277 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

Clangeddin86 wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Drop DA2, work on DA3 for at least 3 years...make an awesome game. Solution.

lol y'know, for once i have to agree, let's not beat a dead on arrival horse bioware, get this dlc done & let's move on

To be honest, I think this game can be "saved" with a very well done expansion that also applies some "backwards" changes to the gameplay of the original game, and that adds at least 20 hours of solid gameplay.
If anything, I'd suggest the drop of DLC development, but from a business perspective I can understand that profit margins are a lot higher with DLCs than with an expansion...

Yeah. Mask of the Betrayer not only added a ton of new content to Neverwinter Nights 2, but also fixed several major issues with the base game (the content was a lot more mature, and you were given an actual ending for the Knight Captain, as oppose to the original 'Rocks fall everyone dies' crap that it had). All that's needed is a campaign that takes Hawke to somewhere interesting, to *do* something interesting. A DLC could provide that if the effort was put in.

[Stardusk78]

JaegerBane wrote...

Clangeddin86 wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Drop DA2, work on DA3 for at least 3 years...make an awesome game. Solution.

lol y'know, for once i have to agree, let's not beat a dead on arrival horse bioware, get this dlc done & let's move on

To be honest, I think this game can be "saved" with a very well done expansion that also applies some "backwards" changes to the gameplay of the original game, and that adds at least 20 hours of solid gameplay.
If anything, I'd suggest the drop of DLC development, but from a business perspective I can understand that profit margins are a lot higher with DLCs than with an expansion...

Yeah. Mask of the Betrayer not only added a ton of new content to Neverwinter Nights 2, but also fixed several major issues with the base game (the content was a lot more mature, and you were given an actual ending for the Knight Captain, as oppose to the original 'Rocks fall everyone dies' crap that it had). All that's needed is a campaign that takes Hawke to somewhere interesting, to *do* something interesting. A DLC could provide that if the effort was put in.

Well, it still would not completely save the game...

[JaegerBane]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Well, it still would not completely save the game...

Not completely, no.... but I'd wager it would make the game a lot more worthwhile. Provided it's done correctly.

(And no, given what I saw in Witch Hunt, I have no confidence whatsoever we'll see an add-on that matches up to Mask of the Betrayer... but one can hope...)

[Stardusk78]

JaegerBane wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Well, it still would not completely save the game...

Not completely, no.... but I'd wager it would make the game a lot more worthwhile. Provided it's done correctly.

(And no, given what I saw in Witch Hunt, I have no confidence whatsoever we'll see an add-on that matches up to Mask of the Betrayer... but one can hope...)

MOTB was very, very awesome, this is true.

[Kail Ashton]

I'd list some of the fallout 3 DLC (or new vegas as an expansion that is somehow confused as a full new game somehow??) point lookout especialy was basicly an expansion in DLC form, it is definetly possible for a DLC to pull it off (with broken steel adding new places in the DC wastes, new enemies and expanding on an already vast world)

Now the problem is: can bioware pull off something similar? i'm going with the zero faith in them crowd on that one, the other problem: ok you added new areas, that doesn't help that the other 99/9% of the game is entirely recycled from the same 5 dungeons

I think a well thought out patch is needed to fix alot of the mess in DA2 (cause charging people to fix a half assed game is riot fuel) i think new dungeons, seasonal/time changes to kirkwall and diversifying enemies in a large patch is the only REAL way to save DA2

Charging pissed off fans for 1 time new stuff DLC isn't going to help anything (i want to say borderlands did a patch like the one i described, but not 100%)

[OdanUrr]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Now the problem is: can bioware pull off something similar? i'm going with the zero faith in them crowd on that one, the other problem: ok you added new areas, that doesn't help that the other 99/9% of the game is entirely recycled from the same 5 dungeons

It's true, no amount of DLC will fix the problems with the original game. They'd just be, "a breath of fresh air."

Kail Ashton wrote...

I think a well thought out patch is needed to fix alot of the mess in DA2 (cause charging people to fix a half assed game is riot fuel) i think new dungeons, seasonal/time changes to kirkwall and diversifying enemies in a large patch is the only REAL way to save DA2

I don't see this happening. First, it would imply a lot of work, a lot of time would have to be put into redesigning locations and NPCs to the point you could say you were working on a DA2.5. Plus, given fan reaction to DA2 so far (it's split, I'll give you that), this patch would have to be free of charge (just imagine fan outcry if it weren't). It's a considerable investment that would see no return other than scoring a few points with the fanbase. Ergo, the cynic in me says it's hardly worth the trouble. The fan/businessman in me says it's worth a shot to garner good will with the fans and restore the company's image.

