Ce sujet est ferméBlueMagitek wrote...
I don't believe Spectres have authority over the various militaries that comprise Council Space.
If you ask me, I would say they have authority over everyone except The Council, that's how I've always understood Spectres.
Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread
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Lambda Faction
, juil. 09 2011 10:26
#5351
Posté 12 décembre 2011 - 06:02
feliciano2040
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If you ask me, I would say they have authority over everyone except The Council, that's how I've always understood Spectres.
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#5352
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 12 décembre 2011 - 06:08
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Spoil it for me. Does he not make an appearance in ME3? Oh how I missed politely mocking him. Talking to him was like posting on BSN.laecraft wrote...
Seboist wrote...
I wish Admiral Mikhailovich made an appearence in ME2. He could have scolded or praised Shepard for her decision on whether or not to sacrifice Alliance ships to save the council.. The Alliance perspective on that decision was sorely lacking unlike the the alien one.
I loved that conversation with Rear Admiral Mikhailovich. Saluting him was nice, and he has a lot of nerve to demand inspection from a Spectre like he has the right for it. And then he has the balls to berate you for it. And give you his blessing at the end. It all builds a connection to humanity.
I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to berate or praise Shepard again.And he would elaborate his point greatly. I wish it happened - some feedback from the Earth would be nice.
#5353
Posté 12 décembre 2011 - 06:16
Sebby
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No mention of our favorite Rear Admiral in the docs AFAIK.
#5354
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 12 décembre 2011 - 06:34
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^ At least that means he probably won't be indoctrinated.
#5355
Posté 12 décembre 2011 - 06:42
Sebby
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iOnlySignIn wrote...
^ At least that means he probably won't be indoctrinated.
Well, they don't mention Elnora or Sidonis either (among others) and we all know what's in store for us with them...
#5356
Posté 12 décembre 2011 - 08:29
Sweawm
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BlueMagitek wrote...
feliciano2040 wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
And? Shep gave his opinion, if Hackett had thought it would have ended disastrously otherwise, he would have gone against it.
But..........he didn't, and it became public knowledge that Shepard was behind that call.
Yes, but the responsibility lies with Hackett, not Shepard. Shepard gave his opinion on the situation and Hackett ran with it.
Your both a bit wrong there. Shepard had control of the Mass Relay Network around the Citadel. It was up to him if he'd hold back the Alliance Fleet or unlock the Relays and allow the Alliance Fleet to sacrifice itself to save the Council. Sure, it wasn't reflected as well in the game but that's what the dialouge implied. It was Shepard's choice in the end, not Hacketts.
#5357
Posté 12 décembre 2011 - 01:55
feliciano2040
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Sweawm wrote...
Your both a bit wrong there. Shepard had control of the Mass Relay Network around the Citadel. It was up to him if he'd hold back the Alliance Fleet or unlock the Relays and allow the Alliance Fleet to sacrifice itself to save the Council. Sure, it wasn't reflected as well in the game but that's what the dialouge implied. It was Shepard's choice in the end, not Hacketts.
Oh ! Right right.
It's actually well explained, but it kinda passes through my head every time given everything that's happening !
Modifié par feliciano2040, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:55 .
!
#5362
Posté 18 décembre 2011 - 03:30
foxtrotcharlie
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Seboist wrote...
*Snip of Awesome
*Snip of Awesome
*Snip of Awesome
Ahem, first I see these Illusive Man cosplayers....
And then...
Modifié par foxtrotcharlie, 18 décembre 2011 - 03:32 .
#5364
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 01:25
Dave of Canada
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A little alcohol in my system and not in a good mood does not mix.
We're on the Bioware Social Network, the group where lawful good paragons are dime-a-dozen. Bioware has to create a game where they appeal to the majority, of course we're not going to see Renegade actions being supported. That would mean that some people would possibly need to compromise their ingame morals and lord knows we can't have that.
There's a few paragon players out there who I've had the pleasure to discuss with who've talked about wanting to see things balanced between both sides, how almost every renegade choice leads to consequences was absurd. It's a damn shame they're drowned out in the fanaticals who think they're hot stuff.
I mean, look at this post from another thread:
One of the so-called folks who I've had the displeasure of arguing against, including many others, who simply go around posting such useless posts that it really becomes frustrating to post on the forums simply because there's no way to have any fair discussion with these folks. I could go into -any- renegade / paragon thread and find a similar post, it's pathetic.
