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Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread

Débuté par Lambda Faction , juil. 09 2011 10:26

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#5126
Ravensword
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:21

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laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I've already beaten "ME3" and here's how it went down:  The now reintregrated into the Alliance Shepard with Cerberus support neutralizes the Reaper allied Batarian Hegemony with the the remnants joining the human-led coalition, Vorcha squadmate makes a heroic sacrifice to destroy Harbinger, humanity takes control of the Reapers ensuring human dominance in the galaxy and TIM knocks up femshep. The End.


I want to play that game! May I have your copy? :D

Wholly expected, but amusing nonetheless.


Indeed, both Seboist and I can appreciate a breathtaking story, and we can see the potential for a deep, satisfying plot with a smooth buildup and climatic ending.


Any particular reason as to why?

#5127
Xilizhra
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:22

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laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I've already beaten "ME3" and here's how it went down:  The now reintregrated into the Alliance Shepard with Cerberus support neutralizes the Reaper allied Batarian Hegemony with the the remnants joining the human-led coalition, Vorcha squadmate makes a heroic sacrifice to destroy Harbinger, humanity takes control of the Reapers ensuring human dominance in the galaxy and TIM knocks up femshep. The End.


I want to play that game! May I have your copy? :D

Wholly expected, but amusing nonetheless.


Indeed, both Seboist and I can appreciate a breathtaking story, and we can see the potential for a deep, satisfying plot with a smooth buildup and climatic ending.

I'm certain. Perhaps next time you can tell me about it, because the bigoted wish fulfillment tripe he just shoveled at me was underwhelming, to say the least.

#5128
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:23

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laecraft wrote...

deep, satisfying plot with a smooth buildup and climatic ending.

Is there room in your plot for my character? =]

#5129
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:29

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All Cerberus sympathizers are welcome to conquer the galaxy and establish human dominance side by side with TIM!

#5130
Ravensword
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:31

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laecraft wrote...

All Cerberus sympathizers are welcome to conquer the galaxy and establish human dominance side by side with TIM!


Wishful thinking is wishful.

#5131
Sebby
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:32

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laecraft wrote...

All Cerberus sympathizers are welcome to conquer the galaxy and establish human dominance side by side with TIM!


Indeed, blood brothers and sisters like you and I will fulfill TIM's vision. <3

#5132
Sisterofshane
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:34

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Seboist wrote...

laecraft wrote...

All Cerberus sympathizers are welcome to conquer the galaxy and establish human dominance side by side with TIM!


Indeed, blood brothers and sisters like you and I will fulfill TIM's vision. <3


I would play your version just to see pregnant femShep...and we thought that the walking animations in ME2 were ridiculous...

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 29 novembre 2011 - 03:35 .

#5133
BlueMagitek
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:36

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Hey now, I just want to use Cerberus as an asset against the Reapers, not hand them the keys to the galaxy. >_>

If they want to establish dominance, by all means, take advantage of the disarrayed alien states, but the face of Humanity (the Alliance) can't deal with that when our homeworld is in flames.

#5134
Sebby
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:38

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Sisterofshane wrote...

Seboist wrote...

laecraft wrote...

All Cerberus sympathizers are welcome to conquer the galaxy and establish human dominance side by side with TIM!


Indeed, blood brothers and sisters like you and I will fulfill TIM's vision. <3


I would play your version just to see pregnant femShep...and we thought that the walking animations in ME2 were ridiculous...


I'm afraid you won't get to see much walking as femshep will be barefoot and pregnant in TIM's kitchen.

#5135
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Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:40

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Seboist wrote...

laecraft wrote...

All Cerberus sympathizers are welcome to conquer the galaxy and establish human dominance side by side with TIM!


Indeed, blood brothers and sisters like you and I will fulfill TIM's vision. <3


TIM's manifesto is the best vision I've ever read in fiction. With science and ambition ruling over superstition and ignorance, we will meet the greatest challenge as we've met all the others. With TIM inspiring us, we will rock the world. <3

#5136
Sisterofshane
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:42

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Seboist wrote...



I'm afraid you won't get to see much walking as femshep will be barefoot and pregnant in TIM's kitchen.


I would smack you if I knew you were serious :P

Besides, my Femshep would be a terrible cook.  You know, the kind that burns water.

#5137
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Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:44

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Seboist wrote...

I'm afraid you won't get to see much walking as femshep will be barefoot and pregnant in TIM's kitchen.

That's the long term benefits of the Lazarus Project? Then TIM should have let me handle the project. I can get a 5 dollar hoe who will fulfill the exact same function, saving over 99.99% of the budget.

