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Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread


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#326
CoronadoRose

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Seboist wrote...

rpgfan321 wrote...

I wonder, in ME's future, cancer is cured because at every conversation with TIM I think 'how can a man not be sick when he smokes so much?' Jeez... and his cigarettes never run out. ^.^
I thought cigars would be to his liking because those are more expensive?


The Retribution novel states that lung cancer is no longer a problem.


Out of curiosity since I haven't read it (yet), how did they work that info into the novel?

#327
Homebound

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^does TiM invest cerberus moneyz into curing nicotine addiction?

#328
ubermensch007

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Seboist wrote...

Image showing a halo behind TIM's head proving that he's a messenger from the almighty.

Image IPB

Those who destroyed the Collector base not only angered him but God herself! Beware sinners!


Image IPB

That's all I got to say.
Aww man... What planet are you from Seboist? :P

Modifié par ubermensch007, 27 août 2011 - 05:14 .


#329
KnightofPhoenix

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laecraft wrote...
The only other person who impresses me as much is Hackett in ME1. The man has a nerve. Shepard's been made a Spectre, with no obligations to follow the Alliance orders. And Hackett calls him and assigns him missions as if it's business as usual. And the most fun thing is, he manages to sound in such a way that it doesn't even occur to you to decline. He sounds authoritative, while he's nothing but a supplicant. That takes some balls. And that's not to mention that moment in the Arrival when he comes ON BOARD OF NORMANDY. I thought I'd pass out when I saw that. That man can bluff, I'll give him that. He walks like he belongs. And it never even occurs to Shepard to kick him out! Even though it most certainly occurred to me. That takes skill.


Hackett is also a manipulator. In the assignment: The Negotiation, Hackett deliberately chooses a Renegade Shepard expecting him / her to kill Darius, while making a lousy effort to convince the commander to negotiate.

In some ways, he is being a reverse mirror (very interesting and astute obersvation on TIM behaving like a mirror and telling you what you want to hear). He is acting like an undecisive pencil pusher who wants to bargain with criminals like Darius, perhaps thinking that such an attitude is very likely to ****** a Renegade off and push him to do the opposite (sort of like reverse psyschology). Hackett also knows that Darius is a delusional arrogant little.

So I definitely liked Hackett and it was a shame we only met him face to face in Arrival.

#330
KnightofPhoenix

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Ashwraith wrote...

The Red Oni -associated with passion, wildness, and defiance- is (of course) Commander Shepard. Although often as intelligent as his or her counterpart, this archetype is much more emotionally driven, impulsive, and physical. Whereas the blue oni puts a lot of focus onto higher goals, causes, or codes of behavior, the red is usually more concerned with people- thus, (s)he often comes across as the more humanitarian of the two.

The Blue Oni -intellectual, proud, and cultured- is the Illusive Man, Shepard's polar opposite. They are strategic where the Red Oni is direct; calm and composed where the other is reactionist. While often respected by others, Blue Oni archetypes are difficult to read, and often have a mysterious or unfathomable quality to them. When written as villains, they're usually utterly ruthless- ready to do or sacrifice anything (and often anyone) in order to accomplish their goals.


****. Am I making any kind of logical sense? I'm posting this at midnight and I've been at work all day, so I have to wonder if anything that sounds good in my head is translating to the screen in a coherent fashion. This could be several paragraphs of nothing but 'e's, for all I know.


Yes, you are making a lot of sense.

And I agree. That's why I love Wrex leaving Shepard. He gets to get out of his / her shadow and becomes something much more impressive, imo, than the commander. TIM is one of the few NPCs that can stand in front of Shepard as equals (imo, he is superior and more impressive, but that's a problem in Bioware games, ME2 specifically: the overblowng of Shepard's importance).

With my Shepard, I rped that he felt respect towards the man and believed it was at least slightly reciprocated. He evidently did not fully trust him however.

#331
Seboist

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CoronadoRose wrote...

Seboist wrote...

rpgfan321 wrote...

I wonder, in ME's future, cancer is cured because at every conversation with TIM I think 'how can a man not be sick when he smokes so much?' Jeez... and his cigarettes never run out. ^.^
I thought cigars would be to his liking because those are more expensive?


The Retribution novel states that lung cancer is no longer a problem.


Out of curiosity since I haven't read it (yet), how did they work that info into the novel?


