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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Almost everything that went wrong in ME1 is retroactively attributed to
Cerberus and The Illusive Man's involvement, making the trilogy
effectively about you trying to stop him with the Reapers as the side
villain in the backround.

Aside from the Lunar VI, is there any other accident related back to Cerberus?

The Illusive Man respects Renegade Shepard but views him as a useless
tool with no free will, he hates Paragon Shepard but eventually respects
him, saying he's the better man that he never was.

Really? Could you please show the part that says that?!

[Dave of Canada]

hhh89 wrote...

So at the end, he thinks that the Paragon way it's better?

Yes, he views Paragon Shepard as the better person that he wasn't when trying to stop the Reapers.

[The Elder King]

Dave of Canada wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

So at the end, he thinks that the Paragon way it's better?

Yes, he views Paragon Shepard as the better person that he wasn't when trying to stop the Reapers.

Well that's really bad and lame. If the various outcomes of the previous decisions didn't show the direction Bioware took, that it the most obvious and clearly sign of Paragon pandering.
One of the most famous Renegade characters in the IP (and the better in my opinion) that thinks that a Paragon way is better than the Renegade's, and that a ParaShep is better than a ReneShep.

[Dave of Canada]

Lizardviking wrote...
Really? Could you please show the part that says that?!

Looking for it now.

[Dave of Canada]

Went through half the script, still haven't found it. Can't be bothered to look through the other half for now.

[Sebby]

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah I destroyed DA:O and I agree it's solid but I had no intention of playing it again and it's legacy was tainted by things like DA2 and the devs canonizing certain things(Alistair being King) so I had the put the old boy to sleep.

Damn shame too, it's the only Bioware game that I've played with decent C&C. RIP

What? I know that there were some problems with the imports (especially in regards of Awakening) but from what I know Alistair doesn't show up as King in every case. Or is this about the story that Gaider wrote about Alistair, Isabela and Varric?
About DA3, I agree on what Dave said.
Though I'm probably not going to preorder it. DA2 was an enourmous disappointment. Not only for the game itself, but because it was clear that Bioware rushed its development to gain advantage of DAO popularity and success.

Yep and let's not forget the complete disregard for the choice of killing Leliana.

[Sebby]

Dave of Canada wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I was hoping for some T.I.M revelations but all I got was this crap... I'm leaving now...

• The Illusive Man doesn't recruit anybody who is sympathetic, they aren't "true" Cerberus. Mass Effect 3 reveals this.
• In a (not-so) shocking twist, The Illusive Man built the Lazarus Cell so Shepard would feel comfortable. This isn't for Shepard's desires, it's because he wants Shepard to be blind and not see the "true face" of Cerberus.
• Almost everything that went wrong in ME1 is retroactively attributed to Cerberus and The Illusive Man's involvement, making the trilogy effectively about you trying to stop him with the Reapers as the side villain in the backround.
• The Illusive Man has decided in ME3 that abandoning all his assets is the greatest idea ever, betraying everybody left and right. Including his top operatives for absolutely no reason.
• The Illusive Man respects Renegade Shepard but views him as a useless tool with no free will, he hates Paragon Shepard but eventually respects him, saying he's the better man that he never was.

Oh sweet Jesus, looks like my retirement from ME is looking to be more and more assured each day.....

Modifié par Seboist, 11 janvier 2012 - 02:33 .

[HiroVoid]

Dave of Canada wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I was hoping for some T.I.M revelations but all I got was this crap... I'm leaving now...

• The Illusive Man respects Renegade Shepard but views him as a useless tool with no free will, he hates Paragon Shepard but eventually respects him, saying he's the better man that he never was.

...Oh god.  There've been plenty of things I haven't liked about the script, but this.....just what?  No.  Seriously.  What writer's in charge of writing this part of the script?  I know that almost all of the writers are entirely Paragon biased, but that is way too far out there.  For god's sake, please change that before the game ships. 

I'm seriously looking back on ME1 and going 'You know what?  I don't even think Saren killed himself due to Shepard's convincing.  He just looked at the future games and went 'Oh fuc*!  I'd better get the hell out of here while I still have my character intact.''  Seriously, should we start a Saren group?  Because I feel like by the end of the series, he'll probably be the only memorial and well-written antagonist.

[BlueMagitek]

Seboist wrote...

Yep and let's not forget the complete disregard for the choice of killing Leliana.

<snip>

It's the spiritual sequel to Baldur's Gate, where they only cared if you killed Drizzt or not.

