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Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread


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#376
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Seboist wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm sad to admit that I find the picture with the Paragon star a lot more amazing than the one with the Renegade star. The lighting is better.


Yeah and in the Paragon ending you can finally see TIM clearly.

Image IPB

God damn Paragon bias!


I love that sulking snapshot of TIM, he looks so exposed and pouty - almost vulnerable. Damn it, why must it be on Paragon path. It's not fair that Paragon bias affects even TIM's camera shots. I resent that a Paragon finally makes TIM shout, too. I wanted to see him lose control at last, he's way too composed all the time, but I don't want to destroy our only hope for it. And frankly, after watching that scene after Freedom's Progress, I think TIM prefers Paragons. So Paragons get to defy him, while being rewarded for it.

I guess a Paragon Shepard is just too awesome to pay the price for any of his actions. I wonder if the Renegade path is only there to make Paragons feel good about themselves for not taking it.

And I agree, here you can finally see him clearly, and one would think that a Renegade Shepard deserved as much. Let TIM remain all illusory to the rest of the world, but not to my Shepard. There are plenty of people who get to meet him in person, too - even Liara! - but not Shepard.

Didn't we deserve some favours, after all the hell we've been put through? Being a TIM fan is hardly enjoyable. Pro-Cerberus path is the road of pain. You don't get any congratulations from any of your squadmates if you keep the base - they only judge your actions. You don't get the same support from community comparing to other characters where people spam threads to hundreds of pages. Even a dev writer regards us as something like a shocking deviation. I didn't expect that it would be so hard for the writer to believe that TIM is worthy of support and respect - after TIM has been written this way.

And then we get punished for our allegiances. Severely. And we get left in the dark for a year, without any hope, and with nothing to look forward to.

You really need to have a lot of faith in TIM to continue sticking with him to the bitter end. And yes, after all that, I still believe that
TIM has the right idea, and that he's doing what must be done, while all those moral people are just sitting around, allowing humanity to be slaughtered like cattle.

I don't have as much faith in the writers, however. But I'll stick with TIM out of respect to him. He deserves all support he can get. I'll be right there with him when the writers massacre his character and I'll hear the sound of the core values being broken by the plot.

Modifié par laecraft, 11 septembre 2011 - 07:16 .


#377
Seboist

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There's one moment where a renegade dialogue option gets TIM to express some emotion and that's at the end of Jacob's LM. If Shepard picks "still toying with us" TIM says " You know very little about me, Shepard. Don't presume to understand my intentions. Cerberus is ultimately about humanity, my people are valuable to me." in a slightly irritated and somber tone. Damn, the more I think about him the more awesome I realize he is!

And yeah supporting TIM and Cerberus to the end makes one a glutton for punishment.

#378
Xilizhra

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I don't have as much faith in the writers, however. But I'll stick with TIM out of respect to him. He deserves all support he can get. I'll be right there with him when the writers massacre his character and I'll hear the sound of the core values being broken by the plot.

I don't think, if this is what was intended for TIM all along (which it sounds like), that the "core values" ever existed in the first place.

#379
CoronadoRose

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Just thought I'd share one of my current wallpapers. Sorry it isn't that good, I didn't spend that much time on it, I just felt like playing with Photoshop for a while.
I don't care if the IMDB thing is wrong and he has nothing  to do with ME3, John Briddell makes a great TIM. XD Btw, if you want to see the original manip, just ask. The orignal picture I used is in awful quality for a 1920x1080 wallpaper, so I just threw another couple layers to make it look a bit better.

Image IPB

Modifié par CoronadoRose, 11 septembre 2011 - 11:03 .


#380
ubermensch007

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Image IPB

This should be at the "Top of the page" but what can you do :P

#381
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Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think, if this is what was intended for TIM all along (which it sounds like), that the "core values" ever existed in the first place.


I don't think Bioware ever planned any of this out in the first place.

#382
Seboist

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ubermensch007 wrote...

Image IPB

This should be at the "Top of the page" but what can you do :P


TIM is going to be hit over the head with a frying pan when my Shepard finds out he was out dancing with another woman.

#383
rpgfan321

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When Shepard dances, it's awful.

But when TIM dances, ... IT IS GLORIOUS.

#384
Xilizhra

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think, if this is what was intended for TIM all along (which it sounds like), that the "core values" ever existed in the first place.


I don't think Bioware ever planned any of this out in the first place.

Maybe not in ME1, but I think they knew what to do with Cerberus through the rest of the series by ME2.

#385
Seboist

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Xilizhra wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think, if this is what was intended for TIM all along (which it sounds like), that the "core values" ever existed in the first place.


I don't think Bioware ever planned any of this out in the first place.

Maybe not in ME1, but I think they knew what to do with Cerberus through the rest of the series by ME2.


LOL no, otherwise they wouldn't have had EDI say Cerberus consists of 150 operatives or have Retribution state they suffered a lot of losses only to bounce back with a large miltiary capable of invading the freakin' Salarian homeworld.

#386
Dave of Canada

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Seboist wrote...

LOL no, otherwise they wouldn't have had EDI say Cerberus consists of 150 operatives or have Retribution state they suffered a lot of losses only to bounce back with a large miltiary capable of invading the freakin' Salarian homeworld.


And they wouldn't have made them 100% anti-Reaper.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:05 .


#387
Seboist

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It's clear that Cerberus function as "plot clay" that can be molded into whatever's convenient at the time. They and the Batarians are the two prime whipping boys of the series.

