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Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread


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#5226
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Seboist wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Nah. It's resources. You can't make paths that diverge too much because it would take too many resources.


The Witcher series manages it just fine. Bioware doesn't even attempt at trying to create any branching narrative or real difference between the two paths.

It wouldn't be that hard to do really. Let's take a Quarian vs Geth scenario for instance,depending on Shepard's choice the starting location and the enemies to fight would change but otherwise the map would largely be the same. Bioware doesn't even do THAT.

Do what? Change the map? They've said in ME3 that the maps change all the time like in DA from what I heard. Of cource I'm sure something will change if you've handed Legion to Cerberus (heritic virus and such). Speaking of which: what do you think TIM planned to do with Legion now that we know he's against us?Posted Image

#5227
Kaiser Shepard

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Mr.X.Pen wrote...

Seboist wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Nah. It's resources. You can't make paths that diverge too much because it would take too many resources.


The Witcher series manages it just fine. Bioware doesn't even attempt at trying to create any branching narrative or real difference between the two paths.

It wouldn't be that hard to do really. Let's take a Quarian vs Geth scenario for instance,depending on Shepard's choice the starting location and the enemies to fight would change but otherwise the map would largely be the same. Bioware doesn't even do THAT.

Do what? Change the map? They've said in ME3 that the maps change all the time like in DA from what I heard. Of cource I'm sure something will change if you've handed Legion to Cerberus (heritic virus and such). Speaking of which: what do you think TIM planned to do with Legion now that we know he's against us?Posted Image

He said they wouldn't even need to change the map, just whether you start on one side or the others, as well as the faction you fight. At this point I'd be content with just the latter, though.

And don't expect the Legion choice to matter that much.

#5228
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^ We so much for TIM interigating him. I concidered if you gave Legion to Cerberus there would have been records of TIM interacting with him while he's freaking out about the virus. Depending if he hadn't escaped.
Still you may be sadly right.....

#5229
Ultai

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

And don't expect the Legion choice to matter that much.


Or many others for that matter, rachni and the collector base for instance.  

TLDR inc, just felt like typing.

Hard to believe when I first got into the series years ago I was mostly paragon, with only killing the rachni and focusing on sovereign being the only 2 big choices that weren't paragon.  ME2 comes around, oh hey, so Cerberus wants to work with me to stop the Collectors.

I never really thought much of Cerberus one way or the other in ME1, and how could I?  The side missions sorta just came and went.  I still had my suspicions of them, but started to appreciate their place.  I thought of them as an ally I had to put aside my differences with in order to achieve a goal that helps us against "the big bad."  No big deal, my ego isn't that big and I don't believe Shepard is infallible, well apparently paragon Shepard is prohibited to make a mistake ever, which compounded on the character's somewhat brick personality only makes them more dull.  

A few missions and apparently I'm led into traps on purpose.  I should be angry right?  Ah ok, so you didn't want to risk tipping the collectors off, I can understand that, it's only logical that you don't want your enemy to know your damn plans, I mean I've seen this scenario countless times before in life and such.  We have no idea what kind of surveillance equipment the bugs have, I mean the Shadow Broker is able to stream data on the Normandy's cams to his ship for pete's sake, who knows what the bugs can do.

Getting to the end of ME2, another big decision, and that silly loading tip about decisions could have dire ramifications in ME3 is in the back of my mind as I ponder the CB base for several minutes (naive ol me at the time actually believing both paragon and renegade will have bad consquences to some of their actions), much longer than deciding to kill Sovereign.  I went through the scenarios, possible indoctrination I thought?  Well ok, if Reaper tech is inherently bad and evil, then what about the Thannix, EDI, Mass Relays, all of Sovereigns body parts on the Citadel, the Citadel itself?  Surely the Citadel is capable of indoctrination on a large scale, I mean it's only Reaper tech.  

Realizing the scenario was ridiculous, I went on to my next concern, giving the possibility of so much immense power to one person, or a small amount of people.  First thought, absolute power corrupts absolutely, this was the hardest for me to get through.  However the same thing kept going around in my head, we're fighting ancient beings who have the capacity to withstand firepower of a few fleets for an extended period of time, numbers unknown, thousands or millions.  Superior numbers, firepower, ****ing MIND CONTROL, who are driven by apparently cold logic to wipe out organic life, and I'm worried about the possibility of TIM using it for human dominance if we survive?  ****, when I think of dominance I think of USA style dominance, that isn't so bad, others however seem to think it amounts to genocide and slavery or etc.

