6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Over there you actually have people discussing the different paths and such as normal human beings without vitriol .

Quite frankly, I don't believe you. When both sides are equalish, the amount of vitriol is multiplied by quite a bit. Either the fanbase is so small that none of the standard idiots have joined, or everyone in the game is so evil that no one is morally invested in one side, and that doesn't even hold true for Warhammer 40K, so I find that exceedingly unlikely.

There's quite a bit of irony with those arrogant self-centered pricks who spew garbage like "you should have picked the winning side" while at the same time labeling the renegade path as the "douche" one.

I think you may have misunderstood those who were saying that it was a bad idea to pick the side of the deceptive terrorist leader because you might be thrown away.

[BlueMagitek]

It really doesn't matter who Shepard has been in bed with if the Reapers are defeated. ~_^

[GodWood]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Hell, there are Renegade decisions in ME1 and ME2 that are clearly the more productive choice.

The majority of the renegade decisions are the better choice.

But, as we get into ME2, Bioware seems to be unable to decide what "Renegade" actually means; it's very inconsistent.

If we isolate the decisions where Bioware seems to have decided that "Renegade" does in fact mean "giant space-douche LoL", then for those decisions, I have absolutely no problem with the results not being even -- I have no problem with people who decide to act that way paying for it.

What douchey decisions were there in ME2?

[Ravensword]

Where is the OP?

Modifié par Ravensword, 18 novembre 2011 - 10:22 .

[Sebby]

wiggles89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Like I've said in a group, Bioware couldn't come up with a mature morally grey story if their lives depended on it and ME3 proves it.

I'm guessing you've read this

I've seen that thread before! It's part of why I ended up seeing how I better identify with Geralt despite him being a pre-defined character than I ever did with "my" Shepard.

[Sebby]

Ravensword wrote...

Where is the OP?

She's either MIA or KIA.

[Killjoy Cutter]

GodWood wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Hell, there are Renegade decisions in ME1 and ME2 that are clearly the more productive choice.

The majority of the renegade decisions are the better choice.

But, as we get into ME2, Bioware seems to be unable to decide what "Renegade" actually means; it's very inconsistent.

If we isolate the decisions where Bioware seems to have decided that "Renegade" does in fact mean "giant space-douche LoL", then for those decisions, I have absolutely no problem with the results not being even -- I have no problem with people who decide to act that way paying for it.

What douchey decisions were there in ME2?

The majority?  Hardly. 

As for your question, let's start with every juvenile human-supremacist rant and quip, such as response to the two Asari stranded by C-Sec's TSA-parady stupidity on the Citadel.

[Killjoy Cutter]

wiggles89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Like I've said in a group, Bioware couldn't come up with a mature morally grey story if their lives depended on it and ME3 proves it.

I'm guessing you've read this

Oh look, juvenile "my character is better than your character" thread. 

[phimseto]

Not going to try catching myself up on 178 pages worth of Illusive Man chat, but suffice to say, I absolutely think the option to save Cerebrus/Illusive Man should be there in ME3. Even though I walked from him at the end of 2 to go my own way, I would absolutely remember that without him, the galaxy would have *no* chance against the Reapers. I'm sure Bioware is building in missions to take him out if that's what the player does, but I would love to see equally compelling storylines for preserving either him or preserving both him and the organization.

[Killjoy Cutter]

wiggles89 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Like I've said in a group, Bioware couldn't come up with a mature morally grey story if their lives depended on it and ME3 proves it.

I'm guessing you've read this

Oh look, juvenile "my character is better than your character" thread. 

If you think that critical analysis is juvenile then sure.

I consider the post you linked to a juvenile "look at all the ways my favorite character is better than your favorite character" post, yes.  The title makes the intent transparent. 

PS:  The White Wolf, original style.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 18 novembre 2011 - 06:36 .

[HiroVoid]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Hell, there are Renegade decisions in ME1 and ME2 that are clearly the more productive choice.

The majority of the renegade decisions are the better choice.

But, as we get into ME2, Bioware seems to be unable to decide what "Renegade" actually means; it's very inconsistent.

If we isolate the decisions where Bioware seems to have decided that "Renegade" does in fact mean "giant space-douche LoL", then for those decisions, I have absolutely no problem with the results not being even -- I have no problem with people who decide to act that way paying for it.

What douchey decisions were there in ME2?

The majority?  Hardly. 

As for your question, let's start with every juvenile human-supremacist rant and quip, such as response to the two Asari stranded by C-Sec's TSA-parady stupidity on the Citadel.

Uh....You do realize that speech can be taken as joking/humorous as a response to the Asari being douches to you don't you?  Kasumi'll even chime in with "Oh please.  Humanity's been fixing your problems for years.'  I honestly laughed through the whole thing, and if you decided to help them aftewards, their reaction is gold.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 18 novembre 2011 - 10:01 .

[outmane]

For me a douche renegade moment would be selling a fake presidium fish to those Krogans on the Citadel for 1k credits.

Of all the pragmatic things renegade Shep can do (I dont know like telling them its a good thing they arent allowed on the presidium ground cause they spell trouble)... and I end up wasting my time selling them a fish for a handful of credits.
Renegade options really take a lot of work navigating through if you want a consistant story.

