I really hope Bioware didn't just screw up their own lore again. This quote is from the Legacy trailer, presumably from the big bad sealed away in what has been described as a Grey Warden prison.
How would this screw up lore, one might ask? The Grey Wardens were created 1200 years ago, a century into the first blight. Whatever is trapped in there, by lore it shouldn't have been by the magic of any Warden.
"2000 years, the magic holds."
Débuté par
b09boy
, juil. 08 2011 10:34
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#2
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 10:44
Frybread76
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When a certain character from DA:O can come back from the dead in DA2 I don't think Bioware/EA really pays too much attention to internal consistency.
#3
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 10:44
Frybread76
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When a certain character from DA:O can come back from the dead in DA2 I don't think Bioware/EA really pays too much attention to internal consistency.
#4
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 10:46
Blacklash93
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Perhaps the Darkspawn are older than we assume.
That or The Conductor miscounted the years. You tend to lose track of time being trapped underground for so long.
That or The Conductor miscounted the years. You tend to lose track of time being trapped underground for so long.
#5
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 10:47
ademska
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oh hello i think i'll step in here since we're just whining for no reason now
none of us has any idea what the dlc is about. love or hate da2, why not give the professional writer the benefit of the 800-year doubt? if the thing comes out and it sucks or is in direct contradiction, by all means, complain away.
none of us has any idea what the dlc is about. love or hate da2, why not give the professional writer the benefit of the 800-year doubt? if the thing comes out and it sucks or is in direct contradiction, by all means, complain away.
#6
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 10:49
xkg
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Oh cmon - You don't know ? ? ?
It's so obvious - Varric's "The Unreliable Narrator" fault.
It's so obvious - Varric's "The Unreliable Narrator" fault.
Modifié par xkg, 08 juillet 2011 - 10:50 .
#7
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 10:50
Frybread76
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ademska wrote...
oh hello i think i'll step in here since we're just whining for no reason now
none of us has any idea what the dlc is about. love or hate da2, why not give the professional writer the benefit of the 800-year doubt? if the thing comes out and it sucks or is in direct contradiction, by all means, complain away.
If these posts bother you so much why do you read and then post in them?
#8
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 10:55
ademska
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this is the only one that's bothered me and i'm stuck in a place right now.
doesn't negate the validity of my point. the tevinter calendar begins about two hundred years before that '2000 year' mark, and both the hawke and amell lines obviously have magic and thus are likely descended from tevinter magisters. there's no reason this dlc has to coincide with the inception of the wardens, and there's even less reason to believe a professional dev team with an objectively good track record would overlook such a grievous error. there are a few minor inconsistencies and retcons in the immediate timeline (generally borne of ignoring player choices), but i've yet to see anything even approaching that dramatic a mistake.
i, for one, hope this provides more of a legitimate origin for darkspawn beyond, "the chantry says it's the meanie mages' fault."
doesn't negate the validity of my point. the tevinter calendar begins about two hundred years before that '2000 year' mark, and both the hawke and amell lines obviously have magic and thus are likely descended from tevinter magisters. there's no reason this dlc has to coincide with the inception of the wardens, and there's even less reason to believe a professional dev team with an objectively good track record would overlook such a grievous error. there are a few minor inconsistencies and retcons in the immediate timeline (generally borne of ignoring player choices), but i've yet to see anything even approaching that dramatic a mistake.
i, for one, hope this provides more of a legitimate origin for darkspawn beyond, "the chantry says it's the meanie mages' fault."
#9
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:05
CrimsonZephyr
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i, for one, hope this provides more of a legitimate origin for darkspawn beyond, "the chantry says it's the meanie mages' fault."
This, totally this.
The timeline issue bothers me less. The guy has been stuck in magical stasis for a very long time. Did the Grey Wardens provide him with a timepiece and a calendar? No? Those monsters!
#10
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:05
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I doubt the fact that this darkspawn contends he's been held for longer than the darkspawn exist is a simple mistake on the part of the writers.