In the end, it was a good thing Legion was in my party, "this base has no inherent ethical value, it's data, destroying it won't bring those dead back, but could save others."  So I kept it, got everyone out alive, hooray.  Then he pulls a total 180 on me.  Thus the seeds of doubt were planted, and started to realize why am I wasting my time putting so much thought into my decisions, because thanks to the spoilers and a few things from ME2, choices don't matter, well they do, if you want a different line of dialogue or email, if that's what constitutes choices mattering to you.

Man that felt good.  Back to having mindless fun in Skyrim.

#5230
Sebby

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Indeed Ultai, if you put much thought into the "decisions" beyond wanting to feel warm and fuzzy (Paragon) or trolling for the lulz (Renegade) then you're thinking too hard.

#5231
Sebby

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#5232
Dean_the_Young

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Xilizhra wrote...

The decent people would be potential liabilities, and now that Cerberus is developing an actual army, it evidently doesn't need to scrape up idealists anymore. Kill them all before they can reveal delicate information.

This isn't an open-source group, Xil. The point about cell-structured organizations is that each cell doesn't have delicate information that extends beyond itself. Each cell is also expendible in and of itself... especially when you factor in the designs such as 'these people are idealists, put them together' in the first place.

You're giving more of the same same saturday-morning cartoon rationalizations. That's fitting the accusation of poorly thought out design, not defending against it.

#5233
Dave of Canada

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 *applaud* Have to say, whoever wrote the Imperial Agent story in The Old Republic deserves a huge round of applause. I've said this before but if they'd create an entire game with the same writing as the Imperial Agent, including all the complexities, gray area and alliances you can forge based on your previous choices, I'd have to buy it.

Imperial Agent, while unfortunately being tied to an MMO, is probably one of the strongest stories from Bioware in recent history. If you've played it, I'd have absolutely loved TIM in a role similar to Jadus (excluding the arrogance and insanity)/Keeper in ME3.

Could go more into detail if any of you don't plan to play it, spoiler warnings and all.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 04 décembre 2011 - 05:45 .


#5234
Xilizhra

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The decent people would be potential liabilities, and now that Cerberus is developing an actual army, it evidently doesn't need to scrape up idealists anymore. Kill them all before they can reveal delicate information.

This isn't an open-source group, Xil. The point about cell-structured organizations is that each cell doesn't have delicate information that extends beyond itself. Each cell is also expendible in and of itself... especially when you factor in the designs such as 'these people are idealists, put them together' in the first place.

You're giving more of the same same saturday-morning cartoon rationalizations. That's fitting the accusation of poorly thought out design, not defending against it.

Wait, isn't Conrad Verner in Cerberus now? Maybe they haven't gotten rid of all the idealists after all.

#5235
Xenofire

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While it's not exactly TiM per se, it does refer to his legacy:
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#5236
Sebby

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Cerberus and TIM are one and the same.

#5237
Sebby

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Dave of Canada wrote...

 *applaud* Have to say, whoever wrote the Imperial Agent story in The Old Republic deserves a huge round of applause. I've said this before but if they'd create an entire game with the same writing as the Imperial Agent, including all the complexities, gray area and alliances you can forge based on your previous choices, I'd have to buy it.

Imperial Agent, while unfortunately being tied to an MMO, is probably one of the strongest stories from Bioware in recent history. If you've played it, I'd have absolutely loved TIM in a role similar to Jadus (excluding the arrogance and insanity)/Keeper in ME3.

Could go more into detail if any of you don't plan to play it, spoiler warnings and all.



Feel free to PM me the details.

#5238
Dean_the_Young

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Xilizhra wrote...
Wait, isn't Conrad Verner in Cerberus now? Maybe they haven't gotten rid of all the idealists after all.

You can always read the spoilers yourself, Xil.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 04 décembre 2011 - 06:26 .


#5239
Dean_the_Young

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Dave of Canada wrote...

