Unless Kai Leng is undercover, I can't see how it would work. Shepard would never endanger the mission like that, not when the fate of the galaxy is at stake. He will terminate all conflicts in the bud, and he will eliminate all potential for in-crew disagreements. The teammates have to trust each other to watch their backs in a fight.
Now, with Tali and Legion it could work, if Shepard wants to recruit both nations, and anyway, they're getting along better than other members of their species. At least they want to get along. Shepard would be forced to let them work together. Kai Leng, on the other hand, does not represent humanity. Any other badass could replace him. Unless there's something very crucial about him, he'd be more trouble than he's worth.
Having said that, conflicts are definitely fun, and there's a potential for dramatic entertainment here. Creating a strong unescapable "containment" for the characters is a good challenge for a writer. And Paragon Shepard does work with Cerberus, so nothing's impossible. The problem with Kai Leng as a teammate, of course, would be to give Shepard a sufficiently strong motivation to keep a potentially highly disruptive element on board.
Something similar happened with Jack in ME2. I just wanted to get rid of her. She's a powerful biotic, but we have Samara, so she's not essential. She hacks my ship, speaks about stealing it, fights with my second in command, wants to destroy the organization that sponsors my fight against the Reapers...Can't think of a single reason why Shepard would let her stay on board. She's not very defiant, though - much less so than Tali who throws a hissy fit at the entrance to the Normandy - I wanted to show her to the door that very moment.
I do hope we're allowed to choose our teammates in ME3. I don't mean not recruiting them in the first place - I mean getting rid of them if they get out of hand. Everyone's expendable.
It would be good to have two potential candidates for every position - tank, biotic, technician, assassin, and you can choose who fills this position. This way conversations between then could be different while still restricted by their respected roles.
Kai Leng's involvment in ME3
Débuté par
George-Kinsill
, juil. 09 2011 01:08
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#77
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 06:08
Fiery Phoenix
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We don't *know* that, though. If the ME3 squad mechanics are going to take a new direction as has been implied, then you can expect Thane and others to fill the squadmate role--either temporarily or permanently, depending on the character and circumstances.Saphra Deden wrote...
Thane isn't going to be a squadmate so point 2 is irrelevant. Point 1 is up in the air.
I always assumed the reason Kai Leng wasn't part of the team for ME2 was because he was already in the midst of a mission (i.e. searching for Paul Grayson). Retribution says Cerberus has been searching for Grayson for three years on end and apparently Kai Leng was the one assigned for the task.1136342t54 wrote...
I'm talking about ME2. If Kai Leng could have been a squadmate it would have been during ME2 when Cerberus wasn't trying to kill you.
#78
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 07:27
Seboist
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khordlambert wrote...
Wanting a murderous xenophobic psychopath as a team mate in a team filled to the nines with aliens. Honestly, some of you Cerberus cheerleaders make the Darwin award winners look like underachievers in bad decisions.
As opposed to Shepard expecting a Krogan super soldier who hates Turians to work alongside Garrus or Tali who's bitter about her ancestors being butchered and driven into exile by the Geth to work with Legion?
Modifié par Seboist, 10 juillet 2011 - 07:27 .
#79
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 07:30
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laecraft wrote...
Unless Kai Leng is undercover, I can't see how it would work. Shepard would never endanger the mission like that...
LOL!!!!
You mean like that time he recruited a mysterious krogan bounty hunter? Or the time he recruited a freaking geth? Or that time he recruited two psychopathic killers, an assassin, and a warrior monk? The time he recruited that vat grown krogan programmed to hate certain aliens?
That Shepard?
#80
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 07:43
CrookedAsylum
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I love it when people conveniently forget that Shepard is, perhaps, the biggest and most idiotic sociopath in the galaxy.
#81
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 09:35
Sjaddix
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Sociopaths make good super soldiers. They don't feel bad about killing.
Honestly few things more dangerous then a genius sociopath.
Honestly few things more dangerous then a genius sociopath.
#82
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Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:01
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Saphra Deden wrote...
laecraft wrote...
Unless Kai Leng is undercover, I can't see how it would work. Shepard would never endanger the mission like that...
LOL!!!!
