6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

There's the little problem of the council that Paragon Shepard works for doesn't want to integrate them, nor do the Krogans themselves want to be part of their system but don't worry BW will completely disregard the lore to give you your kumbaya outcome along with Thane being cured and TIM being revealed to be the anti-christ.

You know, one good thing about the Reapers is how they'll bring everybody together.

Or better yet, just to fail completely. That'd make Paragons feel good about themselves.

Why? I need only my own results.

That's why I don't like the whole Paragon - Renegade system. It's too vague, it's too open to interpretation, it's inconsistent in-game, the gameplay is heavily screwed in favour of Paragons, and on top of it all, there are people trying to claim moral high ground for taking the Paragon route. Both paths can never be equal. The system is flawed at the core, and it has to go.

Well, it's not going to.

I wish the choice would be about choosing our allies. For example:

Humanity-first, whatever the cost, even if it means making nice to the Council and sacrifice your own people to make a political gesture.

Pro-human, and making allies with non-Council species to overthrow the Council - krogan, vorcha, quarians.

Pro-Council, and let the galaxy burn, nobody touches asari superiority. Non-Council species are being extinguished, and nobody cares - the Council certainly didn't.

Chaos-first, pro-human. Support the rachni, cure the krogan, help the geth, unleash the yahg, and let the Reapers handle THIS. Let them face the darkest, most ruthless, most devastating side of Life itself. Whatever it takes to free the Earth, even if means drowning the galaxy in blood. We've already nothing to lose.

Pro-Reapers. Collaborator - inflitrator. Witness the Arrival, embrace the ascension! And then, after you've proven yourself beyond the shadow of doubt, after you've been tested for indoctrination and found fully under the control, when the Reapers have utmost faith in you, their most loyal minion, they're in for a little surprise...

Just pro-Reapers. Impale yourself on a spike and serve your masters in earnest. Starve to death after they're done with the galaxy and leave you here to die.

Support the species of your LI...let them burn if you break up.

Support either Cerberus, or Alliance, or Council, and get equal content for either choice, where each path leads to victory.

Support people, not organizations. For example, support Hackett, and leave the Alliance if he's fired. Support Wrex, and leave the krogan to their fate if they don't accept him as their leader.

Ah, right. So you skew that which you don't like, and you also don't include what I or a bunch of other people want, thus tilting your choices further. How high-minded of you.

For krogan it's normal to fight and be aggressive, and the greatest insult to the enemy is to be ignored.

Cultural. Blood rage was highly uncommon and seen as an aberration until the genophage hit.

For vorcha inflicting and receiving pain is normal communication, since it makes them stronger and improves them.

So far never addressed by Shepard.

For quarians it's normal not being able to see each other faces, and they have to risk death for simple contact.

Never addressed in the context of morality.

For batarians slavery is normal, and they create the biggest demand on the market for unwilling slaves. (implant violation).

Cultural.

For geth reprogramming is okay, and it's fine for them to switch allegiances in an instant because they've been rewritten.

A Paragon decision.

[Xilizhra]

laecraft wrote...

Heh...so you supported the project Overlord, then? It's about influencing the geth, not about killing them....a Paragon decision.

No. For one thing, it involved torture. For another thing, it was extremely stupid and nearly caused a technological apocalypse. For a third thing, I don't think it would even work because geth don't just naturally congregate around a god-figure, they joined Saren because the Reapers promised them something very specific. And for a fourth thing, it'd involve permanently enslaving the whole race, as opposed to just rewriting their opinion on one thing.

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

Head canon is the only thing that makes me still enjoy ME at this point, instead of disregarding it altogether as little more than a Star Wars-esque fairy tale in space with a light side/dark side morality system.

I see. So why did you buy ME2?

[Ravensword]

laecraft wrote...

It's volatile technology, accidents happen. Doesn't mean we have to stop working with risky tech. I won't let fear compromise who I am.

All those people who are going to die when the Reapers reprogram the geth yet again in an instant, they are going to feel just fine and not tortured at all when they're liquified and violated with Reaper implants, I'm sure.

Oh, nobody's going to "enslave" them, it's organics' concept. That's anthropomorphism, open your mind. We're just going to change their opinion on who to attack. If we don't do this first, the quarians are going to. A quarian Admiral already mocked me in an email about their progress.

Geth ARE extremely religious. They're all about religion. True geth and heretics both. They build shrines and worship at them. They call quarians the Creators. It's impossible to miss. And yeah, geth don't congregate around a god-figure...nothing's going on between Legion and Shepard, I'm sure.

Wow. Cool story, sis.

Modifié par Ravensword, 27 octobre 2011 - 02:02 .

[Xilizhra]

It's volatile technology, accidents happen. Doesn't mean we have to stop working with risky tech. I won't let fear compromise who I am.

So far as I can tell, you won't let facts compromise who you are either.

All those people who are going to die when the Reapers reprogram the geth yet again in an instant, they are going to feel just fine and not tortured at all when they're liquified and violated with Reaper implants, I'm sure.

Right, I'll be sure to write all the apology letters to Fevered Imagination Land.

Oh, nobody's going to "enslave" them, it's organics' concept. That's anthropomorphism, open your mind. We're just going to change their opinion on who to attack. If we don't do this first, the quarians are going to. A quarian Admiral already mocked me in an email about their progress.

Xen's downfall will come soon enough. Rael's plan failed then and I can't imagine Xen will do any better.

