6970 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Of course, there isn't much about the entire character of Zaeed but his personality stands out as being one of the most memorable for me. The reason being that he isn't plagued with problems and is unable to solve them himself, he was proactive during his loyalty mission and notifies to Shepard that it's his mission and not yours.

Oh yeah, I love his personality.  He's badass, hilarious, and the special kind of jerk that you can't help but love.  And yeah, the "lone wolf" aspect is definitely there.  I think Jacob tried that, but fell a little short--at least Zaeed told you cool stories.  Jacob made saving the Citadel sound like grocery shopping, poor fellow.

*snip for brevity*

Everybody else has this personality which Shepard's magical personality charms them, they don't threaten or challenge Shepard. It's a shame that they added the charm option at the end of the loyalty mission if you let Vido escape, however it's the thought of the scene that counts.

Actually, Garrus and Tali get pretty riled up at Shepard during their LMs.  Tali will pretty much stop being your friend if you don't do what she says and outright loses it with you if you tell her reclaiming the homeworld is a bad idea.  Garrus is kind of a butt during the entirety of his loyalty mission, especially if you try to paragon, and only backs down when Sidonis--not Shepard--speaks to him.

I think it's a little ironic that the two squadmates most lauded and bashed for their "blind" loyalty to Shepard are the ones that seem to have the strongest wills.

As for paragon not working, I think that's a little unfair, since a full renegade can still get all squadmates loyal.  Both sides should have equal reward; the answer isn't to nerf one, but give more goodies to the other.

TOPIC RELEVANCE

[Dave of Canada]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Actually, Garrus and Tali get pretty riled up at Shepard during their LMs.  Tali will pretty much stop being your friend if you don't do what she says and outright loses it with you if you tell her reclaiming the homeworld is a bad idea.  Garrus is kind of a butt during the entirety of his loyalty mission, especially if you try to paragon, and only backs down when Sidonis--not Shepard--speaks to him.

Which is why I'd rank Garrus slightly above Zaeed as one of my favorite characters, up there with Zaeed. Disappointed he doesn't say more about his loyatly mission, though.

As for paragon not working, I think that's a little unfair, since a full renegade can still get all squadmates loyal.  Both sides should have equal reward; the answer isn't to nerf one, but give more goodies to the other.

If you don't do what Tali wants on her loyalty mission, you lose her loyalty forever and can't gain it back with intimidate.

[Sebby]

Like with TIM, one of the best things about Zaeed is the voice acting that brings the character to life. Robin Sachs made Zaeed a joy to listen even with the generic battle sounds("firing concussive shot!", "Sit down!").

[Sebby]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Evolution, Retribution and perhaps Ascension. The games understandably don't do him much justice in terms of characterization.

Ascension is the worst portrayal of TIM as it's clear it was made before the character was finalized for ME2. It has him based in the penthouse of Cord-hislop HQ.... on Earth.

[Xilizhra]

If you don't do what Tali wants on her loyalty mission, you lose her loyalty forever and can't gain it back with intimidate.

You can intimidate the Admiralty. A Renegade can gain her loyalty just as easily as a Paragon.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

You can intimidate the Admiralty. A Renegade can gain her loyalty just as easily as a Paragon.

And anybody who wants to do the "Renegade" action of telling the uncomfortable truth because it fits their character is shafted, there's no reason to have Tali be exiled because it's funny but there's motivation for telling the truth.

Why must telling the truth punish the player gameplay wise? Why even bother adding the option at all?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 octobre 2011 - 05:43 .

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You can intimidate the Admiralty. A Renegade can gain her loyalty just as easily as a Paragon.

And anybody who wants to do the "Renegade" action of telling the uncomfortable truth because it fits their character is shafted, there's no reason to have Tali be exiled because it's funny but there's motivation for telling the truth.

Why must telling the truth punish the player gameplay wise? Why even bother adding the option at all?

Why bother adding non-Charm options for Zaeed if you do the Paragon path? And it isn't like telling the uncomfortable truth because its in-character isn't heavily foreshadowed to have bad consequences.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I prefer the Renegade version in Tali's trial. Hearing my FemShep shout out of her head at the Admirals was priceless.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why bother adding non-Charm options for Zaeed if you do the Paragon path?

Because you don't have enough charm for the decision, any piece of dialogue in this case doesn't give different results. You'd have a point if there was multiple scenarios present with the non-Charm dialogue.

And it isn't like telling the uncomfortable truth because its in-character isn't heavily foreshadowed to have bad consequences.

