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@Dean
Fair enough.
Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread
Débuté par
Lambda Faction
, juil. 09 2011 10:26
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#3602
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 03:20
Dean_the_Young
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@SandTrout
Witticism about using @ symbol.
Witticism about using @ symbol.
#3603
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 03:24
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Another fanart of the man himself.
Link.
Comment from the DA page:
Femsheps everywhere agree with that statement. <3
Link.
Comment from the DA page:
What a handsome fellow there! And such prettyful arts as always - but I've learned not to expect less from you anyway.
This only urges on my twisted fascination with TIM and we all know where that might eventually lead...
Femsheps everywhere agree with that statement. <3
#3604
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 03:38
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Mordin transcends the notions of Renegade - Paragon system. My Shepard wants to be like him. Mordin is a Renegade with a heart. He's doing what's necessary, but he's not desensitized. It makes him more human than if he didn't feel anything about it. And he's enjoying himself on the battlefield. I love him for being such a multi-dimensional character. He takes the best from both PR worlds.
He proved himself capable of seeing the bigger picture and not shying away from hard choices. I can trust him to do what's necessary at the end, no matter what his emotions say about it. At the same time, he has very strict ethics, and he recognizes potential of all life. It's the perfect balance.
Mordin is the only teammate whose opinion I can trust and whose advice I want to listen to. He's pretty much the only one whose words would give me a pause if he told me that I went too far. My Shepard needs his perspective to keep himself from slipping into the abyss. It would suck if I can't have Mordin as my most trusted advisor in ME3.
He's one of the characters who made the game compelling for me. One of those who make the galaxy worth fighting for. Perfect for anthropomorphizing the galaxy.
Alas, my inner circle is being torn apart. Wrex will stay with his people, naturally. We're going to lose TIM. And now if I lose Mordin as well, how am I supposed to win this war... The night is falling. I'm going to have to face the Reapers alone.
He proved himself capable of seeing the bigger picture and not shying away from hard choices. I can trust him to do what's necessary at the end, no matter what his emotions say about it. At the same time, he has very strict ethics, and he recognizes potential of all life. It's the perfect balance.
Mordin is the only teammate whose opinion I can trust and whose advice I want to listen to. He's pretty much the only one whose words would give me a pause if he told me that I went too far. My Shepard needs his perspective to keep himself from slipping into the abyss. It would suck if I can't have Mordin as my most trusted advisor in ME3.
He's one of the characters who made the game compelling for me. One of those who make the galaxy worth fighting for. Perfect for anthropomorphizing the galaxy.
Alas, my inner circle is being torn apart. Wrex will stay with his people, naturally. We're going to lose TIM. And now if I lose Mordin as well, how am I supposed to win this war... The night is falling. I'm going to have to face the Reapers alone.
Modifié par laecraft, 04 novembre 2011 - 03:39 .
#3605
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 03:41
SandTrout
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And I'm one of the few Paragons that frequently comes to TIM's defense. I consider myself more of a Paragon with a brain. I'm not looking to cause undue complications, but I know when to set aside feelings when a job needs to get done.
#3606
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 03:53
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Mordin's one of the best characters. His words of wisdom in his loyalty mission showed the great potential danger of curing the genophage and made me skeptical of how long lasting Wrex's reforms would be. That's why I ended up taking the neutral "keep the data just in case" choice to use it as leverage with the Krogan.
The only thing missing from his LM is someone pointing out to Paragon Shepard that by curing the genophage s/he's undermining the Council,which is part of the reason why I kept the data.
The only thing missing from his LM is someone pointing out to Paragon Shepard that by curing the genophage s/he's undermining the Council,which is part of the reason why I kept the data.
#3607
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 03:59
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SandTrout wrote...
And I'm one of the few Paragons that frequently comes to TIM's defense. I consider myself more of a Paragon with a brain. I'm not looking to cause undue complications, but I know when to set aside feelings when a job needs to get done.
There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason behind the system beyond Paragon tends to save things while Renegade kills/destroys them.
Some of the "Paragon" choices like letting the Rachni loose into the galaxy or curing the genophage seem like something an anti-establishment troublemaker would want to do(you know a renegade), while doing the opposite fits the mold of someone who favors the status-quo.
#3608
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:02
HogarthHughes 3
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Seboist wrote...
Mordin's one of the best characters. His words of wisdom in his loyalty mission showed the great potential danger of curing the genophage and made me skeptical of how long lasting Wrex's reforms would be. That's why I ended up taking the neutral "keep the data just in case" choice to use it as leverage with the Krogan.
The only thing missing from his LM is someone pointing out to Paragon Shepard that by curing the genophage s/he's undermining the Council,which is part of the reason why I kept the data.
But what if humans control the Council, do you still want to undermine them then?
#3609
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:07
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Dean_the_Young wrote...
