100 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

The Mother is a ghoul, not a Darkspawn.


Broodmothers are women who were taken captive and made to be a ghoul that churns out more Darkspawn. The Architect tells you that he attempted his Joining on her and it failed, calling her his "most flawed creation"

[TEWR]

I doubt it's Malcolm. This guy seems ancient, his armor is incredibly rusted.

[lanmao]

The Conductor is Hawk's father. Leandra had incredibly bad taste in men.

[Sajuro]

lanmao wrote...

The Conductor is Hawk's father. Leandra had incredibly bad taste in men.

Well the second isn't exactly a secret

[Obadiah]

Something trapped for 2000 years means it was imprisoned before Andraste and before the first Blight, which is when the Grey Wardens are first supposed to have appeared. Sounds like we finally get some clues on what the origins of the darkspawn are (hope it's nuthin dumb).

[Foolsfolly]

Sounds like we finally get some clues on what the origins of the darkspawn are (hope it's nuthin dumb).

You just know it's going to be chopped full of fail!

Nah, I'm sure it'll be fine. There's no way it's worse than the Tevinters Corrupted Heaven thing is. Darkspawn come from underneath, not from the sky.

[TEWR]

There's more evidence to point to the Dwarves being the reason than the Magisters.



Also, the reason for the Darkspawn should be obvious.


Enchantment!

[Foolsfolly]

It relies on there being a Maker and I just don't believe there is one. I don't believe in the Chant (nor the Elven Gods...although I believe in the Old Gods...archdemons and OGB kind of force you to admit they exist).

Point is. Them corrupting Heaven and being turned into monsters just doesn't play well with me.

Now, if there was some experiment with the Fade and it resulted in the darkspawn...still don't buy it.

Why? The way they work doesn't strike me as an accident. The fact that they're plague bearers, which turns everything into ghouls and twists and chokes the land. The fact that they spread by ghoul-ing females which then produce hundreds if not thousands of Darkspawn each.

It feels weaponized. It feels deliberate. It feels like whoever created the darkspawn (and I know someone did) did it on purpose to destroy. They're the perfect biological weapon.

....and they're aimed at the Old Gods. They feel the calling of the Old Gods and seek them out. Where they corrupt them.

I just don't buy this whole 'The Maker punishes us with darkspawn, Blights, and silence' thing. Nor do I see any connection with the darkspawn and the Fade. They're mindless, thus don't dream. They do have magic which is interesting (there's even genlock mages which is even more interesting).

If Legacy is about the Hawke family and the origin of the darkspawn then there's an awful lot of things that need to be cleared up.

[Foolsfolly]

If they only reproduce by making other races into Broodmothers than it's not some kind of immortality spell. If the Blights are not stopped everything in the world dies. The grass dies, the world rots, and those who aren't eaten or slaughtered become crazed ghouls.

That isn't much of a future. If the Old Gods created the darkspawn for immortality (never mind that they're seemingly still alive now...well those who didn't become Archdemons) then it's a facepalm of an origin.

For me, at least.

[HSHAW]

@Foolsfolly don't forget that they somehow know how to dig, how to forge and use weapons/armour. they're mindless creatures that somehow have innate knowledge of skills that are useful for finding the old gods and killing things. Your created as a biological weapon theory may be accurate....

[devilsgrin]

Rifneno wrote...

HSHAW wrote...

Tails_Night wrote...

INteresting theory, or maybe the warden and hawke share a common ancestor... who (besides flemeth) knows?
BUt It actually makes sense when you pair a lot of the information in the coexes up.

Considering the multiple origins of the warden this is highly unlikely.

Not really.  We know that the human mage origin is definitely related (and fairly closely at that) to Hawke.  Couslands would be easy to connect if they wanted to.  Elves... well, it's not a pleasant thought but humans rape elves all the time.  If the half-elf stayed with the clan or in the alienage, I'm sure their descendants would get the ears back as their blood became more and more diluted with elven blood.  The dwarven origins would be the only ones that *might* be a stretch, but since all it takes to connect is a drunken one night stand (and "drunken" is redundant when speaking of dwarves) across countless generations, it's certainly feasible.