All you're told is that revealing it would make Tali's father be removed from the records and turned into a pariah for the Quarians and that Tali wouldn't like you.

Just like how Zaeed says he won't like you if you go save the workers and the dialogue option says "Forget loyalty.", though a charm option is still present.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 octobre 2011 - 05:48 .

[Ashwraith]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

I prefer the Renegade version in Tali's trial. Hearing my FemShep shout out of her head at the Admirals was priceless.

Oh, gods yes. I love listening to Shep screaming at the Admiralty Board, particularly since it was pretty much what I myself wanted to say. Only, you know, more eloquently than how I'd have put it.

I also quite enjoyed telling the Council where they could shove their Spectre status, though admittedly that one'll probably come back to bite me in the ass.

Modifié par Ashwraith, 26 octobre 2011 - 05:50 .

[Xilizhra]

All you're told is that revealing it would make Tali's father be removed from the records and turned into a pariah for the Quarians and that Tali wouldn't like you.

Tali wouldn't like you, thus losing her loyalty.

Just like how Zaeed says he won't like you if you go save the workers and the dialogue option says "Forget loyalty.".

True, but the situation differs from Tali's trial; there, there are multiple ways to go Renegade, but in Zaeed's, there's only one way to go Paragon. I do think that that dialogue prompt kinda sucks; it's in league with "I want you" with Thane.

[Sebby]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why bother adding non-Charm options for Zaeed if you do the Paragon path?

Because you don't have enough charm for the decision, any piece of dialogue in this case doesn't give different results. You'd have a point if there was multiple scenarios present with the non-Charm dialogue.

And it isn't like telling the uncomfortable truth because its in-character isn't heavily foreshadowed to have bad consequences.

All you're told is that revealing it would make Tali's father be removed from the records and turned into a pariah for the Quarians and that Tali wouldn't like you.

Just like how Zaeed says he won't like you if you go save the workers and the dialogue option says "Forget loyalty.", though a charm option is still present.

When I first played that mission I thought I really would not get his loyalty if I didn't go after Vido. I also handed over the evidence in Tali's mission without knowing that it's the "Shepard shoots herself in the foot for no good reason" option.

[Sebby]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Actually, Garrus and Tali get pretty riled up at Shepard during their LMs.  Tali will pretty much stop being your friend if you don't do what she says and outright loses it with you if you tell her reclaiming the homeworld is a bad idea.  Garrus is kind of a butt during the entirety of his loyalty mission, especially if you try to paragon, and only backs down when Sidonis--not Shepard--speaks to him.

I think it's a little ironic that the two squadmates most lauded and bashed for their "blind" loyalty to Shepard are the ones that seem to have the strongest wills.

It's because people accused Tali and Garrus of being soft/obedient towards Shepard in ME1. Them and Liara.

I'd also like to say my Shep never had a single problem with Garrus in his LM. Bottom line is, your bro asked you to help him kill some dude, you help. You don't ask questions.

The Paragon path in Garrus LM makes no freaking sense. Paragon Shepard agrees to his request which is to flat out KILL Sidonis, then proceeds to shoot up a warehouse full of a mercs,allows Harkin to be mercilessly beaten and then has the nerve to preach "thou shall not kill" at the last minute?

[AdmiralCheez]

Seboist wrote...

The Paragon path in Garrus LM makes no freaking sense. Paragon Shepard agrees to his request which is to flat out KILL Sidonis, then proceeds to shoot up a warehouse full of a mercs,allows Harkin to be mercilessly beaten and then has the nerve to preach "thou shall not kill" at the last minute?

Made sense to me.

Not discussing in depth here.  Last time I did, Saph came storming in and destroyed the universe.  Besides, wrong thread.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The Paragon path in Garrus LM makes no freaking sense. Paragon Shepard agrees to his request which is to flat out KILL Sidonis, then proceeds to shoot up a warehouse full of a mercs,allows Harkin to be mercilessly beaten and then has the nerve to preach "thou shall not kill" at the last minute?

Made sense to me.

Not discussing in depth here.  Last time I did, Saph came storming in and destroyed the universe.  Besides, wrong thread.

I liked them aswell. Mostly because the paragon path in Zaeed's and Garrus' LM gives them a decent character arc.

[AdmiralCheez]

laecraft wrote...

Is Tali supposed to have more self-respect than Zaeed or something?

She doesn't shoot people for money, so maybe.

(Don't take that too seriously.)