It's not even that Renegade is 'doesn't care to help people' or 'without ethics.'
You generally get Paragon points for helping people. It's Paragon.
laecraft wrote...
Mordin transcends the notions of Renegade - Paragon system. My Shepard wants to be like him.
Funny. My Shepard always wanted to be Saren. In my first playthrough of ME1 he was always asking himself "What would Saren do?"
To a degree, this comes up with TIM in ME2. I generally feel like my Shepard is being out-of-character whenever he and TIM are revealed to have a difference in style. It's part of why I don't send Veetor back with Tali and a reason I'm torn on Legion. I'm not sure if I'm leaking into my roleplay in this case or not though.
Modifié par Saphra Deden, 04 novembre 2011 - 05:13 .
#3610
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:12
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So, I wonder. If I help the Reapers...does that make me a Paragon?
#3611
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:13
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laecraft wrote...
So, I wonder. If I help the Reapers...does that make me a Paragon?
If I help the Columbian Cartel kill off troublesome witnesses, am I a paragon?
#3612
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:19
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HogarthHughes 3 wrote...
Seboist wrote...
Mordin's one of the best characters. His words of wisdom in his loyalty mission showed the great potential danger of curing the genophage and made me skeptical of how long lasting Wrex's reforms would be. That's why I ended up taking the neutral "keep the data just in case" choice to use it as leverage with the Krogan.
The only thing missing from his LM is someone pointing out to Paragon Shepard that by curing the genophage s/he's undermining the Council,which is part of the reason why I kept the data.
Well, I haven't a freaking clue who the new council even are, let alone what they represent.
#3613
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:22
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
It's not even that Renegade is 'doesn't care to help people' or 'without ethics.'
You generally get Paragon points for helping people. It's Paragon.laecraft wrote...
Mordin transcends the notions of Renegade - Paragon system. My Shepard wants to be like him.
Funny. My Shepard always wanted to be Saren. In my first playthrough of ME1 he was always asking himself "What would Saren do?"
To a degree, this comes up with TIM in ME2. I generally feel like my Shepard is being out-of-character whenever he and TIM are revealed to have a difference in style. It's part of why I don't send Veetor back with Tali and a reason I'm torn on Legion. I'm not sure if I'm leaking into my roleplay in this case or not though.
Same here especially after keeping the base. I wanted to be on good terms with Cerberus since they proved themselves to be a useful ally and then all of a sudden my Shepard starts acting like she's on her period and gets uppidity with TIM for no reason.
#3614
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:23
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Helping the rachni, the krogan, and the geth is Paragon. Why are the Reapers excluded?
#3615
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:26
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laecraft wrote...
Helping the rachni, the krogan, and the geth is Paragon. Why are the Reapers excluded?
That kind of behavior is something a Shepard who aspires to be Saren 2.0 would do..... which is why I have my main one do them.
#3616
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:29
HogarthHughes 3
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Seboist wrote...
HogarthHughes 3 wrote...
Well, I haven't a freaking clue who the new council even are, let alone what they represent.
If the Destiny Ascension is destroyed as a renegade the news reports along with the intro (including TIMs words) all make it clear that the new Council is at the very least human dominated. It sucks that we cannot see them even indrectly, but it kinda makes sense for them to avoid meeting with something as politically toxic as a Cerberus agent.
#3617
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:30
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Because when you help the other three, they actually appear grateful and ready to help you in return.laecraft wrote...
Helping the rachni, the krogan, and the geth is Paragon. Why are the Reapers excluded?
The Reapers' gratitude for your help would be more like this:
#3618
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:32
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laecraft wrote...
Helping the rachni, the krogan, and the geth is Paragon. Why are the Reapers excluded?
'cause they're "wrong". Same reason it is not Paragon to help Cerberus.
#3619
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:32
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Oh, I don't want my Shepard to be remembered as a second version of anyone. I'll wreak my own havoc and devastation across the galaxy, completely outshining Saren. Paragon-style. I'll do Good for everyone, in equal amounts.
Unless Mordin is here to ask me what the hell I'm doing, of course.
#3620
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:40
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It's just like how Paragon shoves guns in the RIGHT people's faces while Renegade shoves them in the WRONG people's faces. There's a clear subtle difference between the two ya know.
#3621
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:49
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iOnlySignIn wrote...
Because when you help the other three, they actually appear grateful and ready to help you in return.laecraft wrote...
Helping the rachni, the krogan, and the geth is Paragon. Why are the Reapers excluded?
The Reapers' gratitude for your help would be more like this:
The video you posted would suit the rachni Queen perfectly. "Remember what I told you that we'll help you fight against the Reapers? I lied."
The krogan gratitude. At 07:05.
Let's just hope that Wrex manages to control them. Well, and there's Shepard's magic in ME3.
