6970 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

HiroVoid wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Hey, if they can retcon Luna to be TIM's fault and Balak into some super important Hegemony official then they can do anything with Saren's character.

It's called a story development. But apparently it's a retcon if you don't like it.

I don't like it.  When it was the alliance behind it, it showed a different side to them and made you realize that the Alliance has its renegade moments where they'll do things that don't go with Council law.  With Cerberus behind it, it just makes them look more bad.  Honestly, it feels more like since they didn't give these plot threads the proper amount of time needed, they're just trying to wrap them all up as quickly as possible.  Now it feels like a lot of those darker sides to different governments and organizations won't even be investigated because they want to focus on Cerberus as the big villian.

The Alliance still has its renegade moments; I remember a certain ~80% Renegade Requirement mission in ME where you're sent on a "diplomatic" mission, with the ulterior motive of eliminating the other party. ~_^

But then, it could just be Hackett.  Always liked him though, regardless of alignment. 

[Sebby]

HiroVoid wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
Wait.....I thought EDI being the Luna AI was a nice touch, but they made it TIM's fault, and not the Alliances?   I thought it was actually a nice touch to think Hackett was lying through his teeth when he mentioned the rouge VI wasn't an AI.

EDI explains that Cerberus is incompetent and says that she feels something toward TIM, that she wants to see him dead. She begins to doubt her use to everybody else and Shepard goes "You're feeling hate, EDI. And you're awesome, even if Cerberus made you". [/notreally]

'sigh'  This is what ticked me off in ME2.  Udina's a ******.  We already knew this from ME1.  Either way, he still could have been a valuable ally to Shepard in his position since he still knows politics better than Anderson.  But no.  Nobody likes Udina.  In fact, the majority of people want every excuse to kill him.  So instead of making any path where he could be helpful, let's make it so he's a complete joke of a character for no other reason to exist than to be hated and be made fun of.

The problem with your idea is that it would make ME have more depth and we can't have that.

[HiroVoid]

BlueMagitek wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Hey, if they can retcon Luna to be TIM's fault and Balak into some super important Hegemony official then they can do anything with Saren's character.

It's called a story development. But apparently it's a retcon if you don't like it.

I don't like it.  When it was the alliance behind it, it showed a different side to them and made you realize that the Alliance has its renegade moments where they'll do things that don't go with Council law.  With Cerberus behind it, it just makes them look more bad.  Honestly, it feels more like since they didn't give these plot threads the proper amount of time needed, they're just trying to wrap them all up as quickly as possible.  Now it feels like a lot of those darker sides to different governments and organizations won't even be investigated because they want to focus on Cerberus as the big villian.

The Alliance still has its renegade moments; I remember a certain ~80% Renegade Requirement mission in ME where you're sent on a "diplomatic" mission, with the ulterior motive of eliminating the other party. ~_^

But then, it could just be Hackett.  Always liked him though, regardless of alignment. 

Yeah, but my problem is that I feel like since we're at the end of the trilogy now, none of this will have an opportunity to be explored any more.  Maybe it's partially because ME2 essentially got rid of sidequests which I kind of lament when any RPG does that since I think sidequests have a tendency to really expand a universe.

I guess another problem comparing with ME1 is that while I was going through ME1, I was able to to go through it while being able to take in the scenery, the universe, and the way things were in my own way, and it was done subtly and well pacingly.  With ME2 and looking at ME3, it's ACTION, ACTION, ACTION, FEEL BAD ABOUT THIS, FEEL SAD ABOUT THIS, JUDGE THIS PERSON FOR THIS.

[Sebby]

BlueMagitek wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Hey, if they can retcon Luna to be TIM's fault and Balak into some super important Hegemony official then they can do anything with Saren's character.

It's called a story development. But apparently it's a retcon if you don't like it.

I don't like it.  When it was the alliance behind it, it showed a different side to them and made you realize that the Alliance has its renegade moments where they'll do things that don't go with Council law.  With Cerberus behind it, it just makes them look more bad.  Honestly, it feels more like since they didn't give these plot threads the proper amount of time needed, they're just trying to wrap them all up as quickly as possible.  Now it feels like a lot of those darker sides to different governments and organizations won't even be investigated because they want to focus on Cerberus as the big villian.