You mean like that time he recruited a mysterious krogan bounty hunter? Or the time he recruited a freaking geth? Or that time he recruited two psychopathic killers, an assassin, and a warrior monk? The time he recruited that vat grown krogan programmed to hate certain aliens?
That Shepard?
Well, he ensures that there are no conflicts, doesn't he? He questions Grunt about his feelings for Garrus, and each time a conflict arises on the ship he is quick to resolve it. He can ask questions of the crew, and all of them confirm that they're in for the mission and have no problems working with each other. None of them are constantly antagonistic. If this is some kind of an ongoing thing, with the teammate being openly hostile to rest of the crew, Shepard isn't going to just let it steam, to be exploded at the odd moment. And if there's no open, constant conflict, then I don't see what's the point of having an antagonistic crew member.
It was a part of disappointment in ME2. So much potential conflicts in the crew, and so little comes out of that setup. We only get, what - two little scenes? I guess you can't have both - if all the conflicts were constantly explored, Shepard would be spending most of his time pacifying his crew.
Make no mistake, a cold-blooded killer, who would be considered dangerous by the rest of the society, would fit just fine with Shepard's crew. But only if he's willing to work with them, and to follow Shepard's orders. If he openly hates everyone and cannot wait to stab them in the back, it's a different story.
I must say that one of Shepard's most remarkable traits is being able to unite the motley crew such as the one he had in ME2 and make them work towards the common goal, without them murdering each other. Still, it would've been impossible if they weren't willing to work together under his command. And I have to wonder about Kai Leng. There's a difference between a dangerous ally and an open enemy.
It's one of the reasons why I can't fathom Shepard's reasons to have VS in his crew. VS made it pretty clear where they stand with Shepard and where their loyalties lie.
Mind you, I agree with you that having Kai Leng in the crew would be immense fun. I just wish they'd provide Shepard with a good enough reason to take such a risk. If Kai Leng tells Shepard "I have no problem working with the aliens, and if you ask me to kiss a turian, I'd ask which cheek," I'm going to give him a stare of disbelief. Of course, Shepard doesn't know about him what we know, but I hope everything's made clear in the game...if Kai Leng is even there.
Modifié par laecraft, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:22 .
#83
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Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:24
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laecraft wrote...
Well, he ensures that there are no conflicts, doesn't he?
No, the conflicts arise and Shepard deals with them. He could do the same with Mr. Leng. It would be fun to watch.
EDIT
As for why he'd take Kai Leng... it could be any number of reasons. Use your imagination.
I'll give an example though: Kai Leng approaches Shepard and warns him of Cerberus' hostility, insisting that he has refused to follow the Illusive Man. He could provide critical intel periodically that Shepard needs. Of-course one would be wary of trusting him, but it might be the only option available from Shepard's perspective.
Could make for some nice tension, especially when things come to a head and Leng has to decide where is loyalties lie.
Modifié par Saphra Deden, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:26 .
#84
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:25
Sjaddix
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Well the VS is fine seeing as Anderson reinstated u and working for Cerberus is no longer a viable option.
#85
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Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:33
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Saphra Deden wrote...
laecraft wrote...
Well, he ensures that there are no conflicts, doesn't he?
No, the conflicts arise and Shepard deals with them. He could do the same with Mr. Leng. It would be fun to watch.
EDIT
As for why he'd take Kai Leng... it could be any number of reasons. Use your imagination.
I'll give an example though: Kai Leng approaches Shepard and warns him of Cerberus' hostility, insisting that he has refused to follow the Illusive Man. He could provide critical intel periodically that Shepard needs. Of-course one would be wary of trusting him, but it might be the only option available from Shepard's perspective.
Could make for some nice tension, especially when things come to a head and Leng has to decide where is loyalties lie.
Your example just makes me certain that Kai Leng is a double agent. I have a sudden, strong urge to place him in a remote station, supply him with one of SB's agents, and take reports from him using a holographic image.
But it's true that if Shepard accepts him on the Normandy under these pretenses, it would provide a hell of a tension. I can easily see Shepard not trusting Leng whasoever, but taking him along just the same for the intel that's going to be at least partically true. And the rest of the crew would just treat their guest as an open enemy.
I like this. Shepard could make Leng's time on the Normandy into a living hell, or he could make this tolerable. It would definitely be fun.