#388
CoronadoRose

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Seboist wrote...

It's clear that Cerberus function as "plot clay" that can be molded into whatever's convenient at the time. They and the Batarians are the two prime whipping boys of the series.


That's what it seems like to me too.

#389
Xilizhra

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LOL no, otherwise they wouldn't have had EDI say Cerberus consists of 150 operatives or have Retribution state they suffered a lot of losses only to bounce back with a large miltiary capable of invading the freakin' Salarian homeworld.

We don't know the details on that yet; in any case, "operatives" are elite forces akin to Miranda and Jacob. General Cerberus grunts/scientists/other people may exist in much larger quantities.

And they wouldn't have made them 100% anti-Reaper.

Times and information change. I believe TIM saw greater potential in the Reapers upon learning that humanity was their target for ascension.

It's clear that Cerberus function as "plot clay" that can be molded into whatever's convenient at the time. They and the Batarians are the two prime whipping boys of the series.

After getting a whole game where you were forced to be their attack dog? Please.

#390
Seboist

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Shepard and Cerberus are presented as being co-belligerents against the Collectors at best and s/he has almost complete autonomy from them. There's only one choice that solely about supporting them (sending Rawlings data to Cerberus Command) and negligible dialogue options for Shepard to say s/he supports them and their cause.

It's the Cerberus supporters that end up getting a raw deal here.

#391
S.A.K

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ubermensch007 wrote...

Image IPB

This should be at the "Top of the page" but what can you do :P

Never thought this dude could dance.B)

#392
Xilizhra

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Only one choice, but all of your mandatory actions also support them, or at least their own goals. I'm also fairly sure that the amount of dialogue for being pro- and anti-Cerberus is more or less the same.

#393
Dave of Canada

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Xilizhra wrote...

We don't know the details on that yet; in any case, "operatives" are elite forces akin to Miranda and Jacob. General Cerberus grunts/scientists/other people may exist in much larger quantities.


Jacob, who was standard security, is an operative.
Miranda, who was TIM's right hand (wo)man, is an operative.
Wilson, who was a scientist, was an operative.
The women on TIM's sitation are considered operatives.

Unless they've lied, it seems like anybody who's directly Cerberus counts as an operative.

#394
Xilizhra

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Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

We don't know the details on that yet; in any case, "operatives" are elite forces akin to Miranda and Jacob. General Cerberus grunts/scientists/other people may exist in much larger quantities.


Jacob, who was standard security, is an operative.
Miranda, who was TIM's right hand (wo)man, is an operative.
Wilson, who was a scientist, was an operative.
The women on TIM's sitation are considered operatives.

Unless they've lied, it seems like anybody who's directly Cerberus counts as an operative.

Considering Cerberus' appalling turnover rate, either that information is a bit distorted or Cerberus is very good indeed at quickly replenishing their numbers.

#395
Seboist

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Here's Mac Walters talking about ME1/2 Cerberus.

HG: When you start a game, you have tons of ideas for story. Can you
detail some things that were cut, but you wanted to stay in?

MW: There were whole plots of mine that were cut for Mass Effect 1. I
originally came up with the whole Cerberus plot line, which has a
bigger role in Mass Effect 2. You join the Illusive Man and his group.
There was a whole global plot, a plot that spanned many worlds involving
Cerberus in Mass Effect 1 that we ended up cutting. A few hints of that
plot remained, and that’s what we built on for ME2. The plot was
completely gone and the characters were gone. We built so much around
the Illusive Man for ME2.


http://nygamecritics...terview-part-1/

This would explain why they recieved so little development in ME1 and why the Banes and supersoldier plots went nowhere.

Modifié par Seboist, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:52 .


#396
Xilizhra

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That's why I admitted that they didn't have the whole thing worked out in ME1.

#397
Sepewrath

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Well they did likely have the story planned out, the details are just not set in stone, like lets say they were planning on killing Tali on X mission in ME2, well when they saw how popular the character was, the reworked it. Its the same overall story, with little tweaks.

#398
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I was just watching this little gem from bioware pulse. Old news (23 days ago), but just in case someone missed it. At 19:09 - they answer the question "Can we ally with Cerberus?"

The answer is, "LOL, ally with Cerberus? Cerberus is hellbent on taking Shepard down. You can't ally with people who want to kill you. That would be kind of counterproductive, wouldn't it. I guess you could ally with Ceberus - you just kill yourself. Just die in the game, stop playing, and good to go."

Sweet, isn't it? They're so funny. You people, who want to ally with Cerberus, just go kill yourselves. :lol: Honestly I can't help but laugh at this.

Anyway, I think this answers the question of whether or not we can ally with Cerberus. That wasn't even a non-answer like they do for other characters. Some of the messages from the writers are somewhat confusing on the subject. But I don't think their mocking answer leaves much room for misinterpretation.

#399
Seboist

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Well, it's quite apparent that all the Pro-Cerberus dialogue options and actions in ME2 were just there to have Shepard end up looking like a fool in the next game as with all Renegade ones.

They've claimed that we can role play whether or not we agreed with working with them, which I'm sure will just be Shepard crying out "TIM y u no liek me no'more?!?!".

#400
YouthCultureForever

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Great videos discussing TIM.

*Has the Cerberus agenda actually been the Reaper agenda all along? Image IPB

Part 1


Part 2


Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrT6xiGTYI&feature=relmfu

Modifié par YouthCultureForever, 12 septembre 2011 - 03:22 .