How many Renegade arguments have we had before the sudden inevitable "OH YEAH BUT YOU'RE A TWERP" post from one of the people? The sad thing, Bioware is catering to these immature folks and this only makes them more arrogant and they bring it up constantly how they are always right. No dear, you're not right, you're being catered to.
Now I'm not trying to paint all Renegades as saints, I've seen insults from both sides of the fence. The only difference is that I don't see the Renegade players jump into the threads to simply be ****s, they usually present their opinions and the like and then usually start insults. That earns them a ton more respect from me.
Now what are the chances they'll simply answer with "Haters gonna hate" if they saw this? I'd say 70%, no 80%. These individuals which I'm talking about are predictable sheep, simply being borderline trolls rather than arguing anything.
We're on the Bioware Social Network, the group where lawful good paragons are dime-a-dozen. Bioware has to create a game where they appeal to the majority, of course we're not going to see Renegade actions being supported. That would mean that some people would possibly need to compromise their ingame morals and lord knows we can't have that.
There's a few paragon players out there who I've had the pleasure to discuss with who've talked about wanting to see things balanced between both sides, how almost every renegade choice leads to consequences was absurd. It's a damn shame they're drowned out in the fanaticals who think they're hot stuff.
I mean, look at this post from another thread:
Arcian wrote...
This thread will inevitably lead to a Cerberus/Renegade circlejerking circus.
One of the so-called folks who I've had the displeasure of arguing against, including many others, who simply go around posting such useless posts that it really becomes frustrating to post on the forums simply because there's no way to have any fair discussion with these folks. I could go into -any- renegade / paragon thread and find a similar post, it's pathetic.
How many Renegade arguments have we had before the sudden inevitable "OH YEAH BUT YOU'RE A TWERP" post from one of the people? The sad thing, Bioware is catering to these immature folks and this only makes them more arrogant and they bring it up constantly how they are always right. No dear, you're not right, you're being catered to.
Now I'm not trying to paint all Renegades as saints, I've seen insults from both sides of the fence. The only difference is that I don't see the Renegade players jump into the threads to simply be ****s, they usually present their opinions and the like and then usually start insults. That earns them a ton more respect from me.
Now what are the chances they'll simply answer with "Haters gonna hate" if they saw this? I'd say 70%, no 80%. These individuals which I'm talking about are predictable sheep, simply being borderline trolls rather than arguing anything.
#5365
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 01:46
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Dave of Canada wrote...
A little alcohol in my system and not in a good mood does not mix.
We're on the Bioware Social Network, the group where lawful good paragons are dime-a-dozen. Bioware has to create a game where they appeal to the majority, of course we're not going to see Renegade actions being supported. That would mean that some people would possibly need to compromise their ingame morals and lord knows we can't have that.
There's a few paragon players out there who I've had the pleasure to discuss with who've talked about wanting to see things balanced between both sides, how almost every renegade choice leads to consequences was absurd. It's a damn shame they're drowned out in the fanaticals who think they're hot stuff.
I mean, look at this post from another thread:Arcian wrote...
This thread will inevitably lead to a Cerberus/Renegade circlejerking circus.
One of the so-called folks who I've had the displeasure of arguing against, including many others, who simply go around posting such useless posts that it really becomes frustrating to post on the forums simply because there's no way to have any fair discussion with these folks. I could go into -any- renegade / paragon thread and find a similar post, it's pathetic.
How many Renegade arguments have we had before the sudden inevitable "OH YEAH BUT YOU'RE A TWERP" post from one of the people? The sad thing, Bioware is catering to these immature folks and this only makes them more arrogant and they bring it up constantly how they are always right. No dear, you're not right, you're being catered to.
Now I'm not trying to paint all Renegades as saints, I've seen insults from both sides of the fence. The only difference is that I don't see the Renegade players jump into the threads to simply be ****s, they usually present their opinions and the like and then usually start insults. That earns them a ton more respect from me.
Now what are the chances they'll simply answer with "Haters gonna hate" if they saw this? I'd say 70%, no 80%. These individuals which I'm talking about are predictable sheep, simply being borderline trolls rather than arguing anything.
Thing is, I don't think it's that most people are lawful-good, so as they want to play whatever will make every NPC worship them, and what they know is the "winning" choice. Very much "Being the good guy only because the good guy always wins in the end." Like you say, sheep, but who desperately crave pandering. They strike me as the types who'd step on ants and tell themselves how great it makes them. They don't want a meaningful win, or a struggle. They just want to win, and win effortlessly.
