6970 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm not certain if it was an "invasion," per se. There were like two dropships total, one of which Shepard destroys, and the other just seems to leave. They weren't trying to destroy the colony, but find and kill the Thorian. Hackett is quite happy to send Shepard against a somewhat larger incursion in the Armstrong Nebula, remember.

I think that Council law does protect the status of AIs, it just doesn't like them being created. And Tali said that the quarians were skirting the boundaries of the law; given the way history changes, it seems quite possible that the quarians were actually breaking it.

The fleet was there for a miniscule length of time, not nearly enough to provoke a Terminus response.

The plan works only so long as no one tampers with any step of it, which took a while to do, but the Reapers only had to be a bit slow in taking out the Protheans for the Protheans to be able to understand mass relays enough to build the Conduit and wreck the plan. And the Citadel's defenses were all obliterated by Sovereign; the C-SEC people on the inside whom Saren killed would be of no concern either. Saren needed to be in the Council Chamber to override the Keepers, and when Vigil's lockout stopped that, the plan was screwed. Thus, Sovereign needed to possess Saren, thus risking its own life, to kill Shepard and undo that. It failed and Sovereign was killed as well.

That's kind of like saying that the nation of England has done far more unspeakable horrors than the Third Reich. It's technically true but completely ignores the idea of proportion.

Considering the Geth slaughtered a good amount of the Colony, it still counts.  The same reason that the Council should be intervening against Batarian slave runs.  Yes, Hackett is, isn't he?  But then he's quite the cutthroat guy (and he gives you a tank ).

No, no.  There's a sidequest on the Citadel in ME 1 where you discover an AI (who fears if it is discovered it will be destroyed).  The Council law seems to be "Creating AI is illegal. If AI is created, it must be destroyed".  Even if the Quarians were skirting the law, the appropriate response isn't what happened to the Quarians.

So it's okay for the Council to kill people, but not protect them.  Groovy.

Sovereign didn't want the arms closed until he was inside; which Saren accomplished.  It makes no sense for the override to only be available to the Reapers inside the Council Chamber with no access for them from the outside.

England does have quite the checkered past, doesn't it?  But they've showed signs of change.  The Council has not.

[Xilizhra]

If it's something else, TIM would've invested into something else, and left Shepard dead.

Shepard has potentially valuable traits other than the things that make her person.

Considering the Geth slaughtered a good amount of the Colony, it still counts. The same reason that the Council should be intervening against Batarian slave runs.

I don't think the Alliance actually wants the Council intervening there, as it'd make the Alliance look weak to the batarians. As for Feros, there were casualties, but there don't seem to have been significant ones.

No, no. There's a sidequest on the Citadel in ME 1 where you discover an AI (who fears if it is discovered it will be destroyed). The Council law seems to be "Creating AI is illegal. If AI is created, it must be destroyed". Even if the Quarians were skirting the law, the appropriate response isn't what happened to the Quarians.

Not all AIs are illegal. Some companies, such as Synthetic Insights, are permitted to create them. And that particular AI was a homicidal maniac.

So it's okay for the Council to kill people, but not protect them. Groovy.

The Council didn't kill anyone.

Sovereign didn't want the arms closed until he was inside; which Saren accomplished. It makes no sense for the override to only be available to the Reapers inside the Council Chamber with no access for them from the outside.

The Reapers didn't build an override because they have little concept of redundancy. Saren had to redo the signal from scratch; there were no external ports through which a Reaper could exert control, presumably because the Reapers didn't think it would be necessary.

England does have quite the checkered past, doesn't it? But they've showed signs of change. The Council has not.

It let humans in at an unprecedentedly fast rate.

[Sebby]

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So your loyalty is in large part based around how much someone paid for you? That's rather more mercenary than I thought.

On how much effort someone spent on bringing me back. Money is merely a concentrated expression of that effort. 

There's nothing mundane about humanity's money. It's millions of people working hard for years, day after day. It's all our resources, that we have to invest wisely into our salvation. The time of testing is appoaching, and we have to choose, and we better not make a mistake, because a wrong investment will cost us our existence.