The Alliance still has its renegade moments; I remember a certain ~80% Renegade Requirement mission in ME where you're sent on a "diplomatic" mission, with the ulterior motive of eliminating the other party. ~_^

But then, it could just be Hackett.  Always liked him though, regardless of alignment. 

I had the impression he was expecting Shepard to smoke Major Kyle as well. I also suspect he had setup Shepard to initiate "The Project" in order to keep the Alliance's hands clean like he did throughout ME1 by taking advantage of her spectre/rogue status.

I always viewed Hackett as being "proto-TIM".

[BlueMagitek]

HiroVoid wrote...

Yeah, but my problem is that I feel like since we're at the end of the trilogy now, none of this will have an opportunity to be explored any more.  Maybe it's partially because ME2 essentially got rid of sidequests which I kind of lament when any RPG does that since I think sidequests have a tendency to really expand a universe.

I guess another problem comparing with ME1 is that while I was going through ME1, I was able to to go through it while being able to take in the scenery, the universe, and the way things were in my own way, and it was done subtly and well pacingly.  With ME2 and looking at ME3, it's ACTION, ACTION, ACTION, FEEL BAD ABOUT THIS, FEEL SAD ABOUT THIS, JUDGE THIS PERSON FOR THIS.

I understand what you're talking about, and if those spoilers are true, it will be a bit saddening, yeah.

And I see where you're coming from.  I've replayed ME 1 more times than ME 2 for a reason, I suppose.  But I can't do it too much; the completionist in me cries and then I spend hours upon hours climbing up extremely verticle mountains in the Mako. ~_~

Seboist wrote...

I had the impression he was expecting
Shepard to smoke Major Kyle as well. I also suspect he had setup Shepard
to initiate "The Project" in order to keep the Alliance's hands clean
like he did throughout ME1 by taking advantage of her spectre/rogue
status.

I always viewed Hackett as being "proto-TIM".

For
Kyle, I imagined that Hackett thought that was the most likely way
things were going to go down, but he didn't necessarily want Major Kyle
dead.  You're probably right about that.

I wouldn't call him Proto-TIM, Hackett is doing it all inside the system; I think I'd label him a Renegon in a Paragade mask.  He'll make due with what he gets.  A highly
Paragon Shepard can deal with the mission that would suit him strongly
(the rescue of scientists from biotic terrorists), while a Renegade
Shepard can deal with a mission that would suit him strongly (taking out
a thorn in the Alliance's side, unofficially, as the Alliance cannot
sanction the assasination of anyone).

If TIM was more like Hackett, he would, say, give a Paragon Shepard Samara's dossier & a Renegade Shepard Jack's dossier.   Actually, ME 2 doesn't really have any good examples.... must be with the removal of side missions as Hiro said.

[Sebby]

Arrival and the Darius situation are similar to the Collector ship mission in that Shepard was mislead by their superior into doing something entirely different than what they set out to do due to half-truths and false premises. Another similarity to TIM is how we're given the impression that Hackett knows far more than what's letting on like with the "missing scientist" mission and Akuze.

I was sort of anticipating/hoping that Hackett would be revealed to be one of those pro-Cerberus Alliance officials and that he was in cahoots with TIM.

[BlueMagitek]

Seboist wrote...

Arrival and the Darius situation are similar to the Collector ship mission in that Shepard was mislead by their superior into doing something entirely different than what they set out to do due to half-truths and false premises. Another similarity to TIM is how we're given the impression that Hackett knows far more than what's letting on like with the "missing scientist" mission and Akuze.

I was sort of anticipating/hoping that Hackett would be revealed to be one of those pro-Cerberus Alliance officials and that he was in cahoots with TIM.

The difference is, Hackett can't tell Shepard that he needs a man taken out (as part of the Alliance, he can't issue assasination orders), Hackett can't tell Shepard that an Alliance project related to Reapers has gone wrong in Batarian space.   TIM is under no such restriction.

But yes, I'm sure that Hackett was mixed up in some shady business in the Alliance, and he likely knew about Cerberus while they were still underground.