I'm thinking the dark Hawke family secret involves Carver and a Lothering farm, but that's just me.  ...  Okay, seriously though, what are the odds Malcolm is alive?  Like 50/50?

No, there is no chance to this being true for anything BUT a human origin. be it Amell or Cousland. 
Simply put. There are NO HALF-ELVES IN THE DRAGON AGE UNIVERSE. There are Elf-Blooded HUMANS, but no Half Elves. It has been stated MANY times, that the child of an Elf and a Human is a Human. His features may be finer and he may be shorter than average, but in EVERY way he is a human. The utterly mutable nature of the elves (in general - see their lost immortality) and their genes (see the non-existance of half-elves) precludes any sort of genetic throwback to an elvish ancestor.  
Quick aside - most famous Elf-Blooded Human in Thedas - Alistair... Son of Marric, and Fiona the Elven Grey Warden Mage (theorised at least due to extremely telling hints in The Calling, but i believe it more than Sebastian and Leliana believe in The Maker).

[Foolsfolly]

HSHAW wrote...

@Foolsfolly don't forget that they somehow know how to dig, how to forge and use weapons/armour. they're mindless creatures that somehow have innate knowledge of skills that are useful for finding the old gods and killing things. Your created as a biological weapon theory may be accurate....

If they were just infectious monsters that created broodmothers to spawn more infectious forms...then it's a horrible evil virus. That could be natural in a world with magic, elves, dwarves, and werewolves.

The fact that they have no soul (thus the Archdemon can inhabit any body), no mind, yet have some resembling a hive mind, can forge, build, and dig all in the effort to find Old Gods....

I mean, that's too well done. That's too unstoppable. That's some powerful blood magic (no doubt it's blood magic in origin since darkspawn blood turns people into ghouls, kills them, and when mixed with lyrium give people powers).

It has to be a weapon. That's what I've thought since I first beat Origins. They NEED war to fuel their numbers, thanks to Broodmothers. They need to find and corrupt Old Gods to gain a mind and purpose. They kill and spread diease by their very existence. And once they have an Archdemon that Archdemon cannot die. It just jumps body to body, and the darkspawn are conviently created as empty vessels to allow for this.

That cannot be natural.

Filament wrote...

For immortality and to escape their imprisonment underground. And like I said, it may not have worked as intended.

Of
course we also don't know that they wouldn't cull humans if they did
achieve total domination for the sake of their own reproduction, if they
even needed to. Or if a tainted world looks dismal to those who are
tainted. If they're some kind of Fade spirit in nature, it's hard to
tell what is their sustenance exactly.

I would accept them being a spell that didn't work out properly.....if it's a well told story. Otherwise, having the darkspawn be simply an accident is boring to me.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:23 .

[HSHAW]

@Foolsfolly You should probably organise your thoughts on this matter and make your own thread about it (with blackjack! and hookers!). A few interesting things about darkspawn taint:

It grows more potent over time

it even kills bacteria so corpses in tainted areas do not decay

it is linked to the black city (and possibly to the "kings in the black" that Hybris mentions.)

Modifié par HSHAW, 10 juillet 2011 - 11:50 .

[Rifneno]

Obadiah wrote...

Something trapped for 2000 years means it was imprisoned before Andraste and before the first Blight, which is when the Grey Wardens are first supposed to have appeared. Sounds like we finally get some clues on what the origins of the darkspawn are (hope it's nuthin dumb).

Keep in mind, we thought we were going to get some answers during Witch Hunt too.

Filament wrote...

I don't see what's so farfetched about the notion that the taint might have been accidentally created in experiments regarding the Fade done by the most powerful magisters to ever have existed.