[HiroVoid]

Seboist wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah I destroyed DA:O and I agree it's solid but I had no intention of playing it again and it's legacy was tainted by things like DA2 and the devs canonizing certain things(Alistair being King) so I had the put the old boy to sleep.

Damn shame too, it's the only Bioware game that I've played with decent C&C. RIP

What? I know that there were some problems with the imports (especially in regards of Awakening) but from what I know Alistair doesn't show up as King in every case. Or is this about the story that Gaider wrote about Alistair, Isabela and Varric?
About DA3, I agree on what Dave said.
Though I'm probably not going to preorder it. DA2 was an enourmous disappointment. Not only for the game itself, but because it was clear that Bioware rushed its development to gain advantage of DAO popularity and success.

Yep and let's not forget the complete disregard for the choice of killing Leliana.

I'm honestly fine with that.  I really don't think they had the idea of importing DA:O when they first made it.  I'm also fine with retconning certain things like that if they feel they can bring a better story and narrative from it.

[Sebby]

HiroVoid wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I was hoping for some T.I.M revelations but all I got was this crap... I'm leaving now...

• The Illusive Man respects Renegade Shepard but views him as a useless tool with no free will, he hates Paragon Shepard but eventually respects him, saying he's the better man that he never was.

...Oh god.  There've been plenty of things I haven't liked about the script, but this.....just what?  No.  Seriously.  What writer's in charge of writing this part of the script?  I know that almost all of the writers are entirely Paragon biased, but that is way too far out there.  For god's sake, please change that before the game ships. 

I'm seriously looking back on ME1 and going 'You know what?  I don't even think Saren killed himself due to Shepard's convincing.  He just looked at the future games and went 'Oh fuc*!  I'd better get the hell out of here while I still have my character intact.''  Seriously, should we start a Saren group?  Because I feel like by the end of the series, he'll probably be the only memorial and well-written antagonist.

Hey, if they can retcon Luna to be TIM's fault and Balak into some super important Hegemony official then they can do anything with Saren's character.

[Dave of Canada]

HiroVoid wrote...

Seriously, should we start a Saren group?  Because I feel like by the end of the series, he'll probably be the only memorial and well-written antagonist.

He was memorial enough that they copy-pasted him, Dick Dastardly and The Illusive Man into a word-mixer and created TIM's role in ME3.

[HiroVoid]

Seboist wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I was hoping for some T.I.M revelations but all I got was this crap... I'm leaving now...

• The Illusive Man respects Renegade Shepard but views him as a useless tool with no free will, he hates Paragon Shepard but eventually respects him, saying he's the better man that he never was.

...Oh god.  There've been plenty of things I haven't liked about the script, but this.....just what?  No.  Seriously.  What writer's in charge of writing this part of the script?  I know that almost all of the writers are entirely Paragon biased, but that is way too far out there.  For god's sake, please change that before the game ships. 

I'm seriously looking back on ME1 and going 'You know what?  I don't even think Saren killed himself due to Shepard's convincing.  He just looked at the future games and went 'Oh fuc*!  I'd better get the hell out of here while I still have my character intact.''  Seriously, should we start a Saren group?  Because I feel like by the end of the series, he'll probably be the only memorial and well-written antagonist.

Hey, if they can retcon Luna to be TIM's fault and Balak into some super important Hegemony official then they can do anything with Saren's character.

Wait.....I thought EDI being the Luna AI was a nice touch, but they made it TIM's fault, and not the Alliances?   I thought it was actually a nice touch to think Hackett was lying through his teeth when he mentioned the rouge VI wasn't an AI.

[Sebby]

Not only is it TIM's fault but EDI has daddy issues over it.

[HiroVoid]

Dave of Canada wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Seriously, should we start a Saren group?  Because I feel like by the end of the series, he'll probably be the only memorial and well-written antagonist.

He was memorial enough that they copy-pasted him, Dick Dastardly and The Illusive Man into a word-mixer and created TIM's role in ME3.

That's honestly one of the reasons why I don't think TIM'll end up as memorable in comparison when all is said and done because no matter what anyone says by the end of the ME series, he'll only effectively be Saren 2.0 at most now.

[Sebby]

HiroVoid wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Seriously, should we start a Saren group?  Because I feel like by the end of the series, he'll probably be the only memorial and well-written antagonist.

He was memorial enough that they copy-pasted him, Dick Dastardly and The Illusive Man into a word-mixer and created TIM's role in ME3.

That's honestly one of the reasons why I don't think TIM'll end up as memorable in comparison when all is said and done because no matter what anyone says by the end of the ME series, he'll only effectively be Saren 2.0 at most now.

He'll just be remembered as the lame video game villain that was voiced by Martin Sheen.