[Sebby]

I wish all of ME1 was about working for Hackett and doing his and the Alliance's dirty work. I found it more fun and interesting than dealing with the boring reapers.

That was one major reason why the transition to working for TIM and Cerberus went smoothly for me.

[Sebby]

Lizardviking wrote...

philiposophy wrote...

Actually despite my misgivings with some of the ME3 leaks I'm still more interested in Mass Effect and think it holds better for BioWare. I liked DA:O but felt it only went so far and that DA2 was a weaker game overall. ME2 relative to its predecessor signalled big things for BioWare: smooth combat mechanics, polish, etc. ME3 looks to be building on that already strong platform so I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, some of the writing sucks but then ME2's main plot was garbage to non-existent and I still loved that game.

I agree with this post regarding ME3. The Cerberus, Rachni and Balak (and potentially EDI) plotlines suck. But I genuinely like the Reaper and genophage plotlines and I think the squad coupled with the banter looks solid.

The only thing I will reserve jugdement on is the Geth/Quarian plot.

Don't get your hopes high for that. There's parts of it that are just as atrocious as the Cerberus ones like Tali's role, Legion's and the kumbaya outcome(which is facepalm inducing and unintentionally creepy).

[Unschuld]

Seboist wrote...


I had the impression he was expecting Shepard to smoke Major Kyle as well. I also suspect he had setup Shepard to initiate "The Project" in order to keep the Alliance's hands clean like he did throughout ME1 by taking advantage of her spectre/rogue status.

I always viewed Hackett as being "proto-TIM".

Oh, come on now. Hackett clearly has the voice of someone you can trust.

[John Renegade]

Yeah, Hackett was always someone I've imagined to be both proto-TIM and pro-TIM.

That said, it seems that in terms of 'grey morality', Mass Effect got beaten by games like Skyrim, which though not designed to have an awesome plotline, had actually more 'real' characters than ME. Take that whole civil war thing: Both Ulfric and Tullius are portrayed as essentially equals with different opinions on how should some things be done; both have valid points (Ulfric wants freedom for his people to choose their own path independant on the crumbling empire, Tullius sees that 'freedom' as an opportunity for a Thalmor invasion, which is not exactly desirable by both parties); and finally: The player is not punished in picking one side over the other. I've sided with the Empire, but I understand players who have done the opposite thing.

This all makes me a bit sad regarding Mass Effect and maybe Bioware as a whole...

[Dean_the_Young]

BlueMagitek wrote...


The difference is, Hackett can't tell Shepard that he needs a man taken out (as part of the Alliance, he can't issue assasination orders), Hackett can't tell Shepard that an Alliance project related to Reapers has gone wrong in Batarian space.

Sure he can.

  TIM is under no such restriction.

Sure he is.

[BlueMagitek]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...


The difference is, Hackett can't tell Shepard that he needs a man taken out (as part of the Alliance, he can't issue assasination orders), Hackett can't tell Shepard that an Alliance project related to Reapers has gone wrong in Batarian space.

Sure he can.

  TIM is under no such restriction.

Sure he is.

I'm pretty sure Hackett cannot order an assasination; it's been a while but he says something about Alliance policy to Shepard about it after the mission.

TIM's restriction is the Shadow Broker who could leak his plan to Shepard, and if you play LotSB beforehand (which I'm fairly certain you can do), he loses that excuse.  


Edit:

John Renegade wrote...

Yeah, Hackett was always someone I've imagined to be both proto-TIM and pro-TIM.

That
said, it seems that in terms of 'grey morality', Mass Effect got beaten
by games like Skyrim, which though not designed to have an awesome
plotline, had actually more 'real' characters than ME. Take that whole
civil war thing: Both Ulfric and Tullius are portrayed as essentially
equals with different opinions on how should some things be done; both
have valid points (Ulfric wants freedom for his people to choose their
own path independant on the crumbling empire, Tullius sees that
'freedom' as an opportunity for a Thalmor invasion, which is not exactly
desirable by both parties); and finally: The player is not punished in
picking one side over the other. I've sided with the Empire, but I
understand players who have done the opposite thing.

