128 réponses à ce sujet

[0x30A88]

To name a few issues.

- Clumsy installation and it seems rather hard to migrate a project.
- Lightmapper is full of bugs. Also that we're forced to export a map to single player and copy it is unecessary.
- Scripting could have been more object oriented and more thoroughly documented.
- Using sound in cutscenes is really complicated.
- 2DA/M2DA system.
- Adding a new weapon variation is a day's work.
- The whole thing being up to the community to research.

Had I been a tools programmer, I would be ashamed.

Modifié par Gisle Aune, 30 juillet 2011 - 11:05 .

[Elvhen Veluthil]

mouser9169 wrote...

I'm thinking Dragon Age d20, but I'll have to see what can be done.

That would be interesting. I suppose the team that is developing Baldur's Gate:Redux may have done some work in that direction, you could check with them.

[Mooglator]

Someone mention BGRedux?

We haven't been able to force DA:O to use D&D rules, we're just working around the Origins ones. It may be possible to change it, but it may be hard coded into the game, in which case doing so would be pretty much impossible

[-Semper-]

mouser9169 wrote...

I'm thinking Dragon Age d20, but I'll have to see what can be done.

the easier way around would be a recreation of da:o within the nwn2 engine. far less dead ends^^

[CID-78]

well if it wasn't for the hardcoded GUI i would say that DA:O is better if your not afraid of all the extra work. It's certainly easier to do it in NWN2 but if there is any aspect of the game code you don't like it's harder to fix in NWN2. there is very little hardcode in DA:O.

[mouser9169]

Mooglator wrote...

Someone mention BGRedux?

We haven't been able to force DA:O to use D&D rules, we're just working around the Origins ones. It may be possible to change it, but it may be hard coded into the game, in which case doing so would be pretty much impossible

Well, I'm still in the process of studying the code base, going through each header file and checking functions, etc...

What I've seen so far looks promising - but still way too early for any promises or guarantees. As far as recreating DA:O in NVN 2 (or even NVN), that would certainly be possible to a point, but not my bag of tea - that's much more a modeling and layout task.

My secret sinister purpose is to see if I can wrap my head around gaming code, then license an engine (C4 looks pretty good, and I know Torchlight was made with Ogre) and see what I can do (at that point obviously I'd need to hire a modeler or learn that part of the design process).

I don't have "source code access" with Dragon Age, but damn it's close, at least in some areas. Much, much closer than I even expected going in.  Close enough for me to dig in and get my hands dirty, which is really all I'm looking for at this point.

[CID-78]

the game mechanics doesn't make the game. (they can't be bad or the game will suck.) if you pick up a pnp adventure you would see that you would beable to play it with any ruleset aslong as you have a good DM. the same can be said with game modding. You simply adapt. Who says that BG can't be more fun without the D&D ruleset? or some hybrid between the both?

[Shallina]

I don't know why anyone would want to redo DAO in NWN2.

Redoing a DnD game in NWN2 sure sound tastefull. But DAO is an other beast with it's own strenght and default that aren't the same at all than NWN2.

If you do something in NWN2 I think it's better to focus on NWN2 strenght, same with DAO do things with DAO that can't be done with NWN2, and do tings with NWN2 that can't be done with DAO.

Modifié par Shallina, 30 juillet 2011 - 10:33 .

[CID-78]

Shallina wrote...

I don't know why anyone would want to redo DAO in NWN2.

Redoing a DnD game in NWN2 sure sound tastefull. But DAO is an other beast with it's own strenght and default that aren't the same at all than NWN2.

If you do something in NWN2 I think it's better to focus on NWN2 strenght, same with DAO do things with DAO that can't be done with NWN2, and do tings with NWN2 that can't be done with DAO.

Neither do I. However i would understand if a person choose to take the DA Lore and make a own module in NWN2 for it. or the other way around make a forgotten realm module with DA:O. Remaking games is just a waste of time, especially if you don't add something new to the flavour.

[ChewyGumball]

I would beg to differ. I do remember a little mod called bgredux. It seems quite popular.

[Shallina]

bgredux add plenty of thing to the original, first being in 3D with a full immersion is quite an improvement. But DAO and NWN2 engine are really similar, remaking one into the other will improve some aspect but others will be downdraged. Basically, you will comme with only something inférior I think.

[CID-78]

I don't know how many remakes project i have seen started. they never pull through, The only one I seen is the Eye of the Beholder, which I don't think is the same on NWN. I guess there is a few i don't know about. Not the same experience at all. Besides what's fun in playing a game you already know from the old times unless you take another aim at it. which on the otherside will give you alot of flame posts. It's better to take insperation from the game and do something on your own.

3D doesn't allways improve things hidden stuff will appear in as in daylights thanks to it.

[mouser9169]

CID-78 wrote...

I don't know how many remakes project i have seen started. they never pull through, The only one I seen is the Eye of the Beholder, which I don't think is the same on NWN. I guess there is a few i don't know about. Not the same experience at all. Besides what's fun in playing a game you already know from the old times unless you take another aim at it. which on the otherside will give you alot of flame posts. It's better to take insperation from the game and do something on your own.

3D doesn't allways improve things hidden stuff will appear in as in daylights thanks to it.

I gotta agree with CID here.  I've never heard of BGredux, so I can't comment on that. If you count the Baldur's Gate Trilogy mod (pulling BG into BG2) I suppose that's one. I know there was an effort to pull it into the IWD 2 engine, but that never materialized.

As for 3D vs 2D - my favorite CRPG of all time is Final Fantasy VI - 2D sprites.  I've played the FFIV remake for the DS in 3D, and honestly wasn't all that impressed with it. It's different, but not really better.