 *applaud* Have to say, whoever wrote the Imperial Agent story in The Old Republic deserves a huge round of applause. I've said this before but if they'd create an entire game with the same writing as the Imperial Agent, including all the complexities, gray area and alliances you can forge based on your previous choices, I'd have to buy it.

Imperial Agent, while unfortunately being tied to an MMO, is probably one of the strongest stories from Bioware in recent history. If you've played it, I'd have absolutely loved TIM in a role similar to Jadus (excluding the arrogance and insanity)/Keeper in ME3.

Could go more into detail if any of you don't plan to play it, spoiler warnings and all.

Please, do. PM me.

#5240
Kaiser Shepard

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Dave of Canada wrote...

 *applaud* Have to say, whoever wrote the Imperial Agent story in The Old Republic deserves a huge round of applause. I've said this before but if they'd create an entire game with the same writing as the Imperial Agent, including all the complexities, gray area and alliances you can forge based on your previous choices, I'd have to buy it.

Imperial Agent, while unfortunately being tied to an MMO, is probably one of the strongest stories from Bioware in recent history. If you've played it, I'd have absolutely loved TIM in a role similar to Jadus (excluding the arrogance and insanity)/Keeper in ME3.

Could go more into detail if any of you don't plan to play it, spoiler warnings and all.

What Seb and Dean said.

#5241
GodWood

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What Seb, Dean and Kaiser said.

#5242
Dean_the_Young

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What Seb, Dean, Kaiser and Godwood said.

#5243
John Renegade

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Speaking about Imperial Agent:



Not crystal quality and contains minor (really only minor) spoilers, but it shows some of the Agent's attitudes.

P.S. I'm definitely gonna to play this as my main class (plus I'm probably gonna switch to playing mainly TOR anyway. All those years of waiting for a good conclusion of ME left me a little hollow in the end.)

Modifié par John Renegade, 04 décembre 2011 - 10:08 .


#5244
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Dave of Canada wrote...

 *applaud* Have to say, whoever wrote the Imperial Agent story in The Old Republic deserves a huge round of applause. I've said this before but if they'd create an entire game with the same writing as the Imperial Agent, including all the complexities, gray area and alliances you can forge based on your previous choices, I'd have to buy it.

Imperial Agent, while unfortunately being tied to an MMO, is probably one of the strongest stories from Bioware in recent history. If you've played it, I'd have absolutely loved TIM in a role similar to Jadus (excluding the arrogance and insanity)/Keeper in ME3.

Could go more into detail if any of you don't plan to play it, spoiler warnings and all.


PM me.

#5245
John Renegade

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@Dave, Dean, Kaiser, Goodwood,...

I'm not in the beta unfortunately, but I know most of the big spoilers, so if you want to discuss the IA, you can PM me as well...

I guess we're just the types, who don't mind being spoiled, but care more about actual story execution.

#5246
Sebby

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John Renegade wrote...

@Dave, Dean, Kaiser, Goodwood,...

I'm not in the beta unfortunately, but I know most of the big spoilers, so if you want to discuss the IA, you can PM me as well...

I guess we're just the types, who don't mind being spoiled, but care more about actual story execution.


I would have minded if there was an actual good story or c&c in those docs but since there isn't it's no problem. :D

#5247
John Renegade

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Seboist wrote...

I would have minded if there was an actual good story or c&c in those docs but since there isn't it's no problem. :D

That should teach me not to generalize too much. Posted Image

#5248
Sebby

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#5249
Sweawm

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And now for Mass Effect 3, Cerberus has gone from secret organization to galactic superpower.

Seriously: in Mass Effect: Invasion, Cerberus took over Omega. TOOK OVER OMEGA. Now that Cerberus holds some real galactic real estate, maybe the Council would upgrade their status from terror group to.. I don't know... MASSIVE ORGANIZATION POISED TO TAKE OVER THE GALAXY?

I can see the Illusive Man working for the Reapers anyway. Its very understandable especially with the Human Reaper. After all, the Illusive Man is obsessed with seeing mankind 'transcend' to perfection. And exactly who is offering perfection? Harbinger of course.

#5250
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That pic might replace my TIM wallpaper.