31 réponses à ce sujet

[arne1234]

When tali romances Shepard she uses antibiotics and immunoboosters to bolster her immune system. However the "infections" that Quarians get is more of a allergic reaction meaning their immune system at least medically spoken isn't weak at all it's yust prone on overreacting, therefore boosting her immune system would only worsen the reactions and make contact even more fatal. What she really needs is a immuno surppressend most likely steroids  this would lower her allergic reaction but make her more prone to a infection, however a infection requires a parasite, more precise a quarian parasite because they have reversed ammino asids (does that mean A-T and G-C are reversed or does this mean left handed DNA ?). So unless she allready had the parasite to begin with or is in a room where there might be Quarian parasites she should be okay.


This bothered me a little

[Lukertin]

Quarian takes off suit next to human, develops infection.

D-amino acid based bacterium infects L-amino acid based lifeform.

Modifié par Lukertin, 08 juillet 2011 - 11:50 .

[Quole]

Lukertin wrote...

Quarian takes off suit next to human, develops infection.

D-amino acid based bacterium infects L-amino acid based lifeform.

That picture makes Miranda look even uglier than she normaly looks. Didnt think that was possible.

[DaveExclamationMarkYognaut]

Basically Bioware hates science and trolls it whenever possible. See also: Asari. Although roid rage would totally explain the whole Tali/Legion catfight.

[arne1234]

It's yust a slip up I'm sure one of these people there is married to a doctor or even a house fan.
Also what's wrong with the asari? Sex/species are good for genetic diversity but it's very energy intesive their are advantages on being a monospecies.

I can think of 2 options on how the Asari pregnancys could work. And why the Asari would prefer dating outside their species.

1 Sex with the Asari simply induces a sort of false pregnancy however because they are monospecies this actually get's them pregnant. This could be a evolutionary reaction so they can have plannend pregnancies. And having a partner could reduce the stress of having a baby.

2 A fetus uses DNA to determine what species it is. This is it's Genotype however their is also the phenotype. In small example if you clonend a black cat the result could actually be a tabby cat, another example is neuroplasticity look it up to see how social interaction can change a human brain. So even if they are clones they could look nothing alike.
So by this phenotype can alter the species both while it's still developing and afther it's born.

3 Remember the Quarians and how their immuno system is so weird because on their homeworld they are actually beneficial. Well it turns out that retro virusses actually do that and over 5% of our own human DNA comes from other species with us it only ends up as junk DNA but with a monosex species they could actually use this to add genetic variation.

So in short:
- Asari prefer to mate outside their species because this will produce a child that is a genetic clone of the mother yet is different because the phenotype.
- This is a one way street a human can not get prgnant from a Asari because humans don't self fertilise.
- A Asari mating with a other Asari works the same way as cross species now however the mother is exposed to the partners germs,fluids and ultimatly retro virusses can find their way into the fetus making a genetically more diverse child.

[T.Attwood]

arne1234 wrote...

When tali romances Shepard she uses antibiotics and immunoboosters to bolster her immune system. However the "infections" that Quarians get is more of a allergic reaction meaning their immune system at least medically spoken isn't weak at all it's yust prone on overreacting, therefore boosting her immune system would only worsen the reactions and make contact even more fatal. What she really needs is a immuno surppressend most likely steroids  this would lower her allergic reaction but make her more prone to a infection, however a infection requires a parasite, more precise a quarian parasite because they have reversed ammino asids (does that mean A-T and G-C are reversed or does this mean left handed DNA ?). So unless she allready had the parasite to begin with or is in a room where there might be Quarian parasites she should be okay.


This bothered me a little

That was an interesting and thought provoking discussion!  

Here is how I read the Quarian immune system problem: They have an absence of immune system because (as the story goes) they have a relationship with the insects on their planet that (I guess) provides or 'acts as' their immune system. Thus, without the presence of these insects to keep bacteria and viruses in check, they will run rampant throughout the body, and kill the host (i.e. Tali!). Viruses are particularly dangerous as (from my understanding) they take over cells within the body and turn them into 'factories' to create more virus cells. Without an immune system to prevent this, the body is quickly destroyed. I think the result is similar to the effect that AIDS virus has in humans, where, it isn't actually AIDS that kills the person, but AIDS destroys your immune system.  So, if you catch (for example) the common cold, it is not kept in check and overwhelms the body. This seems to be the reason why she wears a suit, i.e. to seal herself in a sterile environment, and preventing bacteria from even getting near her.