It annoys me that I generally have three choices in Mass Effect. (1) Play Paragade/Renegon, and end up with weird or nonsensical dialog because the writing is meant for players to act consistently one or the other. (2) Play Paragon, and have everyone drop to their knees and offer to service me no matter what I do or who they are. (3) Play Renegade, and be an ass or eventually make an ass of yourself.
I generally choose (1), since none of the writing in ME is very consistent anyway. What is a Paragon and Renegade, exactly? You threaten to leave Zaeed to die for not obeying you like a slave... and that's Paragon. Obeying Cerberus is Renegade. Crime is Renegade. Being a totalitarian is Renegade. Being an anarchist is Renegade. Still, it annoys me that one of Renegades who's never done anything criminal or immoral is threatened by Samara and generally thought poorly of, but my Paragon whocommits all kinds of atrocities and hypocracies (even killed Samara - he believes in freedom, and thinks Morinth worthy of redemption) is praised by all.
I don't really see any reason to NOT want balance between alignments, and for more compelling choices/consequences that make you think about what you choose. Like you say though, a lot of people think this forum is for discussing ponies only.
#5366
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 02:03
Sebby
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There really is no rhyme or reason behind the "moralities" beyond Paragon tending to save things while Renegade destroys/kills them.
If Renegade is supposed to be the anti-establishment path, then why is letting the Rachni loose and attempting to cure the genophage considered "Paragon"? If you look at such choices from a non-warm and fuzzy standpoint the Paragon choice is "renegade" while the official renegade one is pro-establishment.
If Paragon is supposed to be the lawful good paladin path then why does s/he want to support a group that loves war,killing,mutiliation and brutally executing prisoners (Krogan)? It's like a DEA agent wanting to empower a drug cartel.
If Renegade is supposed to be the anti-establishment path, then why is letting the Rachni loose and attempting to cure the genophage considered "Paragon"? If you look at such choices from a non-warm and fuzzy standpoint the Paragon choice is "renegade" while the official renegade one is pro-establishment.
If Paragon is supposed to be the lawful good paladin path then why does s/he want to support a group that loves war,killing,mutiliation and brutally executing prisoners (Krogan)? It's like a DEA agent wanting to empower a drug cartel.
#5367
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 02:32
BlueMagitek
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Dave of Canada wrote...
A little alcohol in my system and not in a good mood does not mix.
We're on the Bioware Social Network, the group where lawful good paragons are dime-a-dozen. Bioware has to create a game where they appeal to the majority, of course we're not going to see Renegade actions being supported. That would mean that some people would possibly need to compromise their ingame morals and lord knows we can't have that.
There's a few paragon players out there who I've had the pleasure to discuss with who've talked about wanting to see things balanced between both sides, how almost every renegade choice leads to consequences was absurd. It's a damn shame they're drowned out in the fanaticals who think they're hot stuff.
I mean, look at this post from another thread:Arcian wrote...
This thread will inevitably lead to a Cerberus/Renegade circlejerking circus.
One of the so-called folks who I've had the displeasure of arguing against, including many others, who simply go around posting such useless posts that it really becomes frustrating to post on the forums simply because there's no way to have any fair discussion with these folks. I could go into -any- renegade / paragon thread and find a similar post, it's pathetic.
How many Renegade arguments have we had before the sudden inevitable "OH YEAH BUT YOU'RE A TWERP" post from one of the people? The sad thing, Bioware is catering to these immature folks and this only makes them more arrogant and they bring it up constantly how they are always right. No dear, you're not right, you're being catered to.
Now I'm not trying to paint all Renegades as saints, I've seen insults from both sides of the fence. The only difference is that I don't see the Renegade players jump into the threads to simply be ****s, they usually present their opinions and the like and then usually start insults. That earns them a ton more respect from me.
Now what are the chances they'll simply answer with "Haters gonna hate" if they saw this? I'd say 70%, no 80%. These individuals which I'm talking about are predictable sheep, simply being borderline trolls rather than arguing anything.
Aww, come on now, I'm a Paragade, you don't hate me, right? =D
And if we're going to be honest, the Paragon really isn't about Lawful Good, it's almost certainly Chaotic Good, if we were going to put a scale to it; I mean, a Lawful Good Shepard would destroy the Rachni (when the only other option is to release it into the galaxy unchecked) and kill Balak.
