6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Yes, just like the little terminal on the SB vessel is giving you options.

A game mechanical issue because the game wasn't set up to make your own SB missions.

Why do you think you'll be given the chance to reform the Council? You've already made your choice back in ME 1. And how does TIM hinder your "mission to do good", when he gives you everything you need to do such a thing? The man brought you back from the dead to stop the Collectors.

If I'm not in-game, it's still an ambition for Shepard to go for. And killing it doesn't count as reform, especially since ten thousand other people would have to die for it. Finally, TIM isn't hindering me yet; I take my action in the hope of seeing that continue.

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

A game mechanical issue because the game wasn't set up to make your own SB missions.

If I'm not in-game, it's still an ambition for Shepard to go for. And killing it doesn't count as reform, especially since ten thousand other people would have to die for it. Finally, TIM isn't hindering me yet; I take my action in the hope of seeing that continue.

So they're exactly the same.  You get options, you can do some of them if you want, or all of them.  You have to do some of TIM's missions, but you still get to choose for the most part.  

Nope, not if Shepard is given no dialog options relating to wanting to change the Council, it isn't.  Remember, Shepard isn't you; you don't get to decide Shepard's motivations, you can pick (usually three) motivations that Shepard can have.  Ten thousand assorted military personnel die in order to achieve their objective of keeping the Citadel from falling into enemy hands / being destroyed / acting as a gateway for Reapers, you mean.  And you're taking an action directly against TIM; you shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't want to support you afterwards.  If I let the Council die, I'm taking an action against them to fufill their goal; same with TIM.  And if I do let the Council die, I'm not going to expect them to be my good friends and continue to "support" me.

[Xilizhra]

So they're exactly the same. You get options, you can do some of them if you want, or all of them. You have to do some of TIM's missions, but you still get to choose for the most part.

It's a difference in-story.

Nope, not if Shepard is given no dialog options relating to wanting to change the Council, it isn't.

Ah, so you believe that Shepard only spoke to every crew member about four times over the course of the entire mission in reality?

[BlueMagitek]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's a difference in-story.

Ah, so you believe that Shepard only spoke to every crew member about four times over the course of the entire mission in reality?

The only difference is that Liara's "missions" are completely optional because they have nothing to do with Shepard's goal; which is stopping the Collectors.  Shepard gets a choice in both of them.

I'm sure they spoke more, but you can't put completely unrelated words into their mouths.  No matter what I do, Shepard isn't going to be a delusional cyborg who believes himself to be a Space Malkavian.  Likewise, your Shepard cannot be of the opinion that the Council needs to be changed unless that opinion is capable of being expressed.  Your opinion != Shepard's opinion.

[BlueMagitek]

iOnlySignIn wrote...


I do not get the feeling that Liara exerts any strong influence over Shepard either, especially when compared to TIM. Rather, it's Shepard who exerts a strong influence on her, and basically transforming her from a solitary scientist into the Shadow Broker, just like how Shepard transformed Garrus from a disgruntled C-Sec officer into Archangel, and transformed Wrex from a cynical mercenary into the uniter of the Krogan Clans.

If there is any character in ME that is a pure user, it's Creator-Tali'Zorah.

Shepard didn't turn Garrus into Archangel; he manages that all on his own. 

[GodWood]

Xilizhra wrote...
He's never shown that he possesses morals at all.

Complete nonsense, his morals are simply different to your own.

Look at what he's done! Spending a buttload of his tiny little organization's resources just so he can bring Shepard back to help stop the Collectors. Not for personal glory, not for renown but for the simple act of helping humanity. The core tenet of his organization's ideology.

I don't know about you but that's far more 'moral' then anything I've done recently.

And really, demonizing anyone who doesn't share your morals as some kind of immoral monster? Such arrogance can send you down a dark path.

He's never taken a single altrustic action that wasn't for Shepard's benefit somehow, and Shepard is his own pawn, so that doesn't count.