I think it's the "they corrupted heaven!" bit that makes most people facepalm. The Chantry is giving us a fairy tale telling us it's all because of man's greed so there's a grand moral lesson. Those kind of stories are rarely rooted in fact. People spent centuries looking for Atlantis because Plato gave us a similar moral story.

Filament wrote...

I don't see that there's really 'evidence' for any of these theories, just a lot of conjecture. Same with Flemeth being Andraste and the Dumat OGB.

Right. It's a total coincidence that Andraste with her mysterious superpowers appears as an adult 26 years after the Dumat archdemon was finally slain.

Foolsfolly wrote...

It relies on there being a Maker and I just don't believe there is one. I don't believe in the Chant (nor the Elven Gods...although I believe in the Old Gods...archdemons and OGB kind of force you to admit they exist).

Actually the elven gods are real. Or at least Fen'Harel is. There's a codex you can get in the Black Emporium about this strange artifact. It produces images and a caption in an "unknown language." And it pumps them out at a staggering rate. No one has any idea who or what is sending the messages. The codex mentions a few of the images and the captions with them. The captions are actually plain old English just in code. Reversified and in a Ceasar cipher (26 to the left, if I remember right). One of the captions mentions Fen'Harel watching... an eclipse? I forget, what's the difference, the important part is Fen'Harel was watching it. The focus of the images seems to be in present day, as one of them is about the codex writer's wife. Who is cheating on him, and whatever force is sending the messages thinks the guy is a fool. Lulz?

As for the old gods, one question is left unanswered and for some reason I've never seen it asked. If the Maker isn't real... what imprisoned them?

devilsgrin wrote...

No, there is no chance to this being true for anything BUT a human origin. be it Amell or Cousland. 
Simply put. There are NO HALF-ELVES IN THE DRAGON AGE UNIVERSE. There are Elf-Blooded HUMANS, but no Half Elves. It has been stated MANY times, that the child of an Elf and a Human is a Human. His features may be finer and he may be shorter than average, but in EVERY way he is a human. The utterly mutable nature of the elves (in general - see their lost immortality) and their genes (see the non-existance of half-elves) precludes any sort of genetic throwback to an elvish ancestor.  
Quick aside - most famous Elf-Blooded Human in Thedas - Alistair... Son of Marric, and Fiona the Elven Grey Warden Mage (theorised at least due to extremely telling hints in The Calling, but i believe it more than Sebastian and Leliana believe in The Maker).

I don't suppose you read the part where I addressed that and noted if they stayed with elves it would become more and more diluted? If it's only 10 generations back, they'd be less than 0.05% human. You'll have to forgive me if I have my doubts 99.95% elven/0.05% human DNA would look human. And that's only 10 generations, which could be as little as a couple hundred years back.

Foolsfolly wrote...

If they were just infectious monsters that created broodmothers to spawn more infectious forms...then it's a horrible evil virus. That could be natural in a world with magic, elves, dwarves, and werewolves.

The fact that they have no soul (thus the Archdemon can inhabit any body), no mind, yet have some resembling a hive mind, can forge, build, and dig all in the effort to find Old Gods....

I mean, that's too well done. That's too unstoppable. That's some powerful blood magic (no doubt it's blood magic in origin since darkspawn blood turns people into ghouls, kills them, and when mixed with lyrium give people powers).

It has to be a weapon. That's what I've thought since I first beat Origins. They NEED war to fuel their numbers, thanks to Broodmothers. They need to find and corrupt Old Gods to gain a mind and purpose. They kill and spread diease by their very existence. And once they have an Archdemon that Archdemon cannot die. It just jumps body to body, and the darkspawn are conviently created as empty vessels to allow for this.

That cannot be natural.

****in' Reapers!

Seriously though, that's a pretty solid theory there. Kudos.