It's in the first chapter where it discusses him and his personal space station. It described that he enjoyed Earth made liquor and tobacco since it reminded him of his old life back home as just another normal wealthy citizen and how it could all be gone tomorrow due to the Reaper threat.

#332
Seboist

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hackett is also a manipulator. In the assignment: The Negotiation, Hackett deliberately chooses a Renegade Shepard expecting him / her to kill Darius, while making a lousy effort to convince the commander to negotiate.

In some ways, he is being a reverse mirror (very interesting and astute obersvation on TIM behaving like a mirror and telling you what you want to hear). He is acting like an undecisive pencil pusher who wants to bargain with criminals like Darius, perhaps thinking that such an attitude is very likely to ****** a Renegade off and push him to do the opposite (sort of like reverse psyschology). Hackett also knows that Darius is a delusional arrogant little.

So I definitely liked Hackett and it was a shame we only met him face to face in Arrival.


I wish they'd made Hackett one of those Pro-Cerberus Alliance personnel. He did seem to know more about the Akuze incident in the briefing of the "missing scientists" side mission in ME1 than he was letting on....

#333
xeonce

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 ANYONE WITH BLUE SHARAINGAN IS WITHOUT A DOUBT A BOSS:ph34r:

#334
Asenza

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xeonce wrote...

 ANYONE WITH BLUE SHARAINGAN IS WITHOUT A DOUBT A BOSS:ph34r:


Lol. Cerberus of the Darkness Flame!

#335
CoronadoRose

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Seboist wrote...

CoronadoRose wrote...

Seboist wrote...

rpgfan321 wrote...

I wonder, in ME's future, cancer is cured because at every conversation with TIM I think 'how can a man not be sick when he smokes so much?' Jeez... and his cigarettes never run out. ^.^
I thought cigars would be to his liking because those are more expensive?


The Retribution novel states that lung cancer is no longer a problem.


Out of curiosity since I haven't read it (yet), how did they work that info into the novel?


It's in the first chapter where it discusses him and his personal space station. It described that he enjoyed Earth made liquor and tobacco since it reminded him of his old life back home as just another normal wealthy citizen and how it could all be gone tomorrow due to the Reaper threat.


Ahh, I see. Thanks.^_^ I really need to get that book...

#336
Seboist

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TIM/Cerberus wallpaper

Image IPB

#337
rpgfan321

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Seboist wrote...

It's in the first chapter where it discusses him and his personal space station. It described that he enjoyed Earth made liquor and tobacco since it reminded him of his old life back home as just another normal wealthy citizen and how it could all be gone tomorrow due to the Reaper threat.


Oops. ... I always forget the little details!!! :happy:

#338
Charsi

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Seboist wrote...

TIM/Cerberus wallpaper

Image IPB


Image IPB

There's our RL illusive man ^^ Jon Briddell

Modifié par Charsi, 01 septembre 2011 - 11:12 .


#339
Wereparrot

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Ashwraith wrote...

I'm still holding out for a schism between the main bulk of Cerberus and its leader. The writers have gone on record as saying he hasn't been indoctrinated (here read 'his mind is his own'), though of course that could always be a red herring.


I just read in the confirmed features thread that TIM is an antagonist (this is the first time I've really looked at it). This would indicate that there is no schism. What a joke: billions of credits down and as you say not indoctrinated. What's the point? I sincerely hope it isn't just to satisfy a collective left-wing political leaning amongst the devs; there'd better be a good reason for this to make it believable.

#340
The Everchosen of Chaos

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I agree. It better be well explained otherwise it'll be a "you have failed me for the last time Bioware" situation and I honestly like Bioware and their games. it's just that I hate it when developers make unexpected and unexplained plot changes and then you can't do anything thing about it especially in RPGs when everything is supposedly your choice or a consequence of your choices.

It's what they did in Dragon age 2, forcing me to stick to the bloody same city all the time and not really doing anything worthwhile, and then the ending sucks and its permanent! what the hell Bioware? If I want a plot and an ending that can't be changed then I'll go play COD or something. I'm really annoyed now with this whole Cerberus and TIM situation. At least confirm that it will be different for everyone Bioware, make it an exception not the rule.
Otherwise it feels like our decisions don't matter.

#341
Seboist

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Wereparrot wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

I'm still holding out for a schism between the main bulk of Cerberus and its leader. The writers have gone on record as saying he hasn't been indoctrinated (here read 'his mind is his own'), though of course that could always be a red herring.