I just hope that should any conflicts between Leng and the crew arise, it wouldn't be on the battlefield, during the crucial moment, forcing me to shoot someone to settle the conflict down. On the other hand, maybe that's exactly what I'm hoping for.
I admit that my imagination fails me in the total informational vacuum.
#86
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 10:48
Seboist
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If Shepard can trust Zaeed after punching him, shoving a gun in his face and costing him 20 years of trying to get revenge then he can pretty well trust Kai Leng.
Modifié par Seboist, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:48 .
#87
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 01:13
naledgeborn
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Kai Leng's role? Calo Nord/Darth Bandon.
#88
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Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 01:21
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I still think Kei Leng will become a squad member option after a fight or whatever. Kei Leng will replace Thane and i'm 75% sure.
#89
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 08:11
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Imperium Alpha wrote...
I still think Kei Leng will become a squad member option after a fight or whatever. Kei Leng will replace Thane and i'm 75% sure.
That would be incredibly pointless. Unless Kai Leng's xenophobic tendencies can be calmed for long term team work then maybe. Hell if shepard is going out with Liara or Garrus then Kai Leng end up trying to kill him off the bat.
Seriously none of your squad members are that xenophobic. Even Grunt wouldn't really kill Garrus. He respects strength, power and the ability to use it. As long as Garrus is with Shepard and Shepard is Grunt's battlemaster the Krogan is ok. Kai Leng would likely not have that same respect for Shepard. Sure Shep has saved the galaxy a few times but depending on how you saved it and your relationships with certain characters it wouldn't be easy to get him to work with you.
Might as well make him a villain or someone similar to Saren in ability. Making him a squad member is kind of a waste in someways.
#90
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 09:32
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Well if the mission is use Aliens to save Earth (ie humanity), I am sure even Leng can tone down his rampant xenophobia enough to work with Aliens. Now after Earth is saved all bets are off.
#91
Posté 10 juillet 2011 - 09:57
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Sjaddix wrote...
Well if the mission is use Aliens to save Earth (ie humanity), I am sure even Leng can tone down his rampant xenophobia enough to work with Aliens. Now after Earth is saved all bets are off.
Thats the thing. It can work with someone like Samara since she can like you and even be loyal to you but still kill you. Kai Leng would likewise not be loyal to Shepard and we all know what happens when you have disloyal party members.
#92
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 12:47
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For better or for worse, I think Kei Lang is being brought in as a Saren type villain, something that was lacking in ME2.
#93
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Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 12:56
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1136342t54 wrote...
That would be incredibly pointless. Unless Kai Leng's xenophobic tendencies can be calmed for long term team work then maybe.
He's not a throffing at the mouth racist, you know. If he's near aliens he doesn't freak out and kill them. He doesn't like them, but he tolerates them when he needs to.
#94
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 02:12
George-Kinsill
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Saphra Deden wrote...
1136342t54 wrote...
That would be incredibly pointless. Unless Kai Leng's xenophobic tendencies can be calmed for long term team work then maybe.
He's not a throffing at the mouth racist, you know. If he's near aliens he doesn't freak out and kill them. He doesn't like them, but he tolerates them when he needs to.
Yep, seemed perfectly fine working with the all Turian gang on Omega, th eTalons, and he only killed Aria's daughter because she was immobile and an ally of Grayson's, so why not? There will be conflicts if he is a crew member, but if Jack can show enough restraint to not kill all the cerberus operatives on the Normandy, then Kai Leng can easily wait till after the Reapers are dead to kill a few aliens, if at all.
#95
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 02:27
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I don't really like him as a squad member because
1) His character is pretty set in his xenophobic ways and he is extreme about it and is a Cerberus loyalist worst than Miranda. I want him to stay that way so his character can be explored and we may come to hate him but empathize for what made him like that. He would be a good villain because of that.
2) I'm tired of extra psychotic party members. Jack is a good character and Grunt is but we already grabbed them. We don't need another loyalty mission for him since him changing his ways is pretty unlikely.
3) I don't want Harbinger again. Harbi isn't bad really its just I miss Saren as an actual Villain I could sympathize with and Kai Leng could be that villain. Either that or we get no real explanation for his hate on for aliens and we just can't wait to kill him. For now I can't wait to kill him but Bioware can put some reasons in there for us to understand why he is like that.