As for the geth, we all know they could be reprogrammed in a blink. When the Reapers are here, it would be even easier for them to influence the geth. I'll trust the geth when the project Overlord is successfully completed.
#3622
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 05:59
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I really don't think that all the species should be available to everyone as allies. If the Paragon and Renegade paths are to be considered equal, then either path should be able to get something the other path can't. Something equally beneficial. Perhaps have asari available as allies to Paragons and the krogan as allies to Renegades.
Or better yet, just ditch the entire PR system, and force us to choose between the rival allies and factions. We have to choose between LIs, we can't have both at the same time, why can't the same rule apply to species and factions? That'd create equally attractive and completely different paths to play the game.
Or better yet, just ditch the entire PR system, and force us to choose between the rival allies and factions. We have to choose between LIs, we can't have both at the same time, why can't the same rule apply to species and factions? That'd create equally attractive and completely different paths to play the game.
Modifié par laecraft, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:13 .
#3623
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 06:05
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laecraft wrote...
I don't think that all the species should be available to everyone as allies. If the Paragon and Renegade paths are to be considered equal, then either path should be able to get something the other path can't. Something equally beneficial. Perhaps have asari available as allies to Paragons and the krogan as allies to Renegades.
Or better yet, just ditch the entire PR system, and force us to choose between the rival allies and factions. We have to choose between LIs, we can't have both at the same time, why can't the same rule apply to species and factions? That'd create equally attractive and completely different paths to play the game.
Indeed, they should have DA:O and Witcher style "us or them" style faction choices like Geth vs Quarian, Citadel/Council vs Terminus, Rachni vs Krogan,etc.
It would be awesome if I could saddle up with a posse of Geth against the Quarians or vice versa. That would be some real replayability.
#3624
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 06:14
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That would also be honest. The whole holier-than-thou system tastes sour with hypocrisy for me. You chose to fight the Reapers to protect "your own people," it's fine to genocide an entire species composed of thousands of nations to defend the galaxy of only a few nations who resist with all their might to being saved, but fighting for humanity and saving them whatever the cost because you're a human and these are your people who showed that they worth it is suddenly a bad thing?
Or maybe fighting for survival is a good thing, but fighting for advancement is bad? I wonder, if the Reapers offered the galaxy a peace pact - they'd let us live, but only if they bomb us into a stone age, would Paragons agree to this? Would the anti-TIM people agree to have the galaxy live at the brink of survival, their population controlled and their lives sustained by machines, like the krogan and the quarians live? Somehow I doubt so.
Honestly this was screwed from the start, perhaps because of the whole "species = nation" thing, so everyone who wants to be loyal to their people and wants to fight for their faction is labeled a speciest douchebag. If the devs simply gave us two completely new factions to choose from, unrelated to your own species, that wouldn't have been a problem. DA2 got it right with the mages against templars utterly fictional thing...even though they got almost everything else wrong.
Or maybe fighting for survival is a good thing, but fighting for advancement is bad? I wonder, if the Reapers offered the galaxy a peace pact - they'd let us live, but only if they bomb us into a stone age, would Paragons agree to this? Would the anti-TIM people agree to have the galaxy live at the brink of survival, their population controlled and their lives sustained by machines, like the krogan and the quarians live? Somehow I doubt so.
Honestly this was screwed from the start, perhaps because of the whole "species = nation" thing, so everyone who wants to be loyal to their people and wants to fight for their faction is labeled a speciest douchebag. If the devs simply gave us two completely new factions to choose from, unrelated to your own species, that wouldn't have been a problem. DA2 got it right with the mages against templars utterly fictional thing...even though they got almost everything else wrong.
Modifié par laecraft, 04 novembre 2011 - 06:21 .
#3625
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 04 novembre 2011 - 07:03
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Xilizhra wrote...
So, wait. Do you support the genophage?
Of course I do. It allowed the krogan to survive till the Reaper invasion, where the parameters would change so much that it might be possible to cure them without them becoming a threat to the galaxy and to themselves.
If Mordin's team failed, the Council would've just wiped out the krogan completely with their bio-weapons. If, by some wild chance, the krogan were victorious, they would've wiped the galaxy out, and then the Reapers would have destroyed them.
The krogan are like infants who don't know what they're doing. The genophage bought them time to mature. It bought them a chance in the future. It did what Mordin intended it to do - preserve the potential. It might yet bring us an ally in the war against the Reapers, as well.
The genophage was painful, of course. The potental couldn't realize, cut short every time they tried, no future and no point in the present. Like keeping the essence in a jar for better times. I admire Mordin, he sticks to his goals while regretting the methods. He didn't close his eyes to the consequences of his work.
The blame is on those who carelessly uplifted the krogan in the first place to use them as cannon fodder in the rachni wars. The Council took away from the krogan their chance to mature properly on their own, and neither did they help the krogan with that. Mordin's team only did damage control.