[AdmiralCheez]

More like human. Stupid, irrational inconsistencies in behavior happen with real people all the time. And really, preserving her father's dignity is the least you can do, considering she's fighting for a cause that's not hers, on behalf of an organization she despises.

Friendship is awesome.

[Ravensword]

laecraft wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

If you don't do what Tali wants on her loyalty mission, you lose her loyalty forever and can't gain it back with intimidate.

Exactly. You can defy Zaeed, foil his revenge, go against his wishes, and still gain his loyalty. But if you don't do what Tali tells you, you can't get her loyalty. This inequality strikes me as odd. Is Tali supposed to have more self-respect than Zaeed or something?

-Snip-

The first time I did Zaeed's LM I couldn't let the workers in the refinery burn to death but I also felt sorry about Zaeed not being able to get his revenge on account of the fact that Vido betrayed him and shot him in the face. I didn't have the points to charm him or anything. I will say that Vido deserves to die but not at the cost of letting the refinery workers burn to death. I wonder if Vido will appear in ME3 if you didn't get him in ME2. Anyways, I get the feeling that the reason they but the charm option for Zaeed's LM was so that Paragons could enjoy the Inferno Grenade which is totally awesome!

It still is odd, considering that Zaeed's been holding a grudge against Vido for 20 years, and when you choose to save the workers instead of going after Vido, Shepard is able to Charm Zaeed into letting go of his grudge indefinitely. Even though I liked what Shepard said to him, but there's just no way that words are going to make a situation like that better.

[Sebby]

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

My head canon is what counts. That's how Zaeed was the leading man of ME2 and how my femshep ended up in bed with him.

Spoken like a true Renegade. ("My opinion is the one that matters" I love that line.) If other Shepards don't want to date TIM, all the better, we can keep TIM all to ourselves. There's a positive side to this, at least we won't have to share TIM with base-destroying Paragons.

My head canon makes ME far more interesting than it really is. It allows me to play as a Shepard that isn't a mindless killing machine and who's a masterful planner(scheming to use the Rachni and Krogan against the council races) and who doesn't act on emotional impulses without thinking of the bigger picture.

My Shepards favour ruthless Renegades. People like Mordin, Wrex,
Zaeed, and TIM. For LIs, humans are preferable. It would be nice to have
a human LI for Renegades...right now, there isn't anyone suitable.
Kaidan's romance was great, and Miranda had potential...but now they
have fallen to the Light side. It's tragic.

My more ruthless Cerb loyalist femshep romanced Jacob but he's such a dullard that I have difficulty coming up with a reason why she'd be into him beyond wanting to get revenge at Kaidan and wanting to get laid. She pretty much just sees him as a penis with a life support system.

The only good human romance for a renegade in ME2 is Kelly, which my other femshep went after.

[Ravensword]

laecraft wrote...

I picked Kelly's "romance" for both of my Shepards, after I despaired to find anything better. It strikes me as the most honest and believable. She feeds Shepard's fish, Shepard saves her from the Collectors...and then she dances for Shepard. It's all very romantic.

Shame it's so incomplete and vague throughout. Practically nothing is clear - you can't tell what's happening, where, when, and if anything is happening at all. I get it that they need to draw a curtain over a sex scene - but doing it over narrative? Sure, leave everything to my imagination - but why would I need the game then, I could write my own story. And they should've included a kiss. I don't remember, but I don't think there's one. Also her conversations are too meta, they sound like a writer's humorous commentary on the teammates. And that horrible Thane-like flashback *shudder*

But really, the dance makes it worth it. It's very considerate of TIM to provide me with a lovely companion who is such a nice person and a great dancer, too.

I somehow get the feeling that TIM had no idea about Kelly's exotic dancing skills. Then again, it would be logical to assume that TIM has extensive information on the backgrounds of all his employees. So what I'm getting at is I get the feeling that Kelly might've done some stripping during college and if so TIM would've definitely known about that, so it makes you wonder if that's one of the reasons he put Kelly on the ship. Kelly was able to finish college and land a career before she wa approached by a scout from the adult film industry.

There is no romance scene like w/ all the other LIs in ME2. I think the player has to infer that when Shepard invites Kelly up to his cabin for the first time you would have to infer that they simply didn't just spend the entire time talking and that they probably made out, if not have sex. The problem is that one could also infer that nothing happened and they simply talked and the reason for doing so was to get her to feed Shepard's fish b/c it's freaking annoying having to go through two load screens just to feed the damn fish.