Kail Ashton wrote...

Charging pissed off fans for 1 time new stuff DLC isn't going to help anything (i want to say borderlands did a patch like the one i described, but not 100%)

I see the Legacy DLC as an experiment of sorts. If it's successful in restoring at least some faith in the franchise (as reflected by number of sales), then we'll probably see more DLC for DA2. If it's not, if it spurs even more vocal opinions, then I say it's likely we've reached the end of the road for DA2. Gloomy, I know, but, hey, as Lord Beckett would say, "it's just good business."

Modifié par OdanUrr, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:05 .

[billy the squid]

Unfortunately DLC doesn't correct any of the deeper game design issues to do with direction that the franchise has taken. I never believed that DLC would correct such problems in the first place, as such I have no intention to buy the DLC which may only add to the game in a largely superficial way by correcting the sloppy recycling and the ridiculous over use of wave combat.

The styalised art direction, limitations to character customisation both PC and companions and many other gripes that people had are still there which is beyond the scope of the DLC to fix.

It might be cynical, but I have little faith in whether EA will consider re examining the direction it has taken, rather it is clear that there is likely to be a continuation in the desire to broaden appeal by over simplification and bastardisation of games genres.

Modifié par billy the squid, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:09 .

[Kail Ashton]

billy the squid wrote...
The styalised art direction, limitations to character customisation both PC and companions and many other gripes that people had are still there which is beyond the scope of the DLC to fix.

It might be cynical, but I have little faith in whether EA will consider re examining the direction it has taken, rather it is clear that there is likely to be a continuation in the desire to broaden appeal by over simplification and bastardisation of games genres.

lol you're right but for all the wrong reasons in quotations, you sound like an old man yelling at those darn kids and their new fangled gadgets

Things change and improve for better of worse, all the bitterness in the world won't change things back to how they used to be, you can plug in your old mac computer and bust out ultima on floppy disk if you can't deal with the changing times, for the rest of us in the present this series needs to move foward still but in the right way

[billy the squid]

And you sound very much like the EA PR machine chattering inanely about "afraid of change"

It has very little to do with new fangled gadgets or innovations, DA2 didn't innovate on much of anything and a lot of what was changed, art direction wise and customisation options, as far as I remember no one complained exessively about or asked for it to be removed entirely. Neither has any one ask for a carbon copy of DAO, so the issue is not one of change, but rather the direction and extent of the changes.

DA2's was, I thought, for the worse, but I take it you enjoyed the more simplified options, overdone combat, the move towards making RPGs for those who don't play them etc? Stylised art was a move away from the supposedly realistic version of the original which is illustative of the whole change in the franchise. DA2 is more akin to an attempt to redirect the IP rather than improve on what was there.

With regards to EA, do you really think that they take notice on what direction you think the game should take? They will assess why people didn't buy it and attempt to shift entirely to a new broader appeal in style or depending on how DA3 performs dump the franchise entirely, as improving on an Origins style game is unlikely considering the company's current approach towards product development, unless that changes.

Modifié par billy the squid, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:54 .

[xkg]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Things change and improve for better of worse, all the bitterness in the world won't change things back to how they used to be, you can plug in your old mac computer and bust out ultima on floppy disk if you can't deal with the changing times, for the rest of us in the present this series needs to move foward still but in the right way

Changes are good indeed - if they improve something.
But you know that DAO was very successful game?

Now comparing DAO success with that of DA2 - you can see the results of  making "changes for the sake of change".

[Kail Ashton]

xkg wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

Things change and improve for better of worse, all the bitterness in the world won't change things back to how they used to be, you can plug in your old mac computer and bust out ultima on floppy disk if you can't deal with the changing times, for the rest of us in the present this series needs to move foward still but in the right way

Changes are good indeed - if they improve something.
But you know that DAO was very successful game?

Now comparing DAO success with that of DA2 - you can see the results of  making "changes for the sake of change".