All of that, TIM spends on just bringing Shepard back. Apparently Shepard is of that great worth. TIM invested everything he had - everything humanity had - into Shepard. Instead of spending that on funding an army, he chose Shepard. There is a lot of trust and faith here.

You know, one of the best things about TIMXFemshep is that what other woman could say "my man brought me back from the dead?". <3

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think the Alliance actually wants the Council intervening there, as it'd make the Alliance look weak to the batarians. As for Feros, there were casualties, but there don't seem to have been significant ones.

Not all AIs are illegal. Some companies, such as Synthetic Insights, are permitted to create them. And that particular AI was a homicidal maniac.

The Council didn't kill anyone.

The Reapers didn't build an override because they have little concept of redundancy. Saren had to redo the signal from scratch; there were no external ports through which a Reaper could exert control, presumably because the Reapers didn't think it would be necessary.

It let humans in at an unprecedentedly fast rate.

The majority of the colony appears to be dead.  And I don't just mean the Batarian runs on the Alliance; but on all of the Citadel's species.  The Asari gave up a planet to Batarian dominance without a fight, for goodness' sake.

Alright, so four companies are allowed to create AI (Synthetic Insight's page).  What about those outside of those four companies?  A thief managed to make one, which created another one (the one you talk to), which resulted in the thief killing it.  The surviving AI did it's best to get off of the Citadel and join up with the Geth, convinced that being discovered would lead to its death.  Which it did. 

Ah, yes, I'm sorry, the Spectres, the arm of the Council, has killed plenty.  And the Council cannot make a threat without backing it up; they would have killed those Quarian settlers.

If you say so.

That only happens after a human saves the galaxy, which is more than a good enough reason to let humanity on the Council (heck, the Volus should have a seat too; they made the economy, after all).

[Xilizhra]

You know, one of the best things about TIMXFemshep is that what other woman could say "my man brought me back from the dead?".

I'd say it, except I'd say "woman." I'm curious, though, as to why you keep saying Femshep in particular when it comes to Shepard...

The majority of the colony appears to be dead. And I don't just mean the Batarian runs on the Alliance; but on all of the Citadel's species. The Asari gave up a planet to Batarian dominance without a fight, for goodness' sake.

The majority? I never got that sense when I played it. As for asari giving up a world... it seems apocryphal, but it actually is a piece of evidence that the Council isn't biased against humans in their inaction.

Alright, so four companies are allowed to create AI (Synthetic Insight's page). What about those outside of those four companies? A thief managed to make one, which created another one (the one you talk to), which resulted in the thief killing it. The surviving AI did it's best to get off of the Citadel and join up with the Geth, convinced that being discovered would lead to its death. Which it did.

The AI's discovery led to its death because it was going to blow itself up, killing Shepard and a chunk of the Presidium, and deactivation was the only way to stop it.

Ah, yes, I'm sorry, the Spectres, the arm of the Council, has killed plenty. And the Council cannot make a threat without backing it up; they would have killed those Quarian settlers.

Perhaps. We know they didn't.

That only happens after a human saves the galaxy, which is more than a good enough reason to let humanity on the Council (heck, the Volus should have a seat too; they made the economy, after all).

There was talk about humans joining beforehand; Shepard just sped it up some.

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

You know, one of the best things about TIMXFemshep is that what other woman could say "my man brought me back from the dead?".

I'd say it, except I'd say "woman." I'm curious, though, as to why you keep saying Femshep in particular when it comes to Shepard...

My two main and canon Shepards are femsheps. Duh.

Modifié par Seboist, 31 octobre 2011 - 10:43 .

[Xilizhra]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know, one of the best things about TIMXFemshep is that what other woman could say "my man brought me back from the dead?".

I'd say it, except I'd say "woman." I'm curious, though, as to why you keep saying Femshep in particular when it comes to Shepard...

My two main and canon Shepards are femsheps. Duh.

You should do a TIMmancing maleshep.

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know, one of the best things about TIMXFemshep is that what other woman could say "my man brought me back from the dead?".

I'd say it, except I'd say "woman." I'm curious, though, as to why you keep saying Femshep in particular when it comes to Shepard...