In the absense of an immune system, I guess 'immune boosters' wont help Tali, as they increase the number of white blood cells, and make them work better. If she cannot produce these cells, boosters will unfortunately have no effect.

( I'm not sure if having 'left handed' DNA is possible because, when cells divide, the double helix of DNA splits down the middle (giving two identical cells) and then each cell duplicates its opposite 'bases' (i.e. A-T, C-G). This is why 'A' always connects with 'T', and 'C' always connects with 'G', so each cell knows how to rebuild itself after dividing).

Edit: It is good that there is a 'science' related thread. I think it is interesting to discuss some of the ideas within Mass Effect, and explore what is possible.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:30 .

[arne1234]

whell left and right handed DNA is a possibility however it wouldn't be toxic. Then again our DNA is made of nucleotides and uses a backbone of sugars and phosphates and it turns out those phosphates could be replaced by aresenate!

This would mean that their is arsenic acid in Quarian and Turian food.

So to humans Q/T food is a acid
and to a Q/T human food is a base.

Both are toxic and will give you chemical burns. This I think could explain it

[V-rex]

EDIT: You know what, different conversation for a different time, I'll just keep it relevant for the time being.

As far as the whole 'allergy' issue goes, I agree with you. I would
have thought anti biotics were a poor choice given the condition. Not
to mention, I don't think it's healthy to take anti-biotics before you
are actually sick.

Modifié par V-rex, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:56 .

[V-rex]

Double post.

Modifié par V-rex, 09 juillet 2011 - 09:57 .

[arne1234]

Now I wonder what happens if you gave anti biotics to a biotic

also anti biotics is yust a generic term of artificial substances that kill or slow the growth of bacteria. So I'm guessing that qualify's it as a immuno booster. Anti biotics with steroids are fine tough, yust keep the steroids in check or else she's going to go Hulk on you.

[Parion]

I'm pretty sure that the immunobosters and antibiotics aren't supposed to deal with her exposure to Shepard as much as they are to protect her against the compatible bacteria in the air.

[BatmanPWNS]

I don't know why people try to make sense in a game that has people develop biotic powers!

[T.Attwood]

arne1234 wrote...
Now I wonder what happens if you gave anti biotics to a biotic
.

That is a quality ME/Medical joke!  I like it!

arne1234 wrote...
also anti biotics is just a generic term of artificial substances that kill or slow the growth of bacteria. So I'm guessing that qualify's it as a immuno booster..

Ah, right. You are counting any kind of substance that would assist in killing foreign organisms within the body. I see where you are coming from now. Yeah, anti-biotics are probably the best course of action.

arne1234 wrote...
 Anti biotics with steroids are fine though, just keep the steroids in check or else she's going to go Hulk on you
.

Maybe!  I guess that as long as she stays away from the 'anabolic' variety (I think there are many types of steroid) then she should be ok.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 09 juillet 2011 - 01:00 .

[T.Attwood]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

I don't know why people try to make sense in a game that has people develop biotic powers!

True, but over the years, I feel that Sci-Fi has always been a source of idea's and inspiration. I think getting people involved in science discussions through fun things like this, is a fun way to expand peoples minds, give them ideas, and to think about the world. I think that one of the reasons why ME is so popular as a scenario, is that although it is fantasy, BW seem to have grounded many of the idea's within the realms of possibility. Remember when you first land on the citadel in ME2, and there are those three soldiers discussing Isaac Newton? If high velocity weapons are developed, the ramifications discussed there are something to think about (in fact, the electromagnetic cannon or 'railgun' is actually being developed and exists. There is one being put on the front of a US warship).
    One of my favourites in ME, is the use of 'Quantum Entanglement' as a method of communication. This solves the problem of using electromagnetic (radio) waves to travel vast distances, to communicate. Radio waves are just too slow. But Quantum Entanglement could be solution to that problem!

[silentassassin264]

Bioware completely dropped the ball on the science when it came to chiral amino acids in the first place. Eating food of opposite chirality would for the most part just taste odd and not be digested or used by the body because we have no enzymes to even use them. They would essentially go straight through the body causing no help or harm. Turian "stuff" would not cause any discomfort for a femshep. Eating the red nuts for Quarians and Turians wouldn't hurt you. And as you mentioned boinking Tali would not be a big deal at all. I suppose they well on other stuff but they totally do not understand chirality.