"but in the right way" as i said, pretty much just summarized what i already said

Now as for me the above you part bout me being a corp shill for not wanting my games to lok like last gen rehashes & menus that don't take 5 hours to sort thru, then i guess i must be one~! oh noes~! oh bily you're grandpa synical indeed, but suppose the truth is never easy to read, rage as you will

[PinkDiamondstl]

This can't be the DLC that I was waiting for.....
I'll buy it anyway but I want the DLC that shows what happens AFTER DA2.

[OdanUrr]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I'll buy it anyway but I want the DLC that shows what happens AFTER DA2.

That one's called DA3.

[billy the squid]

Kail Ashton wrote...

xkg wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

Things change and improve for better of worse, all the bitterness in the world won't change things back to how they used to be, you can plug in your old mac computer and bust out ultima on floppy disk if you can't deal with the changing times, for the rest of us in the present this series needs to move foward still but in the right way

Changes are good indeed - if they improve something.
But you know that DAO was very successful game?

Now comparing DAO success with that of DA2 - you can see the results of  making "changes for the sake of change".

"but in the right way" as i said, pretty much just summarized what i already said

Now as for me the above you part bout me being a corp shill for not wanting my games to lok like last gen rehashes & menus that don't take 5 hours to sort thru, then i guess i must be one~! oh noes~! oh bily you're grandpa synical indeed, but suppose the truth is never easy to read, rage as you will

Oh dear
 
I'm going to repeat this very clearly for you, it is not an issue of stagnation and supposed innovation, it is one of direction and extent of the changes.

Considering EA's modus operandi is to release the same sports game etc. with a few new additions and updates, it has lead to the stagnation that they have allegedly attempted to combat by simply purchasing new IPs through accquisitions. In and of itself this is not bad, as it allows funding for certain projects.

Unfortunately EA's business plan is to appeal to the largest market possible by any means, they are a publicly listed company and, as such, casual revenue is too large a market to ignore. Thus IPs are diluted in an attempt to appeal to the broader market, regardless of the reason the IP originally attracted its consumers.

Regarding issues of graphics, it simply illustrates that you are easily entertained by developers dangling something shiny in front of you, whilst if it took you 5 hours to work through the menu it is either an indictment of the education system or you intelligence. Related, I think you have misinterpreted what a lot people, who had problems with DA2 disliked or disagreed with, particularly if you are under the misapprehension that the stance against DA2 can be attributed simply to rehashing the original. I'd take the time to read things a little more before you make a complete fool out of yourself.

P.S. It is cynical, not synical

Modifié par billy the squid, 10 juillet 2011 - 06:46 .

[PinkDiamondstl]

OdanUrr wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I'll buy it anyway but I want the DLC that shows what happens AFTER DA2.

That one's called DA3.

You know I mean the in between of end of DA2 and 3.

[Morroian]

graavigala85 wrote...

maybe not recycled but it looks as boring and straight forward as it did in DA2, there is one long corridor and thats it, I want huge open areas, I want exploration that makes my head spin, not this goddam awful console ****fest that whole DA2 was!

Bioware games don't have huge open areas. DAO didn't have them.

[MagmaSaiyan]

i dont know why some of you assume there will be no more dlc..(if it fails) i could be wrong and they end up not making more dlcs but why would they decide to stop just after 4 of them, they probably have more in waiting regardless of what happens

[Akka le Vil]

Kail Ashton wrote...

I'd list some of the fallout 3 DLC (or new vegas as an expansion that is somehow confused as a full new game somehow??)

New Vegas is a full new game, where the hell did you get this weird idea it was an expansion ?

[Aaleel]

Morroian wrote...

graavigala85 wrote...

maybe not recycled but it looks as boring and straight forward as it did in DA2, there is one long corridor and thats it, I want huge open areas, I want exploration that makes my head spin, not this goddam awful console ****fest that whole DA2 was!

Bioware games don't have huge open areas. DAO didn't have them.

Well at least in Origins you had areas like the Brecilian Forest, the Cave for the Sacred Ashes, parts of the deep roads where the path branched, you explored one way, had to back track and take the other trail.  Areas you entered that had more than one path leading out of them.  DA2 pretty much all the areas you were just following a linear corridor that never branched off, except to maybe have you walk a few feet to a chest, or a mineral deposit.

Modifié par Aaleel, 10 juillet 2011 - 09:20 .

[Giant ambush beetle]

Morroian wrote...
Bioware games don't have huge open areas. DAO didn't have them.