4) Loyalty to Shepard may be a problem. The main reason why Miranda actually quit Cerberus is because she understood the problems with keeping the base. Personally Kai Leng doesn't seem the type to betray TIM like that. He could be a good party member up to a certain point where Shepard will likely make a decision that would conflict with Cerberus interests. Remember Cerberus IS humanity to TIM.
1) His character is pretty set in his xenophobic ways and he is extreme about it and is a Cerberus loyalist worst than Miranda. I want him to stay that way so his character can be explored and we may come to hate him but empathize for what made him like that. He would be a good villain because of that.
2) I'm tired of extra psychotic party members. Jack is a good character and Grunt is but we already grabbed them. We don't need another loyalty mission for him since him changing his ways is pretty unlikely.
3) I don't want Harbinger again. Harbi isn't bad really its just I miss Saren as an actual Villain I could sympathize with and Kai Leng could be that villain. Either that or we get no real explanation for his hate on for aliens and we just can't wait to kill him. For now I can't wait to kill him but Bioware can put some reasons in there for us to understand why he is like that.
4) Loyalty to Shepard may be a problem. The main reason why Miranda actually quit Cerberus is because she understood the problems with keeping the base. Personally Kai Leng doesn't seem the type to betray TIM like that. He could be a good party member up to a certain point where Shepard will likely make a decision that would conflict with Cerberus interests. Remember Cerberus IS humanity to TIM.
#96
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 02:31
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1136342t54 wrote...
I don't really like him as a squad member because...
Sure, but I disagree. He'd be a fun squadmate. Miranda's betrayal of Cerberus never really made sense in the first place. It's one of the worse parts about the ending.
#97
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 03:15
1136342t54_
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Saphra Deden wrote...
1136342t54 wrote...
I don't really like him as a squad member because...
Sure, but I disagree. He'd be a fun squadmate. Miranda's betrayal of Cerberus never really made sense in the first place. It's one of the worse parts about the ending.
Well not really. Miranda seems smart enough to know when your going to far. At that point she likely knows the risks of dealing with a Collector base. Hell I doubt she really would have wanted to research the Reaper ship. More than likely she would have destroyed it.
#98
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:24
KainrycKarr
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MisterJB wrote...
He punched and the Yahg punched back. Then they pushed each other.1136342t54 wrote...
Shepard fought a Yahg in close quarters and it wasn't actually one sided at all.
Don't compare that to actually being good at hand to hand fighting.Also Shepard has very similar training to Kai Leng. Remember they were both N7.
True but it's entirely possible that Shepard didn't do so well in unarmed combat as Leng.
Sorry, what?Hell knocking out a Krogan Battlemaster in one strike beats killing one random Krogan.
You're refering to when Shepard knocks out Wrex?
Well, we know that Shepard has insane strength. Punching out two fully armored guards proves it.
But it's Shepard's strength versus Leng's speed and skill and it's possible that Leng has enhanced strength now as well. My money's on Leng.
Nothing has given us reason to doubt Shepard's unarmed skill.
Leng would put up a fight, but let's be real here; bareknuckle knockouts on fully armored guards, toe to toe with a yahg, knocking out wrex, headbutting a krogan.
Even assuming Leng had the speed, Shepard is basically a cyborg tank. Leng doesn't have the advantage, might even have a disadvantage.
#99
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:56
khordlambert
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Sjaddix wrote...
Well if the mission is use Aliens to save Earth (ie humanity), I am sure even Leng can tone down his rampant xenophobia enough to work with Aliens. Now after Earth is saved all bets are off.
Are you kidding? He can't even keep it under control for one kidnapping mission! What chance would he have on a ship full of aliens, possibly with one sleeping with Shepard!?
#100
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 08:09
ThePwener
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Kai Leng will obviously be ordered to hunt Shepard down (solo) as he is treated as an assassin at times by TIM.
I hope for an N7 one-on-one battle versus the two most dangerous individuals to ever come out of the N7 academy.
I hope for an N7 one-on-one battle versus the two most dangerous individuals to ever come out of the N7 academy.