As far as the Wardens factoring in, I would have to guess he was imprisoned first by someone other than the Wardens, and then the Wardens took over 'guard' duties over the course of time. Or maybe the Wardens were also around for longer than believed. Just because it hasn't been explained to us who haven't even played the DLC yet doesn't mean it won't be explained or doesn't have an explanation.
As far as the Wardens factoring in, I would have to guess he was imprisoned first by someone other than the Wardens, and then the Wardens took over 'guard' duties over the course of time. Or maybe the Wardens were also around for longer than believed. Just because it hasn't been explained to us who haven't even played the DLC yet doesn't mean it won't be explained or doesn't have an explanation.
#11
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:14
lanmao
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Blacklash93 wrote...
Perhaps the Darkspawn are older than we assume.
That or The Conductor miscounted the years. You tend to lose track of time being trapped underground for so long.
Lol yeah like:
The Conductor: I've been locked away for 2000 years!
Hawke: It's been 3 years Steve...
Condutor: Oh...really. You're sure?
Hawke: Positive.
Conductor: Ah well... It's pretty dark down here. My watch died a while back so...uh..yeah...
#12
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:19
b09boy
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ademska wrote...
oh hello i think i'll step in here since we're just whining for no reason now
Really? I thought I explained the reason clear enough. Alright, let me state it again, more slowly this time. Based on the information given this looks to conflict with Dragon Age lore.
none of us has any idea what the dlc is about.
Yes we do. Otherwise I would not have been able to make this topic.
love or hate da2, why not give the professional writer the benefit of the 800-year doubt?
Just because someone's a professional doesn't mean they're good at their job. Not to say Bioware's writing team is bad, but it's not like Bioware's entire writing team was working on this.
doesn't negate the validity of my point. the tevinter calendar begins
about two hundred years before that '2000 year' mark, and both the hawke
and amell lines obviously have magic and thus are likely descended from
tevinter magisters. there's no reason this dlc has to coincide with the
inception of the wardens,
The information given so far has the DLC taking place in a Grey Warden prison and they had trouble with this particular darkspawn. It's been imprisoned for 2000 years by its own words. They've been around for 1200.
and there's even less reason to believe a
professional dev team with an objectively good track record would
overlook such a grievous error.
Just to note, Hepler wrote this DLC.
i,
for one, hope this provides more of a legitimate origin for darkspawn
beyond, "the chantry says it's the meanie mages' fault."
Why? Wouldn't you want it part of something more substantial than what's likely a two hour DLC?
#13
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:24
lanmao
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@b09boy
Maybe the conductor has been imprisoned for 2000 years and the grey wardens at some point took over stewardship. Maybe they didn't originally imprison him.
Maybe the conductor has been imprisoned for 2000 years and the grey wardens at some point took over stewardship. Maybe they didn't originally imprison him.
#14
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:31
b09boy
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Maybe. Though it begs the question of why the prison keeping him is covered in griffons and other Warden-themed emblems and statues.
I shouldn't say that they've without a doubt botched the lore. There could be more to it. Maybe the Wardens found the original prison and built over it. Maybe the conductor is wrong and it'll turn into a comic moment. But, based on the information thus far given, it doesn't look promising.
I shouldn't say that they've without a doubt botched the lore. There could be more to it. Maybe the Wardens found the original prison and built over it. Maybe the conductor is wrong and it'll turn into a comic moment. But, based on the information thus far given, it doesn't look promising.