If this is how they treat Walters' supposed "favorite character" then I'd hate to see what they'd do to the one he dislikes the most.

[Blacklash93]

Seboist wrote...
Hey, if they can retcon Luna to be TIM's fault and Balak into some super important Hegemony official then they can do anything with Saren's character.

Define "retcon". Never heard that about Balak (even though it's possible he became an official after BDtS. There's a two-year gap there), but calling the VI on Luna a retcon for being Cerberus' fault?

It's called a story development. But apparently it's a retcon if you don't like it.

[Radahldo]

Seboist wrote...

Today marks my official retirement from the Dragon Age franchise.



Time will tell whether my MEs will suffer the same fate after I see the Cerberus/TIM spoilers from ME3 post-release.

HAHA I AM JUST SEEING THIS
WOW THERES SOME GANGSTAS IN THIS THREAD

[HiroVoid]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Hey, if they can retcon Luna to be TIM's fault and Balak into some super important Hegemony official then they can do anything with Saren's character.

It's called a story development. But apparently it's a retcon if you don't like it.

I don't like it.  When it was the alliance behind it, it showed a different side to them and made you realize that the Alliance has its renegade moments where they'll do things that don't go with Council law.  With Cerberus behind it, it just makes them look more bad.  Honestly, it feels more like since they didn't give these plot threads the proper amount of time needed, they're just trying to wrap them all up as quickly as possible.  Now it feels like a lot of those darker sides to different governments and organizations won't even be investigated because they want to focus on Cerberus as the big villian.

[Dave of Canada]

HiroVoid wrote...
Wait.....I thought EDI being the Luna AI was a nice touch, but they made it TIM's fault, and not the Alliances?   I thought it was actually a nice touch to think Hackett was lying through his teeth when he mentioned the rouge VI wasn't an AI.

Cerberus (in an Alliance base) activated EDI, she goes beserk and kills everybody at the facility. The same EDI who was made with Reaper tech from Sovereign and accepted that you don't like AI based on what happened after Luna.

EDI explains that Cerberus is incompetent and says that she feels something toward TIM, that she wants to see him dead. She begins to doubt her use to everybody else and Shepard goes "You're feeling hate, EDI. And you're awesome, even if Cerberus made you".

And then Joker starts making out with her. [/notreally]

[HiroVoid]

Seboist wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Today marks my official retirement from the Dragon Age franchise.

Time will tell whether my MEs will suffer the same fate after I see the Cerberus/TIM spoilers from ME3 post-release.

Better view of my Retirement.

I actually wouldn't have destroyed DA:O.  Even if its successors are bad, DA:O on its own is still a good game that I enjoy replaying.  Not sure if you have the same feelings for it though.

[Sebby]

Radahldo wrote...

HAHA I AM JUST SEEING THIS
WOW THERES SOME GANGSTAS IN THIS THREAD

I would have preferred to shoot Hawke with my glock but I had to settle for stabbing him in the face with my knife instead.

[Radahldo]

HOW DID YOU DESTROY THESE DISCS? DID YOU FILM IT? IF YOU USED KNIVES AND SCISSORS, I'M GLAD YOU DIDNT CUT YOURSELF

[Sebby]

HiroVoid wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Today marks my official retirement from the Dragon Age franchise.

Time will tell whether my MEs will suffer the same fate after I see the Cerberus/TIM spoilers from ME3 post-release.

Better view of my Retirement.

I actually wouldn't have destroyed DA:O.  Even if its successors are bad, DA:O on its own is still a good game that I enjoy replaying.  Not sure if you have the same feelings for it though.

Well, obviously I must have liked it if I went on to play Awakening and DA2.

[HiroVoid]

Dave of Canada wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
Wait.....I thought EDI being the Luna AI was a nice touch, but they made it TIM's fault, and not the Alliances?   I thought it was actually a nice touch to think Hackett was lying through his teeth when he mentioned the rouge VI wasn't an AI.

EDI explains that Cerberus is incompetent and says that she feels something toward TIM, that she wants to see him dead. She begins to doubt her use to everybody else and Shepard goes "You're feeling hate, EDI. And you're awesome, even if Cerberus made you". [/notreally]

'sigh'  This is what ticked me off in ME2.  Udina's a ******.  We already knew this from ME1.  Either way, he still could have been a valuable ally to Shepard in his position since he still knows politics better than Anderson.  But no.  Nobody likes Udina.  In fact, the majority of people want every excuse to kill him.  So instead of making any path where he could be helpful, let's make it so he's a complete joke of a character for no other reason to exist than to be hated and be made fun of.