It is interesting to see a few of them try and justify Arrival though; it's quite the Renegade action and their argument seems to mirror my own regarding the end of ME 1. To stop the genocide of the galaxy, X must be done, regardless of how undesirable it is.
I think I've been in that topic. ~_o
But as for the decisions... a problem with some of the Paragons is that they never really try and justify their arguments outside of the immediate scope; take the Rachni for example. I've ever only heard that keeping them alive was the proper decision because they may provide a new ally (aside from the usual "it was the right thing to do" bit, which I think I agree with; destroying the sole Rachni is in poor taste). They never try and justify it otherwise; for example, one could make the claim that releasing the Rachni gives the Council races a reason to increase their military regardless of their belief in Reapers or Geth. While the people themselves might not know about it, the leaders of the various governments almost certainly do, and should be making preparations considering the first Rachni war.
Unfortunately it seems that Renegade is defined as "not Paragon". Regardless, I'm still a fan of Neutral options; alas poor Neutral Shep gets no love.
#5368
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 02:40
Sebby
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My original Shepard let the Queen go because she wanted to undermine the council races and have a human ally against them. 
#5369
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 02:41
BlueMagitek
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^ That may be true, but you're a filthy Vorcha and fell for Gavorn's tricks!
#5370
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 02:44
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BlueMagitek wrote...
Unfortunately it seems that Renegade is defined as "not Paragon". Regardless, I'm still a fan of Neutral options; alas poor Neutral Shep gets no love.
Neutral Interrupt! "I should go."
#5371
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 02:50
BlueMagitek
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Rojahar wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
Unfortunately it seems that Renegade is defined as "not Paragon". Regardless, I'm still a fan of Neutral options; alas poor Neutral Shep gets no love.
Neutral Interrupt! "I should go."
Infamous Neutral Option Shepard:
Felos:
Shiala is put into a crate and shipped off to the Alliance for interrogation.
Noveria:
Rachni Queen is put into a crate and shipped to the Council to let them deal with it.
DA & Council:
Shepard allowed Hackett to make the call.
ME 2:
When the option to give the Quarians advice about the Geth, Shepard replies, "I have no strong opinion one way or another".
#5372
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 02:59
Sebby
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BlueMagitek wrote...
Rojahar wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
Unfortunately it seems that Renegade is defined as "not Paragon". Regardless, I'm still a fan of Neutral options; alas poor Neutral Shep gets no love.
Neutral Interrupt! "I should go."
Infamous Neutral Option Shepard:
Felos:
Shiala is put into a crate and shipped off to the Alliance for interrogation.
Noveria:
Rachni Queen is put into a crate and shipped to the Council to let them deal with it.
DA & Council:
Shepard allowed Hackett to make the call.
ME 2:
When the option to give the Quarians advice about the Geth, Shepard replies, "I have no strong opinion one way or another".
I've suggested such before and how the free or kill the Queen choices should have been about who Shepard wanted to ally herself with(Krogan,Council or Rachni).
#5373
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 03:04
BlueMagitek
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I've noticed that, but I don't think Bioware has really ever done a faction based game; I mean, maybe BG 2, to an extent, I remember something about joining the Cowled Wizards and the Thieves Guild, but it's been a while.
And I agree with you, to a point; you need to be a Spectre because only they have the access to get to all of those parts of Council Space without a hassle. It's why you were allowed on all of those Garden Worlds, after all. Why Noveria "tolerates" your presence. Why you get to keep your weapons wherever you go. I mean, the Council can take away your status as a whim if you become too much of a trouble.
And I agree with you, to a point; you need to be a Spectre because only they have the access to get to all of those parts of Council Space without a hassle. It's why you were allowed on all of those Garden Worlds, after all. Why Noveria "tolerates" your presence. Why you get to keep your weapons wherever you go. I mean, the Council can take away your status as a whim if you become too much of a trouble.
#5374
Guest_Rojahar_*
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 05:25
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BlueMagitek wrote...
Infamous Neutral Option Shepard:
Feros:
Shiala is put into a crate and shipped off to the Alliance for interrogation.
Noveria:
Rachni Queen is put into a crate and shipped to the Council to let them deal with it.
#5375
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 19 décembre 2011 - 09:04
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wasp777 wrote...
To be not risen.
You crossed the line, pick-pocket!