#5138
Sebby
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:46

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I'm afraid you won't get to see much walking as femshep will be barefoot and pregnant in TIM's kitchen.

That's the long term benefits of the Lazarus Project? Then TIM should have let me handle the project. I can get a 5 dollar hoe who will fulfill the exact same function, saving over 99.99% of the budget.


But then he wouldn't be able to add the first human spectre and hero of the citadel to his list of conquests now would he?

#5139
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Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:48

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Seboist wrote...

But then he wouldn't be able to add the first human spectre and hero of the citadel to his list of conquests now would he?

Of course he can. He can use protection. I bet he won't even feel any different with the technology of the 2180s.

#5140
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Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 03:58

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Xilizhra wrote...

I'm certain. Perhaps next time you can tell me about it, because the bigoted wish fulfillment tripe he just shoveled at me was underwhelming, to say the least.


If you read the leaked files, then you know that ME3 story is paragon wish fulfillment of the worst kind, without any player choice on the matter.

Ravensword wrote...

Wishful thinking is wishful.


Dreams is all we have left. After all, ME3 started as someone else's dream first. The line between dreaming and fiction is the blurry one.

And all we've ever asked for were equal paths. Player choice. Not the story that practically eliminates any choice whatsoever. Nobody wanted to force on Paragons the path they didn't wish to take. Don't want to side with TIM? Don't do it. But give us an option to do so. Wouldn't it be especially satisfying if it were your own choice to fight TIM, and not the railroading?

Yet I heard some Paragons wanting to have fun at our expense. Wanting a wish fulfilment story of a hero who wins everything without any sacrifices, arguing that it wouldn't lead to linearity and that it wouldn't eliminate the choices.

Well, it did. To people who asked for wish fulfilment and a winner paragon path: you have the linearity now. You have the single "blue" path, with choices reduced to picking the tone in conversation. And you're having fun at our expense. And gloating about it. Very noble.

/ renegade lament

Oh, TIM! What has been done to you?

Modifié par laecraft, 29 novembre 2011 - 04:01 .

#5141
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 04:12

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I'm afraid you won't get to see much walking as femshep will be barefoot and pregnant in TIM's kitchen.

That's the long term benefits of the Lazarus Project? Then TIM should have let me handle the project. I can get a 5 dollar hoe who will fulfill the exact same function, saving over 99.99% of the budget.


What about Shepards wanting to have little blue babies with Liara as the pinnacle of their ambition and struggles? ;) That's canon for some Shepards, too. Ask other Shepards what they're fighting for, and they'd speak of their LIs too. Anthropomorphizing the galaxy is very important, as Mordin will tell you. There have to be personal motives, as well as galactical ones. It helps.

Besides...biologically, the very point of being the best, of surviving, of conquering the world, is getting the best mate. Reproduction keeps the world spinning. It's an underlining motive for many of organics' more complex behavior.

Of course, to have kids with your LI in the galaxy you need to save the galaxy first. Otherwise the Reapers will get your kids. For Shepard, mating is a little challenging. As good a motive as any other, I say.

#5142
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Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 04:27

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laecraft wrote...

What about Shepards wanting to have little blue babies with Liara as the pinnacle of their ambition and struggles? ;)

They need higher ambitions and need to struggle for greater things.

Anthropomorphizing the galaxy is very important, as Mordin will tell you. 

I interpreted that as Mordin getting soft in his old age. Loosing his edge. :whistle:

Besides...biologically, the very point of being the best, of surviving, of conquering the world, is getting the best mate. Reproduction keeps the world spinning. It's an underlining motive for many of organics' more complex behavior.

I'm not so sure. IMO all our technology and social progress serve to liberate ourselves from that primitive purpose, so that we can turn our attention outwards, and focus on improving the universe. If we really become as advanced as the Reapers, our existence will be continuous and absolute. 

#5143
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Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 06:58

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

They need higher ambitions and need to struggle for greater things.


For some reason, though, the writers couldn't come up with any.

iOnlySignIn wrote...
I interpreted that as Mordin getting soft in his old age. Loosing his edge. :whistle:


No one in ME universe is sharper than Mordin. <3 With the exception of TIM himself, of course.

There's a reason why Shepard gazes at the pic of LI or has a tryst with LI before going to SM. Personal stakes, the people who inspire us to fight, who give us strength to go on. That's how humans work.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

I'm not so sure. IMO all our technology and social progress serve to liberate ourselves from that primitive purpose, so that we can turn our attention outwards, and focus on improving the universe. If we really become as advanced as the Reapers, our existence will be continuous and absolute. 