#15
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:32
ademska
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no, you don't actually have any idea what this dlc is about. you have vague hints from an achievement list, a murky 25-word synopsis preview, and a trailer with some darkspawn in it. there is absolutely no reason whatsoever, given the precedent the da team has set with their lore, to assume you know enough to say they made such a gigantic mistake. plenty of people in this thread, including myself, have put forth both viable explanations and reasons why the info we've been presented is possibly unreliable. don't forget, the codices are almost entirely POV.
yeah, hepler wrote it, but she didn't design and code and quality check everything all by herself, and she does have bosses who take their intellectual property very seriously. fwiw, anders is my bro, so i'm aiight with her at the helm.
like i said, if it comes out and they did **** up massively, i'll be right there with you on the complain train.
and i'd prefer they begin to hint at a real darkspawn origin in the dlc, give us something to speculate on with legitimacy, then elaborate further in a real game/expansion -- or, hell, just hint at it and leave it murky.
yeah, hepler wrote it, but she didn't design and code and quality check everything all by herself, and she does have bosses who take their intellectual property very seriously. fwiw, anders is my bro, so i'm aiight with her at the helm.
like i said, if it comes out and they did **** up massively, i'll be right there with you on the complain train.
and i'd prefer they begin to hint at a real darkspawn origin in the dlc, give us something to speculate on with legitimacy, then elaborate further in a real game/expansion -- or, hell, just hint at it and leave it murky.
#16
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:39
xkg
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b09boy wrote...
Maybe. Though it begs the question of why the prison keeping him is covered in griffons and other Warden-themed emblems and statues.
"The Grey Wardens built this prison to ..."
#17
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:47
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The Kirkwall chantry was built by the dwarves as a hall for some magister lord before it was turned into a Chantry with a friggin gigantic statue of Andraste inside it. It's possible some magisters imprisoned him in some other structure or by some other means, then the Wardens came along and 're-imprisoned' him (due to the 'fading magic' and such) and built the prison we see now.
#18
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:50
xkg
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Ok so this "one of the most powerfull darkspawn" has been imprisoned 2000 years ago.
but according to the LORE this happened 1335 years ago :
"The result is catastrophic, destroying the Golden City and letting the taint into the world, creating the first darkspawn"
but according to the LORE this happened 1335 years ago :
"The result is catastrophic, destroying the Golden City and letting the taint into the world, creating the first darkspawn"
Modifié par xkg, 08 juillet 2011 - 11:51 .
#19
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:51
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According to the Chantry, you mean.
#20
Posté 08 juillet 2011 - 11:56
xkg
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Lmao ok, same ol'BS. Varric is unrelibale - that was before , now - The chantry is unreliable - yeah no point in any discussion.
#21
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:00
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I think you've fundamentally misunderstood how the lore is supposed to work if you think it's clear to anyone how the darkspawn originated.
Anyone in Thedas, I mean.
Anyone in Thedas, I mean.
Modifié par Filament, 09 juillet 2011 - 12:00 .
#22
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:02
Chromie
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ademska wrote...
i, for one, hope this provides more of a legitimate origin for darkspawn beyond, "the chantry says it's the meanie mages' fault."
Well yea that would be great. But Hawke is going into a Warden prison. And we know that they aren't 2000 years old.
#23
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:07
Serpieri Nei
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xkg wrote...
Oh cmon - You don't know ? ? ?
It's so obvious - Varric's "The Unreliable Narrator" fault.
Stop Blaming Varic...or his Chest Hair will get you !!!
#24
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:07
ademska
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no, we know what we've been told.
and it's largely the chantry that's been telling us. y'all are really hung up on this immutable chantry lore thing.
and @xkg, that was my point. there is no way to have a productive discussion because we know nothing.
and it's largely the chantry that's been telling us. y'all are really hung up on this immutable chantry lore thing.
and @xkg, that was my point. there is no way to have a productive discussion because we know nothing.
#25
Posté 09 juillet 2011 - 12:22
b09boy
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ademska wrote...
no, we know what we've been told.
and it's largely the chantry that's been telling us. y'all are really hung up on this immutable chantry lore thing.
and @xkg, that was my point. there is no way to have a productive discussion because we know nothing.
So your whole point is that we should just throw away all established lore as unreliable.
...
Then what is even the point of having lore? Of having a codex? Of the writers writing any of this?
