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[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra's utilitarian attitude disgusts me, as usual. Thank Jubileus we are here to keep the galaxy straight.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra's utilitarian attitude disgusts me, as usual. Thank Jubileus we are here to keep the galaxy straight.

And what is it that you find disgusting about utilitarianism?

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

Paragon Shepard unleashes the Rachni onto the galaxy,wants to cure the genophage and strengthens the Geth. He's a major douche who wants to satisfy his ego no matter the political consequences and how many lives he endangers.

I'm iffy on the genophage, personally. And I'm fairly sure the rachni and geth will be reliable enough allies against the Reapers, and hopefully beyond.

Committing all those acts without the council's prior-knowledge and consent means your Shepard is a disloyal renegade.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra's utilitarian attitude disgusts me, as usual. Thank Jubileus we are here to keep the galaxy straight.

And what is it that you find disgusting about utilitarianism?

The immorality of it.

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra's utilitarian attitude disgusts me, as usual. Thank Jubileus we are here to keep the galaxy straight.

Jubileus will cast her into the deepest bowls of inferno for her blasphemy against paradiso.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra's utilitarian attitude disgusts me, as usual. Thank Jubileus we are here to keep the galaxy straight.

And what is it that you find disgusting about utilitarianism?

The immorality of it.

Elaborate?

Committing all those acts without the council's prior-knowledge and consent means your Shepard is a disloyal renegade.

I'm not bound to the Council at the hip. I just won't obliterate them and ten thousand others.

[Sebby]

laecraft wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Paragon Shepard unleashes the Rachni onto the galaxy,wants to cure the genophage and strengthens the Geth.  He's a major douche who wants to satisfy his ego no matter the political consequences and how many lives he endangers.

I made those Paragon choices too, and it has nothing to do with ego.

I just want to stir up maximum amount of chaos in the Galaxy. Humans thrive in chaos, unlike Asari, Salarians, or Turians.

That's exactly what I was looking forward to when I saved everyone I could. I imagine it's going to be a great, grand mess. As Mordin would put it, so much potential, let's not waste it. If we're going to go down against the Reapers, we might as well go down together. And what fun would it be.

Just imagine, the Reapers are slaughtering the galaxy, and the galaxy is slaughtering each other. The rachni, the krogan, the geth - they all deserve to witness the arrival!

After Cerberus unleashed my Shepard upon the galaxy, my Shepard's feeling generous and wants to unleash everyone else, as well. Even if others might say that it's going too far. He recognizes the potential. The devastating potential for chaos. If this galaxy is ready for the Reapers, it should be ready for Shepard, and for everyone else, as well.

Ahhh, why can't my Shepard cackle evilly while releasing the rachni Queen or keeping the cure for the krogan.

Apparently undermining the council's policy on the Krogan and unleashing the Rachni is not an unloyal "renegade" action against them.

[General User]

Seboist wrote...
Paragon Shepard unleashes the Rachni onto the galaxy,wants to cure the genophage and strengthens the Geth.  He's a major douche who wants to satisfy his ego no matter the political consequences and how many lives he endangers.

Does Paragon Shepard want to cure the genophage?  I kept the cure data just so Cerberus would have it.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra's utilitarian attitude disgusts me, as usual. Thank Jubileus we are here to keep the galaxy straight.

And what is it that you find disgusting about utilitarianism?

The immorality of it.

Elaborate?

It is immoral.

[Sebby]

General User wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Paragon Shepard unleashes the Rachni onto the galaxy,wants to cure the genophage and strengthens the Geth.  He's a major douche who wants to satisfy his ego no matter the political consequences and how many lives he endangers.

Does Paragon Shepard want to cure the genophage?  I kept the cure data just so Cerberus would have it.

Apparently he does, that's why he practically calls Mordin a criminal.

[Dave of Canada]

General User wrote...

Does Paragon Shepard want to cure the genophage?  I kept the cure data just so Cerberus would have it.

Mordin's entire loyalty mission is essentially about telling Mordin he's an absolute monster and asking how he can live with himself for creating the genophage.

[Xilizhra]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

The most frustrating thing is that even if you keep telling Mordin he did the right thing, he still gets all morose and "wheel of life" about it.

Here Professor, have a coffee. You'll feel better.

Well, you can hardly blame him.

[General User]

I see what y'all mean. There are parts of those conversations where Shepard is just plain haranguing Mordin in the one of the preachiest, most self-righteous ways possible.

What about the decision itself to keep or delete the cure data? I mean it's one of the biggest Par./Ren. point decisions in the game, but keeping it is tantamount to giving it to Cerberus no matter what one intends to do with it later.  Shouldn't that be Renegade?

And there are all sorts of ways that cure data could be used for other-than-Paragon ends. Everything from using the cure to breed and motivate a krogan army ala Saren, to engineering a bioweapon to wipeout the krogan entirely.

Modifié par General User, 25 octobre 2011 - 11:12 .

[Dave of Canada]

There's four options in the mission itself:
Keep the Cure > You tell Mordin to keep it just incase.
Destroy the Cure > You tell Mordin to destroy it just incase.
Support the Genophage > Cure is destroyed and you tell Mordin the Genophage was right.
Tell Mordin he was wrong > Cure is spared and you tell Mordin he should make amends.

Judging by how the writing works, there's likely not going to be any difference between the two "destroy" and the two "keep" options. Anyways, Mordin keeps it and I doubt Cerberus recieves any of it.

[Dave of Canada]

One worrying thing about all of this, I've supported the Genophage and told Mordin he was a pretty cool guy. Does this mean we're going to be fighting Cerberus operatives and trying to bring the fertile Krogan Female to Wrex?

Maybe Cerberus is simply trying to kill Shepard because of how inconsistant he is.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 octobre 2011 - 11:30 .

[Sebby]

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Apparently undermining the council's policy on the Krogan and unleashing the Rachni is not an unloyal "renegade" action against them.

I still didn't figure out how actions are labelled as Renegade or Paragon. There doesn't seem to be any system to it. Except that many "save the life" actions are Paragon, and many "kill" actions are Renegade.

I suspect this has more to do with the game mechanic than with morality in-game. Paragon path offers potential, while Renegade one cuts it short. So Paragon branch of choice is the main path, while the Renegade branch is the short, lesser one - snapped off branch on that tree. Linearity makes development easier.

They can get away with it because the majority of people are expected to choose the blue path to feel good, and they're encouraged to take the blue path if they want to see the potential being fulfilled. I'm not sure if making both paths equal in the long run, with benefits and drawbacks, was an intention in the first place. And now TIM is paying the price. And TIM's fans are being sacrificed. This is not a good omen of the things to come.

Oh well, I won't get started on it again.

Yeah, the whole system is extremely shallow and boils down to whether or not the player wants to feel warm and fuzzy (Paragon) or troll for the lulz(Renegade).  I never get the impression I'm making a hard decisions that have long lasting consequences, instead it's "if it feels good do it".

Why can't I kill the Rachni Queen because my Shepard wants to remain loyal to the council and not ruin humanity's chance of ascending into their ranks? Why can't I let her loose because I want to undermine them?

The whole Geth rewrite situation is another one, why isn't the repercussions from the Quarians ever factored into the decision? Shepard should have been faced with the dilemma of whether or not having an empowered Geth as an ally was worth the cost of alienating the Quarians(among other things).

Dragon Age: Orgins and both Witchers have these dilemmas, why isn't there any in Mass Effect?

[Ravensword]

You know, I'm sure you guys get a warm and fuzzy feeling when you do your Renegade actaions and interrupts so it really doesn't matters.