[arne1234]

quick hypothetical question abouth Quarians say a human female sleeps with a particulairy ****ty Quarian that resently slept with a human male. Can the Quarian make you pregnant.

Reason why: Quarians are (like any other higher animals on their planets) pollinators meaning they can store genetic material of other species and altough they can't use it themselfs they can pass it along

[T.Attwood]

arne1234 wrote...

It's yust a slip up I'm sure one of these people there is married to a doctor or even a house fan.
Also what's wrong with the asari? Sex/species are good for genetic diversity but it's very energy intesive their are advantages on being a monospecies.

I can think of 2 options on how the Asari pregnancys could work. And why the Asari would prefer dating outside their species.

1 Sex with the Asari simply induces a sort of false pregnancy however because they are monospecies this actually get's them pregnant. This could be a evolutionary reaction so they can have plannend pregnancies. And having a partner could reduce the stress of having a baby.

2 A fetus uses DNA to determine what species it is. This is it's Genotype however their is also the phenotype. In small example if you clonend a black cat the result could actually be a tabby cat, another example is neuroplasticity look it up to see how social interaction can change a human brain. So even if they are clones they could look nothing alike.
So by this phenotype can alter the species both while it's still developing and afther it's born.

3 Remember the Quarians and how their immuno system is so weird because on their homeworld they are actually beneficial. Well it turns out that retro virusses actually do that and over 5% of our own human DNA comes from other species with us it only ends up as junk DNA but with a monosex species they could actually use this to add genetic variation.

So in short:
- Asari prefer to mate outside their species because this will produce a child that is a genetic clone of the mother yet is different because the phenotype.
- This is a one way street a human can not get prgnant from a Asari because humans don't self fertilise.
- A Asari mating with a other Asari works the same way as cross species now however the mother is exposed to the partners germs,fluids and ultimatly retro virusses can find their way into the fetus making a genetically more diverse child.

Reading this and thinking about the Asari, isn't there a problem where, if (for example) an Asari mates with humans for the next 10 generations, that their Asari characteristics and traits would diminish over each generation, and 'tend away' from an Asari and towards a 'human'? Wouldn't this mean that their method of preferring to mate 'outside' their race, will eventually wipe themselves out?

Talking of reproduction, (this time for the Quarians), I am sure I heard Tali say in ME1, that they only have one child. Given that it takes two to mate, wouldn't this mean that every generation, the number of Quarian's alive would halve? I think that in order to keep a population static (i.e. not increasing or decreasing), each couple needs to have at least two children (or are my maths wrong)?

Modifié par T.Attwood, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:10 .

[Parion]

arne1234 wrote...

quick hypothetical question abouth Quarians say a human female sleeps with a particulairy ****ty Quarian that resently slept with a human male. Can the Quarian make you pregnant.

Reason why: Quarians are (like any other higher animals on their planets) pollinators meaning they can store genetic material of other species and altough they can't use it themselfs they can pass it along

Doubtful, anymore than a ****ty sterile bisexual human could. Presumably the quarians didn't go around shagging the various flora and fauna of thier world, so it's likely genetic material was transfered via an alternate mechanism.

T.Attwood wrote...

Reading this and thinking about the
Asari, isn't there a problem where, if (for example) an Asari mates with
humans for the next 10 generations, that their Asari characteristics
and traits would diminish over each generation, and 'tend away' from an
Asari and towards a 'human'? Wouldn't this mean that their method of
preferring to mate 'outside' their race, will eventually wipe themselves
out?

Not a problem, as no actual genetic exchange
takes place. Asari offspring are 100% Asari, just with their genetics
"weighted" towards non-physical attributes displayed by thier "father".

Modifié par Parion, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:26 .

[arne1234]

Parion wrote...


Doubtful, anymore than a ****ty sterile bisexual human could. Presumably the quarians didn't go around shagging the various flora and fauna of thier world, so it's likely genetic material was transfered via an alternate mechanism.


Not a problem, as no actual genetic exchange
takes place. Asari offspring are 100% Asari, just with their genetics
"weighted" towards non-physical attributes displayed by thier "father".

Regardles on how they do it their pollinators so they must be equipt to store genetic material that is as diverse as you would expect between a animal and a plant.

non genetic traits are fenotype

[Lukertin]

arne1234 wrote...

whell left and right handed DNA is a possibility however it wouldn't be toxic. Then again our DNA is made of nucleotides and uses a backbone of sugars and phosphates and it turns out those phosphates could be replaced by aresenate!