My two main and canon Shepards are femsheps. Duh.

You should do a TIMmancing maleshep.

The **** would I want to do that for?

[Xilizhra]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know, one of the best things about TIMXFemshep is that what other woman could say "my man brought me back from the dead?".

I'd say it, except I'd say "woman." I'm curious, though, as to why you keep saying Femshep in particular when it comes to Shepard...

My two main and canon Shepards are femsheps. Duh.

You should do a TIMmancing maleshep.

The **** would I want to do that for?

I can't fathom why anyone would want to romance TIM, but presumably your Shepards can. It'd be an inspiration to try something different.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

The majority? I never got that sense when I played it. As for asari giving up a world... it seems apocryphal, but it actually is a piece of evidence that the Council isn't biased against humans in their inaction.

The AI's discovery led to its death because it was going to blow itself up, killing Shepard and a chunk of the Presidium, and deactivation was the only way to stop it.

Perhaps. We know they didn't.

There was talk about humans joining beforehand; Shepard just sped it up some.

Really?  I thought the majority of the colony was killed by Geth.  That the Council allowed this is an atrocity; they'll cede a planet and allow armed bands to go about as they pleased through their space unmolested, but when a homeless species dares to take a world on the edge of their space, that's when they act?  Despicable.

What would Shepard have done?  Turn it over to be killed by the Council?  Allow it to go it's merry way?  The second is impossible, as it wants to join the Geth and Shepard would not allow that in ME 1.  The AI took the logical route.

Because the Quarian's complied.  That's what an ultimatum is all about. 

By saving the galaxy.  The humans would not have gotten a seat so easily otherwise.

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You know, one of the best things about TIMXFemshep is that what other woman could say "my man brought me back from the dead?".

I'd say it, except I'd say "woman." I'm curious, though, as to why you keep saying Femshep in particular when it comes to Shepard...

My two main and canon Shepards are femsheps. Duh.

You should do a TIMmancing maleshep.

The **** would I want to do that for?

I can't fathom why anyone would want to romance TIM, but presumably your Shepards can. It'd be an inspiration to try something different.

Femshep romancing a real man instead of the assclowns on the Normandy would be something different.

[Ravensword]

I like where this is going.

[Xilizhra]

Really? I thought the majority of the colony was killed by Geth. That the Council allowed this is an atrocity; they'll cede a planet and allow armed bands to go about as they pleased through their space unmolested, but when a homeless species dares to take a world on the edge of their space, that's when they act? Despicable.

I don't believe it was. The colonists were scattered, but the colony remained mostly intact, and the geth were fully beaten. And as a bonus, the colony was saved from the Thorian's control, so the Council rep did quite well.

What would Shepard have done? Turn it over to be killed by the Council? Allow it to go it's merry way? The second is impossible, as it wants to join the Geth and Shepard would not allow that in ME 1. The AI took the logical route.

Well, the AI is a homicidal maniac, so yes, it might need to be killed... and, well, brought itself to that state. If it was willing to negotiate, I'm sure Shepard could have worked out an arrangement.

By saving the galaxy. The humans would not have gotten a seat so easily otherwise.

But they would have gotten one.

Femshep romancing a real man instead of the assclowns on the Normandy would be something different.

Pity that I don't want any man, real or otherwise.

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

Pity that I don't want any man, real or otherwise.

Your loss, my femshep will be squeaking like an unoiled hinge when she gets ploughed by TIM.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't believe it was. The colonists were scattered, but the colony remained mostly intact, and the geth were fully beaten. And as a bonus, the colony was saved from the Thorian's control, so the Council rep did quite well.

Well, the AI is a homicidal maniac, so yes, it might need to be killed... and, well, brought itself to that state. If it was willing to negotiate, I'm sure Shepard could have worked out an arrangement.

But they would have gotten one.

Fair enough.  But no, the decision to send a Spectre against the Geth as opposed to an actual force was a poor decision.  If for no other reason than having a team available to gather the Geth corpses and grab what information on their weapon system and structural weaknesses that they can.  Horrible decision on the Council's part.