Geth ARE extremely religious. They're all about religion. True geth and heretics both. They build shrines and worship at them. They call quarians the Creators. It's impossible to miss. And yeah, geth don't congregate around a god-figure...nothing's going on between Legion and Shepard, I'm sure.

David's control wasn't even based on religion; he can apparently take total control over anything that could be considered a computer, including EDI.

[Xilizhra]

Morality IS cultural thing. It doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's moral for krogan to fight to the last breath. It's moral for yahg to struggle for dominance. It's moral for turians to be top dogs and look down on the species who don't shoot enemies on sight.

It's how they developed, but if their culture can be changed to be more beneficial for all, then it would be an improvement.

These species...these extremely aggressive species are not going to respect humanity if we don't have firepower to back us up.

Perhaps, but given the full force of the Reaper attacks, we'd better have a backup plan.

For some reason, Paragons assume that everybody's going to listen to humanity and Shepard would be in charge. Why?

There wouldn't be much of a game otherwise.

The Earth is being devastated. Humanity is almost certainly doomed. We don't have any power to offer to other species. We don't have the turian fleet or the salarian bioweapons. Why would they care about us when their own homeworlds are under attack? Why would they even consider our opinion? Why would it give them a pause to abandon us? They could afford ethics in the time of peace, yet they didn't risk their lives to help a few dozen human colonies, what's going to change during the time of war, when their very existence is at risk?

Reasons that may yet be revealed in the actual game, likely.

We can't be supplicants in this. We can't just fall to their feet and beg them to please help us save the Earth, or do quests for them and hope for their gratitude. We need to be strong enough to show other species that it would benefit them to ally with us, and it would endanger them to act against us.

We'll do what it takes. I'll take total capitulation if it means that the galaxy keeps existing, humanity included, because humanity will either stand together with the rest of the galaxy, or not stand at all. And this isn't just my morality talking; we're totally screwed if we have to fight the Reapers alone.

[Sebby]

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Head canon is the only thing that makes me still enjoy ME at this point, instead of disregarding it altogether as little more than a Star Wars-esque fairy tale in space with a light side/dark side morality system.

I see. So why did you buy ME2?

I bought both games at the same time. :happy:

[Labrev]

laecraft wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Zaeed's state-of-mind has been with him a long time, and he's still been a very successful mercenary. That, to me, is less reason to kill Vido (even though I did it anyway). Why ruin a "good" thing? Maybe he's less effective without that motivator.

So was Jack's. Why ruin a "good" thing? Tell me you didn't try to fix her...maybe she would become less effective without all that bottled up rage!

Jack is not some kind of elite soldier or something. She's a strong biotic, but it pretty much starts and ends there. An unrefined killer. Really not in the same league as Zaeed. That aside from the fact that the issue of "fixing" is completely irrelevant to his LM.

[Xilizhra]

...are you taking it on yourself to alter a species' culture? What makes you think your idea of culture is better than theirs?

Not really. The odds of such a thing actually working if forced are minimal. I lead by example.

[Xilizhra]

The facts - like that the geth are easily rewritten, and could become enemies any time, and with their numbers, they could really be a major pain in the ass during the war with the Reapers?

I very much doubt it. If Sovereign could have sent out the virus to rewrite all the geth at once, it would have done that. Clearly it couldn't, and though the virus may have been conceived by the Reapers, it was never released by the heretics when Sovereign was actually around. It took two years before the virus was ready to be released, which leads me to believe that it was the heretic geth who had to develop it from the initial Reaper conception, probably because the Reapers had no direct experience with the geth and didn't know how to get around all their anti-hacking countermeasures, especially not all at once. Sovereign is dead, the virus' data has been deleted, the heretic movement is over, and the true geth are all much more ready. The Reapers would need to write an entirely new virus without geth help, during the war. I don't believe any threat is going to come down that pike.

It's for their own good. When the Reapers get them once again, we would only do geth a favour if we can sway them back to the galaxy's side.

Overlord is a minor DLC. It won't be part of a critical plot point any more than Bring Down the Sky was in ME2.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 27 octobre 2011 - 03:08 .

[Xilizhra]

Woah. That is as radically authoritarian nationalist as it gets.

I have very little faith in actually being able to change their culture through any type of force; I mentioned leading by example before.

I've heard this one too often. But exactly what is the logic behind that? How does diversifying the ethnic makeup of an army/a war economy invariably and decisively increase its effectiveness?

We have more soldiers and guns that way.

[Sebby]

It would be be pretty lame if say the Quarians and Geth aren't portrayed as being co-belligerents at best or the Krogans with the Turians but I'm not counting on it.

[Xilizhra]

"Numbers alone are nothing. The mistakes of an outsider."

True, but translators, more or less identical technology, combat doctrines that everyone knows even if they're not truly shared, and suchlike will make this a whole lot easier.

Let's be realistic here. The whole galaxy united isn't going to make a slightest difference in the war against the Reapers. If we win, it would be because of some revelation, and because of something Shepard did.

Shepard alone won't be able to stop all the Reapers; if it weren't for the rest of the galaxy backing her up, she wouldn't have time to actually do anything.

It would be be pretty lame if say the Quarians and Geth aren't portrayed as being co-belligerents at best or the Krogans with the Turians but I'm not counting on it.

Certainly not doing things like sabotaging each other.

Oh I'm counting on the Geth wiping out the Quarians, before or after. I'll do all that is within my power to accomplish that. It's for the same reason I support death sentence for parents who tried to kill their children.

Honestly, that'd work better if any quarians responsible for trying to wipe out the geth were alive today.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 27 octobre 2011 - 03:58 .