That said, looking back at all my playthroughs Im surprised to see that the one Shepard who trusts TIM the most is actually one of my Paragons. She saved the Council back in ME1 and having them turn their back on humanity when we are in need of assistance really pushed her over the edge. She wants to believe so much that she can make a difference (shes got the war hero background) that she'll listen to TIM until the end.
Paragon idealism + TIM manipulation skills = Intact collector base

On the opposite, many of my pragmatic humancentric renegades will believe in the ideals put forward by TIM. But not a second will they trust him as a person. They know they are just a tool for him. So when he pops up at the end of the SM and ask for the collector base, theyre answer is pretty split. Some of my renegades have destroyed the base. Because they dont have time to run after TIM and clean his errors with the upcoming war. And they arent idealist enough to believe TIM will give them the information/technology. The other half of my renegades have given the collector base to TIM knowing full well they will have to deal with him eventually. Maybe take his place at the head of Cerberus to keep enforcing their humancentrist ideals without being a tool for anyone.

[Sebby]

BlueMagitek wrote...

It really doesn't matter who Shepard has been in bed with if the Reapers are defeated. ~_^

Being in bed with TIM matters more to my femshep than you think.

[outmane]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

outmane wrote...

For me a douche renegade moment would be selling a fake presidium fish to those Krogans on the Citadel for 1k credits.

Of all the pragmatic things renegade Shep can do (I dont know like telling them its a good thing they arent allowed on the presidium ground cause they spell trouble)... and I end up wasting my time selling them a fish for a handful of credits.

How is that a douche moment? It's an extraordinary act of kindness. You made a Krogan happy and his Krogan friend amused. You only charge a modest fee for that. It's the same as the work of priests, comedians, psychiatric councilors, and babysitters. It's social work, and Shepard did not do it pro bono only because they need funds for their mission.

Yes, you lied, but so do priests, comedians, psychiatric councilors, and babysitters. It's a white lie. You lied to make somebody else happy.

You made me laugh... do I have to pay you now ? <_<
I laugh when I saw it the first time. Then I was annoyed cause I jsut came out of yelling at the new Council that doing the hard choices is serious business. It felt OOC so I reloaded.
I just think its also a good example of renegade choices not always hitting the <pragmatic answer> mark all that well.

[Xilizhra]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

outmane wrote...

For me a douche renegade moment would be selling a fake presidium fish to those Krogans on the Citadel for 1k credits.

Of all the pragmatic things renegade Shep can do (I dont know like telling them its a good thing they arent allowed on the presidium ground cause they spell trouble)... and I end up wasting my time selling them a fish for a handful of credits.

How is that a douche moment? It's an extraordinary act of kindness. You made a Krogan happy and his Krogan friend amused. You only charge a modest fee for that. It's the same as the work of priests, comedians, psychiatric councilors, and babysitters. It's social work, and Shepard did not do it pro bono only because they need funds for their mission.

Yes, you lied, but so do priests, comedians, psychiatric councilors, and babysitters. It's a white lie. You lied to make somebody else happy.

My Shep does not trust TIM or anyone. But she does not want the Collector Base destroyed because it's a priceless relic from a lost civilization.

It's temporary. If he believes that there are in fact fish in the lakes, he'll probably try to get another one and be even more upset when that effort fails. If you tell him the truth, he bounces back fairly quickly and starts thinking of other ways to get fish. I believe he'll be happier in the long run there.

[General User]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

outmane wrote...

For me a douche renegade moment would be selling a fake presidium fish to those Krogans on the Citadel for 1k credits.

Of all the pragmatic things renegade Shep can do (I dont know like telling them its a good thing they arent allowed on the presidium ground cause they spell trouble)... and I end up wasting my time selling them a fish for a handful of credits.

How is that a douche moment? It's an extraordinary act of kindness. You made a Krogan happy and his Krogan friend amused. You only charge a modest fee for that. It's the same as the work of priests, comedians, psychiatric councilors, and babysitters. It's social work, and Shepard did not do it pro bono only because they need funds for their mission.

Yes, you lied, but so do priests, comedians, psychiatric councilors, and babysitters. It's a white lie. You lied to make somebody else happy.

My Shep does not trust TIM or anyone. But she does not want the Collector Base destroyed because it's a priceless relic from a lost civilization.

Well, gosh!  When you put it that way... it almost doesn't even sound like a two bit swindle for what amounts to pocket change.

[Xilizhra]

(1) When he discovers there's no fish on the Presidium, he may actually be THRILLED because he ate the LAST FISH ON THE PRESIDIUM. Weeeeeeee!

Impossible to know at this point. It's rather a risk.

(3) All (white) lies only work temporarily. Whether they're worth it is a quantitative assessment subject to error. In this case I believe his total expected happiness is greater if I give him a fish.

Not all: concealing the Alarei experiments seems to last quite some time, if not indefinitely.

[Xilizhra]

Concealing it from the majority of the fleet, then.

[Blacklash93]

Seboist wrote...
Like I've said in a group, Bioware couldn't come up with a mature morally grey story if their lives depended on it and ME3 proves it.

Yes they can. See Dragon Age.

Cerberus was never morally grey. It's amusing how sore the renegade fanboys are getting because now even they can't deny it anymore. It's not as funny as watching them try to justify torturing and killing children or trying to enslave sentient races or poisoning unborn babies, but still.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 19 novembre 2011 - 01:16 .

[BlueMagitek]

Seboist wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

It really doesn't matter who Shepard has been in bed with if the Reapers are defeated. ~_^

Being in bed with TIM matters more to my femshep than you think.

That isn't what I meant at... you know what, never mind. ~_~'

Dwarf Noble origins ftw? =D

Seriously though, I really don't have any complaints about the Origin stories for DA:O (well, poor Surana seems to get the short end of the stick all of the time).

Cerberus may be evil, but they've done more against the Reapers than any other organization in the galaxy. 

...well, the Protheans don't really count. >_>