[devilsgrin]

[quote]Rifneno wrote...
I don't suppose you read the part where I addressed that and noted if they stayed with elves it would become more and more diluted? If it's only 10 generations back, they'd be less than 0.05% human. You'll have to forgive me if I have my doubts 99.95% elven/0.05% human DNA would look human. And that's only 10 generations, which could be as little as a couple hundred years back.
/quote]

I did in fact read where you addressed the issue. However, what your missing is that the child of an Elf and Human, is NOT a half-elf. He or She is a HUMAN. And ONLY a human.
To use another BioWare example... the Asari. The other partner is almost irrevelevent, its only the Asari that matters in their reproduction, and ONLY an Asari is born. For elves its the opposite. Whether father or mother, the elf is irrelevent in determining what is born, as its always - with a human at least - a Human. (we have no real information regarding elf-dwarf offspring, but considering elven nature, anything less that a Dwarf would be a surprise).
The elves lost all of their racial traits (aside from the ears and height, and a human shared propensity for magic) within a very short timespan once humans came into SOCIAL contact with them, let alone reproductive contact. They're genetic structure must be very different from a human genome. My guess would be its due to some sort of lack of genetic diversity amongst elves which weakens it to the point where a human, with a much higher rate of diversity has complete genetic dominance over the elven. Meaning that no matter how many times an elf-blooded human re-breeds the elf into their bloodline, they will not become elves again... they are forever human. 

Modifié par devilsgrin, 10 juillet 2011 - 12:30 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why can't Darkspawn originate from Magisters entering the Golden City/Black City? No one has ever ventured there, even the spirits of the Fade avoid that place. It may not be the Maker who created the Darkspawn, but the Black City itself, can be involved.

[HSHAW]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why can't Darkspawn originate from Magisters entering the Golden City/Black City? No one has ever ventured there, even the spirits of the Fade avoid that place. It may not be the Maker who created the Darkspawn, but the Black City itself, can be involved.

The Conductor (another intelligent darkspawn) being in thedas a few hundred years before the magisters went near the black city makes it unlikely that the darkspawn are the magisters' fault.

[Rifneno]

devilsgrin wrote...

I did in fact read where you addressed the issue. However, what your missing is that the child of an Elf and Human, is NOT a half-elf. He or She is a HUMAN. And ONLY a human.
To use another BioWare example... the Asari. The other partner is almost irrevelevent, its only the Asari that matters in their reproduction, and ONLY an Asari is born. For elves its the opposite. Whether father or mother, the elf is irrelevent in determining what is born, as its always - with a human at least - a Human. (we have no real information regarding elf-dwarf offspring, but considering elven nature, anything less that a Dwarf would be a surprise).
The elves lost all of their racial traits (aside from the ears and height, and a human shared propensity for magic) within a very short timespan once humans came into SOCIAL contact with them, let alone reproductive contact. They're genetic structure must be very different from a human genome. My guess would be its due to some sort of lack of genetic diversity amongst elves which weakens it to the point where a human, with a much higher rate of diversity has complete genetic dominance over the elven. Meaning that no matter how many times an elf-blooded human re-breeds the elf into their bloodline, they will not become elves again... they are forever human.

And you're getting this where? Unless a dev specifically stated it, and stated it with as much vehemency as you (i.e. that NO elven DNA remains not just that half elf and half human children appear human), I don't buy it. There's no way reliable information on such a topic exists in-game.

[EmperorSahlertz]

IIRC the devs have, quite literally, told us that the offspring of an elf and a human is always human.

[EmperorSahlertz]

HSHAW wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why can't Darkspawn originate from Magisters entering the Golden City/Black City? No one has ever ventured there, even the spirits of the Fade avoid that place. It may not be the Maker who created the Darkspawn, but the Black City itself, can be involved.

The Conductor (another intelligent darkspawn) being in thedas a few hundred years before the magisters went near the black city makes it unlikely that the darkspawn are the magisters' fault.

Do we have a date for when the Magisters did their experiment? If they only were a handful of magisters who entered, it would also only be a handful of Darkspawn being created originally, which would account for the delay before they attacked Tevinter. They'd also have to find Dumat first.