Go all the way back to the year 1998, BW games had huge open areas back then.  And the Brecilian Forest - it was not huge, but it was large-ish. I'd even say it was bigger then Kirkwall. 

Modifié par The Woldan , 10 juillet 2011 - 09:27 .

[Rxdiaz]

The Woldan wrote...

Morroian wrote...
Bioware games don't have huge open areas. DAO didn't have them.

Go all the way back to the year 1998, BW games had huge open areas back then.  And the Brecilian Forest - it was not huge, but it was large-ish. I'd even say it was bigger then Kirkwall. 

The bathroom in my sisters house seems bigger than Kirkwall....

[graavigala85]

Morroian wrote...

graavigala85 wrote...

maybe not recycled but it looks as boring and straight forward as it did in DA2, there is one long corridor and thats it, I want huge open areas, I want exploration that makes my head spin, not this goddam awful console ****fest that whole DA2 was!

Bioware games don't have huge open areas. DAO didn't have them.

Ostagar from DAO is bigger than DA2s all places put together, think about that

[BrunoB1971]

OdanUrr wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

Now the problem is: can bioware pull off something similar? i'm going with the zero faith in them crowd on that one, the other problem: ok you added new areas, that doesn't help that the other 99/9% of the game is entirely recycled from the same 5 dungeons

It's true, no amount of DLC will fix the problems with the original game. They'd just be, "a breath of fresh air."

Kail Ashton wrote...

I think a well thought out patch is needed to fix alot of the mess in DA2 (cause charging people to fix a half assed game is riot fuel) i think new dungeons, seasonal/time changes to kirkwall and diversifying enemies in a large patch is the only REAL way to save DA2

I don't see this happening. First, it would imply a lot of work, a lot of time would have to be put into redesigning locations and NPCs to the point you could say you were working on a DA2.5. Plus, given fan reaction to DA2 so far (it's split, I'll give you that), this patch would have to be free of charge (just imagine fan outcry if it weren't). It's a considerable investment that would see no return other than scoring a few points with the fanbase. Ergo, the cynic in me says it's hardly worth the trouble. The fan/businessman in me says it's worth a shot to garner good will with the fans and restore the company's image.

Kail Ashton wrote...

Charging pissed off fans for 1 time new stuff DLC isn't going to help anything (i want to say borderlands did a patch like the one i described, but not 100%)

I see the Legacy DLC as an experiment of sorts. If it's successful in restoring at least some faith in the franchise (as reflected by number of sales), then we'll probably see more DLC for DA2. If it's not, if it spurs even more vocal opinions, then I say it's likely we've reached the end of the road for DA2. Gloomy, I know, but, hey, as Lord Beckett would say, "it's just good business."

It is possible to revamp a game after it's release.... a little company called CD projekt did this with a little game called the witcher...and what was great is that they did not charge anyone for it other than the new people who were buying the game after the enhanced edition was out...but for those who already had the game, it was a much appreciated bonus...

but of course this is not gonna happen...because bioware is ----- to EA and EA is all about maximizing return on investment....

[OdanUrr]

BrunoB1971 wrote...

It is possible to revamp a game after it's release.... a little company called CD projekt did this with a little game called the witcher...and what was great is that they did not charge anyone for it other than the new people who were buying the game after the enhanced edition was out...but for those who already had the game, it was a much appreciated bonus...

but of course this is not gonna happen...because bioware is ----- to EA and EA is all about maximizing return on investment....

You know, it's funny, as I was writing that post I was thinking of "The Witcher - Enhanced Edition.":innocent:

Modifié par OdanUrr, 11 juillet 2011 - 01:39 .

[Lord Coake]

OdanUrr wrote...

It's difficult to judge at this point even after having seen the trailer. My impression is that environment design will remain poor but, then again, a deserted prison doesn't lend itself to the kind of visual changes I'm looking for. There's also been some speculation about the gameplay length of the DLC. I've seen people posting it'll total two or so hours, I'd like confirmation of this if possible.

Bottom line is this: This DLC was pushed further in time to address some of the issues that have been discussed at length in these forums since DA2 was released. Which of those issues will it address? If it's indeed a two-hour long DLC, then I doubt it'll be able to successfully show it's taken feedback to heart. And if it doesn't, what does that mean for future DLC?

No amount of "issue adressing" can polish the pile of rancid, steaming excrement that is DA2 into anything worthwhile.