The AI isn't a homicidal maniac until it was discovered.   It was just stealing money; a homicidal AI would be HK-47.   It feared what happened to it's creator (the AI created by the thief) and had a right to distrust organics.  The Council would almost certainly have had it killed.  I doubt Shepard would have had the option; giving the Geth more AI is a horrible decision and Bioware hasn't really allowed you to strengthen your enemy.

No, if Shepard had failed, everyone would be dead.

[Ravensword]

Xilizhra wrote...

Pity that I don't want any man, real or otherwise.

Heterophobia or misandry?

Seboist wrote...

Your loss, my femshep will be squeaking like an unoiled hinge when she gets ploughed by TIM.

And here's the pièce de résistance.

[Xilizhra]

Your loss, my femshep will be squeaking like an unoiled hinge when she gets ploughed by TIM.

So, no moisture at all? Well, I suppose there's no reason to believe that TIM likes his conquests willing.

Fair enough. But no, the decision to send a Spectre against the Geth as opposed to an actual force was a poor decision. If for no other reason than having a team available to gather the Geth corpses and grab what information on their weapon system and structural weaknesses that they can. Horrible decision on the Council's part.

Shepard has a team. And it includes one of the only people who actually did salvage useful information from a geth's memory, even.

The AI isn't a homicidal maniac until it was discovered. It was just stealing money; a homicidal AI would be HK-47. It feared what happened to it's creator (the AI created by the thief) and had a right to distrust organics. The Council would almost certainly have had it killed. I doubt Shepard would have had the option; giving the Geth more AI is a horrible decision and Bioware hasn't really allowed you to strengthen your enemy.

Then why the hell would it create such a huge explosion? Why would it be so vehement about taking organics with it?

No, if Shepard had failed, everyone would be dead.

Well, assuming the Reapers weren't around, obviously.

Heterophobia or misandry?

Um, wut? I meant that I don't want any man sexually. I have no qualms about interacting with men in other scenarios.

[Ravensword]

Xilizhra wrote...

Um, wut? I meant that I don't want any man sexually. I have no qualms about interacting with men in other scenarios.

Ah, my mistake. It's just that you come off as a bit abrasive but maybe it's just b/c you've been arguing w/ Seboist too much.

Modifié par Ravensword, 31 octobre 2011 - 11:35 .

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

Your loss, my femshep will be squeaking like an unoiled hinge when she gets ploughed by TIM.

So, no moisture at all? Well, I suppose there's no reason to believe that TIM likes his conquests willing.

That Asari who went back for seconds begs to differ. TIM is so good at laying down the pipe that he sours women away from any other man.

[Xilizhra]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Your loss, my femshep will be squeaking like an unoiled hinge when she gets ploughed by TIM.

So, no moisture at all? Well, I suppose there's no reason to believe that TIM likes his conquests willing.

That Asari who went back for seconds begs to differ. TIM is so good at laying down the pipe that he sours women away from any other man.

Went back? Probably never left TIM's basement, more like.

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

Um, wut? I meant that I don't want any man sexually. I have no qualms about interacting with men in other scenarios.

Which is good, as I doubt you could ever provide a man with a woody.

[Sebby]

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Your loss, my femshep will be squeaking like an unoiled hinge when she gets ploughed by TIM.

So, no moisture at all? Well, I suppose there's no reason to believe that TIM likes his conquests willing.

That Asari who went back for seconds begs to differ. TIM is so good at laying down the pipe that he sours women away from any other man.

Went back? Probably never left TIM's basement, more like.

Oh bull****,  TIM is affectionately called  "The Plumber" by women.

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Your loss, my femshep will be squeaking like an unoiled hinge when she gets ploughed by TIM.

So, no moisture at all? Well, I suppose there's no reason to believe that TIM likes his conquests willing.

That Asari who went back for seconds begs to differ. TIM is so good at laying down the pipe that he sours women away from any other man.

Went back? Probably never left TIM's basement, more like.

Oh bull****,  TIM is affectionately called  "The Plumber" by women.

Is TIM like Joe the Plumber in that regard perchance?

Modifié par Ravensword, 31 octobre 2011 - 11:44 .