I just read in the confirmed features thread that TIM is an antagonist (this is the first time I've really looked at it). This would indicate that there is no schism. What a joke: billions of credits down and as you say not indoctrinated. What's the point? I sincerely hope it isn't just to satisfy a collective left-wing political leaning amongst the devs; there'd better be a good reason for this to make it believable.


There's no doubt Bioware is made up of bleeding heart liberals that have a moral dilemma with trying to portray anything non-pc in a fair manner. One great indicator of this is the Terra Firma sidequest in ME1 where the bias of the devs is apparent with the quest called "our own worst enemy" and questions asked to Charles Saracino has Shepard sounding like a politically correct establishment robot.  Then there's the renegade Collector base decision where in the games files it describes it as giving it to "space n@zis"

#342
The Everchosen of Chaos

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Pfft. Damn liberals, they don't know squat all. In reality, in the face of disaster democracy is one of the first things to go out of the window, that along with any notion of free rights. If you want to survive you have to rule with an iron fist and naturally have all of the resources, things like morality are just an inconvenience.

It's not the survival of the fittest but the Survival of the Ruthless. Aka Dictatorship is the way to go.

#343
Wereparrot

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The Everchosen of Chaos wrote...

Pfft. Damn liberals, they don't know squat all. In reality, in the face of disaster democracy is one of the first things to go out of the window, that along with any notion of free rights. If you want to survive you have to rule with an iron fist and naturally have all of the resources, things like morality are just an inconvenience.

It's not the survival of the fittest but the Survival of the Ruthless. Aka Dictatorship is the way to go.


I hear you there. In war, generally perceived notions of morality go out of the window faster than an escaping convict; even carpet bombing and chevauchée are justified if the need for such tactics is there. Terrible things, but if needs must...

#344
Seboist

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Yep and realistically Cerberus would be given immunity for their data and contributions to the Reaper war just like America did for Unit 731's personnel after WW2.

#345
Guest_laecraft_*

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If you've been listening to Mr. Silverman, Cerberus is now an "anti-alien" organization. Apparently, they're no longer pro-human. That's why they're trying to stop you from allying and strengthening the aliens. There's our big mystery.

And, in typical Cerberus fashion, they're expressing their anti-alien views by trying to kill the only human who can save the Earth.

It might not make a lot of sense, but only for those who don't know Cerberus well. Here, let me explain.

Fun facts about Cerberus:

1. Throughout both games, they have never hurt an alien.

2. They have, however, slaughtered humans in scores, particularly their own personnel.

They're all about sacrifice. And the closer the victim to the Cerberus agent in charge, the better. Blood brothers and adopted daughters are preferable. Humanity's best trained soldiers are acceptable. Most brilliant human scientists are tolerable. If nothing else, it has to be a human. They don't experiment on aliens. They don't even care about them.

So, considering that Shepard is both a former Cerberus associate and human, it is logical that they would try to kill him. He's like a never-ending reserve. Shepard can take a lot of punishment.

The problem with Cerberus is that the writers never made up their minds if they wanted an "extremist" organization or a "mad scientists" one. As a result, Cerberus is known as extremists (which is supposed to make them dangerous for aliens), but they act like scientists dealing with highly volatile tech and guided by the deadline rather than ethics (which makes them dangerous for the humans unfortunate enough to take part in their experiments - both the scientists and the subjects are equally endangered).

So, if you want to kill aliens? Don't join Cerberus. You won't be getting what you want. Join the Reds, instead.

But if you want to die in the most gruesome and unexpected fashion? If you want to kill humans in the ways you've never thought possible? If you want to see horrors the likes of which you've never even imagined, and fall prey to them? If you want your last emotions before your death to be shock, confusion, and surprise?

Join Cerberus. Your death will benefit the future of humanity. Your sacrifice will not be in vain.

#346
Seboist

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Cerberus are the whipping boys of the devs along with the Batarians and to a lesser extent the Vorcha. Whenever they need an enemy for whatever convenient reason they choose them since they don't have to worry about too much negative fan reaction.

#347
CoronadoRose

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Wereparrot wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

I'm still holding out for a schism between the main bulk of Cerberus and its leader. The writers have gone on record as saying he hasn't been indoctrinated (here read 'his mind is his own'), though of course that could always be a red herring.


I just read in the confirmed features thread that TIM is an antagonist (this is the first time I've really looked at it). This would indicate that there is no schism. What a joke: billions of credits down and as you say not indoctrinated. What's the point? I sincerely hope it isn't just to satisfy a collective left-wing political leaning amongst the devs; there'd better be a good reason for this to make it believable.