This would mean that their is arsenic acid in Quarian and Turian food.

No, it doesn't mean that at all.

So to humans Q/T food is a acid
and to a Q/T human food is a base.

Both are toxic and will give you chemical burns. This I think could explain it

????????????????????????????????????//

arne1234 wrote...
quick hypothetical question abouth Quarians say a human female sleeps with a particulairy ****ty Quarian that resently slept with a human male. Can the Quarian make you pregnant.

Sure. It can happen among humans, so why not if a non-human is inserted into the mix?

Modifié par Lukertin, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:58 .

[ThePwener]

Facts+Mass Effect= WUT

You people are debating fiction, nobody ever gets ahead in these discussion. Oh well.... *grabs popcorn*

Modifié par ThePwener, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:01 .

[Lukertin]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Bioware completely dropped the ball on the science when it came to chiral amino acids in the first place. Eating food of opposite chirality would for the most part just taste odd and not be digested or used by the body because we have no enzymes to even use them. They would essentially go straight through the body causing no help or harm. Turian "stuff" would not cause any discomfort for a femshep. Eating the red nuts for Quarians and Turians wouldn't hurt you. And as you mentioned boinking Tali would not be a big deal at all. I suppose they well on other stuff but they totally do not understand chirality.

A number of D-amino acids occur biochemically on Earth, and are present and may have essential functions in our bodies (!).  Science fail on Bioware's part.

Also D-amino acids taste sweet, so if you ate a Quarian or a Turian it might be like eating chocolate.

Modifié par Lukertin, 10 juillet 2011 - 01:06 .

[Nashiktal]

T.Attwood wrote...

arne1234 wrote...

When tali romances Shepard she uses antibiotics and immunoboosters to bolster her immune system. However the "infections" that Quarians get is more of a allergic reaction meaning their immune system at least medically spoken isn't weak at all it's yust prone on overreacting, therefore boosting her immune system would only worsen the reactions and make contact even more fatal. What she really needs is a immuno surppressend most likely steroids  this would lower her allergic reaction but make her more prone to a infection, however a infection requires a parasite, more precise a quarian parasite because they have reversed ammino asids (does that mean A-T and G-C are reversed or does this mean left handed DNA ?). So unless she allready had the parasite to begin with or is in a room where there might be Quarian parasites she should be okay.


This bothered me a little

That was an interesting and thought provoking discussion!  

Here is how I read the Quarian immune system problem: They have an absence of immune system because (as the story goes) they have a relationship with the insects on their planet that (I guess) provides or 'acts as' their immune system. Thus, without the presence of these insects to keep bacteria and viruses in check, they will run rampant throughout the body, and kill the host (i.e. Tali!). Viruses are particularly dangerous as (from my understanding) they take over cells within the body and turn them into 'factories' to create more virus cells. Without an immune system to prevent this, the body is quickly destroyed. I think the result is similar to the effect that AIDS virus has in humans, where, it isn't actually AIDS that kills the person, but AIDS destroys your immune system.  So, if you catch (for example) the common cold, it is not kept in check and overwhelms the body. This seems to be the reason why she wears a suit, i.e. to seal herself in a sterile environment, and preventing bacteria from even getting near her.

In the absense of an immune system, I guess 'immune boosters' wont help Tali, as they increase the number of white blood cells, and make them work better. If she cannot produce these cells, boosters will unfortunately have no effect.

( I'm not sure if having 'left handed' DNA is possible because, when cells divide, the double helix of DNA splits down the middle (giving two identical cells) and then each cell duplicates its opposite 'bases' (i.e. A-T, C-G). This is why 'A' always connects with 'T', and 'C' always connects with 'G', so each cell knows how to rebuild itself after dividing).

Edit: It is good that there is a 'science' related thread. I think it is interesting to discuss some of the ideas within Mass Effect, and explore what is possible.

Couple of things wrong here.

1. Quarians do have immune systems.

2.Quarians immune systems have always been weaker than the average species.

3. There are NO insects on the Quarian home planet.

4. Quarian immune systems were weak because most bacteria/viruses were at least partially beneficial, thus having a weaker immune system is actually an advantage. Couple that with a few hundred years on a sterile ship (and no symbiotic viruses to aid the body) and you get to the sickly Quarians you have today.