The Reapers are not really advanced. They're mere machines who follow a set routine. They depend on organics for reproduction. They have no purpose to seek. Without uncertainty, there can be no research and no advancement. Give up on the continuous and absolute existence. Without the end, there can be no beginning, and no progress.

Modifié par laecraft, 29 novembre 2011 - 07:00 .

#5144
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Posté 29 novembre 2011 - 11:30

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^ Progress does not *have* to come from natural selection. You can simulate evolution with a program, or direct evolution in a laboratory. The Reapers simply consciously direct their own evolution, while we do so unconsciously.

I thought the pre-SM tryst was because hormones released during orgasm reduces stress, produces euphoria, and increases mental focus (ala Garrus's 'Reach and Flexibility' story). Hence it is beneficial to mission success (perhaps the major reason Miranda does it). But your argument is just as valid, if not more.

#5145
Xilizhra
Posté 30 novembre 2011 - 12:29

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Nobody wanted to force on Paragons the path they didn't wish to take.

Speak for yourself. Or better yet, ask Saphra about his ideal of having the choice to save the Council be an instant game over.

But give us an option to do so. Wouldn't it be especially satisfying if it were your own choice to fight TIM, and not the railroading?

A fight's a fight. However, the only way this could be accomplished would be to make TIM a relatively unimportant figure in the final game, as his existence couldn't be vital for victory, and I suspect you wouldn't like that either.

Well, it did. To people who asked for wish fulfilment and a winner paragon path: you have the linearity now. You have the single "blue" path, with choices reduced to picking the tone in conversation. And you're having fun at our expense. And gloating about it. Very noble.

I'm gloating about nothing except Seboist's hypocrisy.

#5146
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 30 novembre 2011 - 02:35

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iOnlySignIn wrote...

I thought the pre-SM tryst was because hormones released during orgasm reduces stress, produces euphoria, and increases mental focus (ala Garrus's 'Reach and Flexibility' story). Hence it is beneficial to mission success (perhaps the major reason Miranda does it). But your argument is just as valid, if not more.


I think they should've had a tryst after getting the CB, too. As a personal reward, and to celebrate. And if Shepard blew off some steam after the fight and before reporting to TIM, getting rid of all that excess and no longer necessary battle stress and adrenaline, then maybe Shepard wouldn't be so antagonistic towards TIM. Instead, Shepard would be content and relaxed. And we'd have a normal conversation.

Upon reflection, their tryst looks more like some kind of biological urge to reproduce before being killed, even though it doesn't make sense in the context.

Modifié par laecraft, 30 novembre 2011 - 02:37 .

#5147
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 30 novembre 2011 - 03:35

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I still have no idea why Sheploo or Jacob would want to get it on before the SM: you'd think they wouldn't want to risk falling asleep before or during something so important.

#5148
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Posté 30 novembre 2011 - 03:57

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laecraft wrote...

I think they should've had a tryst after getting the CB, too. As a personal reward, and to celebrate. And if Shepard blew off some steam after the fight and before reporting to TIM, getting rid of all that excess and no longer necessary battle stress and adrenaline, then maybe Shepard wouldn't be so antagonistic towards TIM. Instead, Shepard would be content and relaxed. And we'd have a normal conversation.

I agree 100%. I think TIM insisted on a report the second the Normandy SR-2 was out of blast radius. Shepard literally had to clear up some debris on their way to the briefing room, while still wearing armor. Nobody's THAT hard-working unless your boss compells you. Compare the post-Collector Ship briefing where Shep appeared in casuals.

Personally I (officially 55% Paragon) would have appeared in my briefing with TIM dressed in pajamas and slippers and smoking a joint. I destroyed the Collectors and gave TIM their base. I've earned the right to chill a little. 

Upon reflection, their tryst looks more like some kind of biological urge to reproduce before being killed, even though it doesn't make sense in the context.

That's actually a most reasonable interpretation. The same could be used to explain why older people want kids more.

#5149
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 30 novembre 2011 - 02:14

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The tryst looks like the writers giving the player an option for some vicarious nookie at a "dramatically appropriate" time. Meh.

#5150
Dean_the_Young
Posté 30 novembre 2011 - 05:36

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I still have no idea why Sheploo or Jacob would want to get it on before the SM: you'd think they wouldn't want to risk falling asleep before or during something so important.

From what I've heard, sex alone is worth four hours of sleep in putting pep in your step the next morning.
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