[Shallina]

IWD is almost finished, and Baldur's gate is really advanced in the NWN2 engine . Thise 2 project will see the finish line

There is also an IWD in NWN1 that will probably see the finish line.

[mouser9169]

To give a quick example of a "rules variant" mod, which is the sort of thing I'm looking at, if you've ever played Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, there is a "Camarilla Edition" and "The Final Nights" expansion (done by the same people) that keep the game the same, but change some of the fundamental mechanics (in this case, adding real-time blood loss for your character).

The Final Nights changes some other stuff as well, but it's the mechanic change that really brings a new "feel" to the game.

[Challseus]

mouser9169 wrote...

As for 3D vs 2D - my favorite CRPG of all time is Final Fantasy VI - 2D sprites.  I've played the FFIV remake for the DS in 3D, and honestly wasn't all that impressed with it. It's different, but not really better.

I'd sell my un-born child to play a 3D version of Final Fantasy VI, with full VO. Rumor is it could come for the 3DS.

*cough*

Carry on with your discussion

[pizzapicante]

Didnt a project to port BG2 to NWN 1/2 existed, what happened to that?, also in the line of engine ports.
I have heard of Morroblivion (Morrowind to Oblivion) and wasnt Project Black Mesa (HL1 to HL2) completed?

[CID-78]

yes there has been a BG remake project to NWN2 and a Icewinddale for NWN2,

I thought the morrowind to oblivion got stop because of legal reasons. (another good reason to why you shouldn't do these on well known trademarks)

[Tchos]

I'm still waiting on Project Black Mesa, unfortunately. It's not out yet.

Morroblivion looks like it's in working order now. Last time I checked, there were no quests implemented, but the FAQ says they are now.

I generally agree with CID on the matter, though.  The energy would be better spent on new content than on remaking old content.  Even as a brand new player of BG2, I find the original engine to be an excellent gaming platform, and I'd even entertain modding it myself.  The greatest disadvantage of remakes is that you'd be basically playing the vanilla game, updated.  What about the countless mods that were made for the original engine?  They wouldn't work on the new engine.

But, on the other hand, there are many advantages as well, such as bringing the game to an audience that wouldn't play the original, or the enjoyment of fans, or as a learning exercise, and probably more.  It depends what your purpose is.

Modifié par Tchos, 01 août 2011 - 06:39 .

[mouser9169]

Challseus wrote...

mouser9169 wrote...

As for 3D vs 2D - my favorite CRPG of all time is Final Fantasy VI - 2D sprites.  I've played the FFIV remake for the DS in 3D, and honestly wasn't all that impressed with it. It's different, but not really better.

I'd sell my un-born child to play a 3D version of Final Fantasy VI, with full VO. Rumor is it could come for the 3DS.

*cough*

Carry on with your discussion

Ahh... Full voice overs...  Maybe I'm just too "old skool", or I've read too many books for entertainment, but that's a feature that doesn't really get me very excited.  I'm  not against them, just sort of neutral on that feature.

I am curious to how TOR will handle them as the game develops. With most MMO's currently, all you really need to add a simple quest is a dialog writer and a code monkey. Maybe an art guy if it involves new models or something like that. With full VO, you also need voice actors, a sound engineer, a recording studio (yes, they'll already have this but using it is still a "cost"), and probably some other folks to get the sound through the pipeline to the game. And what happens when you can't get the guy who did the original voice for a character?

[CID-78]

Yeah VO stop modding in a high degree, if you want quality you can't modify existing NPC's or they NPC will have some lines VOed while other remain silent which is a turnoff. you either have it or not, there is no good mix.

[pizzapicante]

Meh I dont always like full VO I mean in games like ME and Withcer series I think it works but somehow when it was put in like DA2 (dont start a flamewar on this one is just an opinion) it just didnt feel right, everytime I tried to change the vanilla char (yes I had that mod that makes char creation better) the voice just didnt sound right and it irked me to no end, curiously I dont have this problem in ME.

[DarthParametric]

mouser9169 wrote...

And what happens when you can't get the guy who did the original voice for a character?

That is the exactly the problem that plagues single player RPGs today, especially with the focus on DLCs instead of proper expansions. Invariably you end up with some bunch of new characters because they couldn't (or wouldn't) hire most of the original cast, and oftentimes both the quality and quantity of the voice work is diminished. As such you usually see some sort of gimmick to explain why your usual squadmates or other NPCs suddenly aren't around of have no input into the events of the content, the usual one involving the PC being whisked briefly off by themselves to some strange new land/place. But even in the main game, dialogue (and consequently the story) is always limited because of the requirement for it all to be voiced. It's one of the reasons I have issues with the heavy focus now on full VO. Whilst there are some game characters that are iconic largely because of their VO work, there is a heavy price to pay for it.

[mouser9169]

Challseus wrote...

mouser9169 wrote...

As for 3D vs 2D - my favorite CRPG of all time is Final Fantasy VI - 2D sprites.  I've played the FFIV remake for the DS in 3D, and honestly wasn't all that impressed with it. It's different, but not really better.

I'd sell my un-born child to play a 3D version of Final Fantasy VI, with full VO. Rumor is it could come for the 3DS.

*cough*

Carry on with your discussion

How would they ever do justice to Kefka's Laugh™ with a voice-over (unless they just copy over the file).

[Challseus]

mouser9169 wrote...

How would they ever do justice to Kefka's Laugh™ with a voice-over (unless they just copy over the file).

They would... um... Hmm... Okay, you win this battle. I still want my 3D Final Fantasy VI