This all makes me a bit sad regarding Mass Effect and maybe Bioware as a whole...

I'm sure Hackett knows about Cerberus and appreciates them to an extent.  They
can be blamed for things other Alliance black ops may have done, and
Cerberus is capable of doing things that the Alliance can't touch.  That
being said, I can't see him signing off on Cerberus' operations.  Look
at Overlord.  Having a means of controlling the Geth is a good idea to
look into.  Doing it by stringing up a handicapped person isn't something I can see him signing off on.  

Eh,
the Elder Scrolls has issues as well.  It forgets its own lore (and
there is quite a lot of it); Skyrim's plot shouldn't have happened if
the Maormer were paid any attention to.  The Nerevarine should have
mastered the Console by now too.  I don't see the Underking putting up with this nonsense either.  No, wait, he's dead. 

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 12 janvier 2012 - 12:17 .

[Sebby]

Hackett could turn a blind eye and give Cerberus personnel immunity in exchange for their research like America did with Unit 731 after WW2.

That was the worse I would have done against Cerberus when I was ambivalent to them back in the day.

Modifié par Seboist, 12 janvier 2012 - 03:17 .

[BlueMagitek]

Seboist wrote...

Hackett could turn a blind eye and give Cerberus personnel immunity in exchange for their research like America did with Unit 731 after WW2.

That was the worse I would have done against Cerberus when I was ambivalent to them back in the day.

I have a feeling that wouldn't end well; if you remember, the Salarians had an organization that predated the STG, the League of One.  They were eliminated in order to appeal to the Asari.  I don't believe the Alliance can do something like that with the STG spying on them constantly (as they do everyone).

[Sebby]

They can share Geth and weapon data with the Salarians.

[Sebby]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Checkout the new TIM wall graphics:

http://www.walls360....-Man-p/9060.htm

That Afterlife one looks pretty sweet too.

Great art of the boss right there.

Modifié par Seboist, 13 janvier 2012 - 01:08 .

[naledgeborn]

If TIM has to be evil I want him to be badass too. Will he at least have a decent boss fight with Shep? Or is Kai Leng the attack dog the whole game?

[Sebby]

naledgeborn wrote...

If TIM has to be evil I want him to be badass too. Will he at least have a decent boss fight with Shep? Or is Kai Leng the attack dog the whole game?

There doesn't seem to be a boss fight with him per say just some cackling evil moment where he taunts Shepard and co when they're at his mercy. The way Shepard "fights back" is the same manner in which Saren was talk-jutsued.....

And yeah Kai Leng is the main attack dog.

[Xilizhra]

Why would TIM be any sort of physical match for Shepard anyway? I can't imagine it'd go well unless he was a Reaper avatar, which I actually did have an idea for; I wanted him to look somewhat angelic.

[Dave of Canada]

naledgeborn wrote...

If TIM has to be evil I want him to be badass too. Will he at least have a decent boss fight with Shep? Or is Kai Leng the attack dog the whole game?

He doesn't.

Spoilers ahead.

TIM uses his reaper powers that he gained by upgrading himself with Reaper tech to freeze Shepard and Anderson, he talks about how awesome control is and that controlling the Reapers is obviously the right decision. Shepard and Anderson point their guns at each other and TIM cackles maniacally, he tells Shepard to pull the trigger and gives his not-so epic villain speech.

Shepard can tell him he's indoctrinated (persuade), he doesn't believe it and keeps going on about his speech. Shepard keeps convincing him he's indoctrinated until TIM starts yelling "no, no, no, no!" and then yells out for the voices in his head to shut up.

He then realizes he is and shoots himself, otherwise Shepard shoots him in a cutscene. The dying TIM praises Paragon Shepards and insults Renegade Shepards before his last breath. The guy who's controlling the Reapers confirms shortly after that TIM was "theirs".

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 janvier 2012 - 09:05 .

[Dave of Canada]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Out of curiosity, where exactly are Shepard's squadmates while all this is going on?

Spoilers ahead.

The ones you've brought with you are on the Citadel, the ones you've left behind are "fighting" the war.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 janvier 2012 - 09:05 .