Damn it. I haven't seen anything offical referring to TIM specifically, just tons about Cerberus so I thought maybe there was hope he would be an ally, but I guess not. :( So much for him having the "best and worst traits of humanity". <_<

Why did they even bother making Cerberus an ally in ME2 if they were going to make all of them villians anyway? It makes the fact you could be a total Ceberus lapdog with your answers with other characters completely pointless. It isn't even interesting in a "oh you did everything they said and they still turned on you!!!" way because everyone is telling you not to trust them. It would have been more interesting had they been on the up and up and turned out to be a great ally again in ME3. At least to me it would have been. It doesn't even make sense in a "the plot demands it!" way, Cerberus...::sigh:: I'm done with ME for now. I hate that my favorite NPC is going to be just another cardboard cutout villian. Hopefully the justification is good otherwise I may just forget about ME altogether.

That thought makes me sad. :(

Modifié par CoronadoRose, 01 septembre 2011 - 10:42 .


#348
Seboist

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CoronadoRose wrote...

Damn it. I haven't seen anything offical referring to TIM specifically, just tons about Cerberus so I thought maybe there was hope he would be an ally, but I guess not. :( So much for him having the "best and worst traits of humanity". <_<

Why did they even bother making Cerberus an ally in ME2 if they were going to make all of them villians anyway? It makes the fact you could be a total Ceberus lapdog with your answers with other characters completely pointless. It isn't even interesting in a "oh you did everything they said and they still turned on you!!!" way because everyone is telling you not to trust them. It would have been more interesting had they been on the up and up and turned out to be a great ally again in ME3. At least to me it would have been. It doesn't even make sense in a "the plot demands it!" way, Cerberus...::sigh:: I'm done with ME for now. I hate that my favorite NPC is going to be just another cardboard cutout villian. Hopefully the justification is good otherwise I may just forget about ME altogether.

That thought makes me sad. :(


That sadly fits in with the way all the other renegade choices have been handled where Shepard just shoot herself in the foot and ends up looking like a fool. It's plain to see that the Renegade path is just the Paragon one with joke dialogue, less content and is there to hide the story's linearity and nothing more.

Oh well, I can just consider the game non-canon and create my own story where the reason why femshep and TIM are at odds with each other is due to him not wanting to make child support payments or something. :lol:

#349
CoronadoRose

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^ Yeah, you're probably right. That is particularly evident with the whole Samara/Morinth thing.<_<

#350
Wereparrot

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CoronadoRose wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

Ashwraith wrote...

I'm still holding out for a schism between the main bulk of Cerberus and its leader. The writers have gone on record as saying he hasn't been indoctrinated (here read 'his mind is his own'), though of course that could always be a red herring.


I just read in the confirmed features thread that TIM is an antagonist (this is the first time I've really looked at it). This would indicate that there is no schism. What a joke: billions of credits down and as you say not indoctrinated. What's the point? I sincerely hope it isn't just to satisfy a collective left-wing political leaning amongst the devs; there'd better be a good reason for this to make it believable.


Damn it. I haven't seen anything offical referring to TIM specifically, just tons about Cerberus so I thought maybe there was hope he would be an ally, but I guess not. :( So much for him having the "best and worst traits of humanity". <_<

Why did they even bother making Cerberus an ally in ME2 if they were going to make all of them villians anyway? It makes the fact you could be a total Ceberus lapdog with your answers with other characters completely pointless. It isn't even interesting in a "oh you did everything they said and they still turned on you!!!" way because everyone is telling you not to trust them. It would have been more interesting had they been on the up and up and turned out to be a great ally again in ME3. At least to me it would have been. It doesn't even make sense in a "the plot demands it!" way, Cerberus...::sigh:: I'm done with ME for now. I hate that my favorite NPC is going to be just another cardboard cutout villian. Hopefully the justification is good otherwise I may just forget about ME altogether.

That thought makes me sad. :(


Exactly; it's one heck of an anticlimax.

Strange, I thought this was an RPG. Bioware: 'Shepard, you are going to save the universe, but you will do it our way or you will not do it at all.' Is it just me, or has the reaper threat lost some of it's menace, if the shrewdest man in the galaxy turns against you for what appears to be no good reason?
 

Modifié par Wereparrot, 02 septembre 2011 - 08:57 .