(ignoring the altruism debate)

Directly? Well of course not. Shepard only ever gets to see him in those very few meetings she has with him and in those everything is strictly business. What would you prefer him to start one off saying "Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see you there. I was busy nursing this puppy"?

Indirectly however there's plenty of evidence for. Look at his organization, it's whole purpose is the protection, advancement and preservation of humanity. You may not agree with it but you can not deny it's a goal far greater then just himself.
If that isn't enough just look to the post mission summaries. They usually reveal him sending resources to help colony X, funding for colony Y, helping treat and evacuate citizens of colony Z etc etc.

I've never had the slightest hint that he's in any way trustworthy

You have enough evidence to trust that he wants to stop the Reapers, he'll do anything to do so and he values you as a resource.

What more do you need? 

He tells me the bare minimum of what I need to know

I'm sure you're smart enough to know such is the norm for such operations. You yourself may not appreciate it but I'm sure your Shepard would be used to such things after 10 years in the Alliance. 

and gives me no kind of hint as to what Cerberus is doing elsewhere, or how exactly this technology is going to be applied.

Shepard never asks.

I don't doubt that TIM disliked Teltin's enormously high burn rate, which is why the scientists were hiding it, but actually caring for the suffering of the prisoners? Not in ten thousand years.

And yet you have not proding a reason for why your Shepard believes this.

Because I believe the galaxy is more likely to be doomed by giving Cerberus the base.

It baffles me that people think this.

Please, try and explain this mindset.

The Council is a means to an end. I work for them, for the most part, because they haven't done much to hinder me in my mission to do the most good for the galaxy. And when they did, at the end of ME1, I disobeyed them. 

Cerberus is the same, the difference is they've never hindered you. Why toss them aside and demonize their leader and yet not do the same for the Council?

Modifié par GodWood, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:50 .

[Sebby]

TIM vs Predator



Link

[Xilizhra]

Complete nonsense, his morals are simply different to your own.

Look at what he's done! Spending a buttload of his tiny little organization's resources just so he can bring Shepard back to help stop the Collectors. Not for personal glory, not for renown but for the simple act of helping humanity. The core tenet of his organization's ideology.

I don't know about you but that's far more 'moral' then anything I've done recently.

And really, demonizing anyone who doesn't share your morals as some kind of immoral monster? Such arrogance can send you down a dark path.

It's the "advancement" part that bothers me, because his definition of it seems to include stepping on other people.

You have enough evidence to trust that he wants to stop the Reapers, he'll do anything to do so and he values you as a resource.

What more do you need?

I could well believe he'd join the Reapers if he thought it would empower humanity, for instance if he found out that the Reapers intended to uplift humanity into a Reaper state instead of just kill them.

I'm sure you're smart enough to know such is the norm for such operations. You yourself may not appreciate it but I'm sure your Shepard would be used to such things after 10 years in the Alliance.

Among other things, the Alliance possesses accountability and a public history that doesn't consist solely of atrocities.

Shepard never asks.

Shepard does make an interrogative statement, along the lines of "The next thing I know, you'll be wanting to grow your own Reaper." TIM doesn't actually deny this, just repeats his thing about stopping the Reapers at any cost, something he's said before.

And yet you have not proding a reason for why your Shepard believes this.

Because he set up the operation to kidnap biotic children to begin with. If he was going to treat them nicely, he could have just prodded the Alliance into doing more study of biotics and then humanity as a whole would reap more benefits more quickly.

It baffles me that people think this.

Please, try and explain this mindset.

If TIM decided to join the Reapers because he'd rather humanity definitely ascended than possibly be killed. It's not so far-fetched; Saphra Deden himself advocated this.

Cerberus is the same, the difference is they've never hindered you. Why toss them aside and demonize their leader and yet not do the same for the Council?

I'm not tossing them aside. I'd be happy to continue working with TIM afterwards (well, not happy, but tolerant) if he was willing to. Apparently not.

[Sebby]

Fellow blood brothers and Witcher fans here's some good news.

CD Projekt RED will reveal all of the important facts regarding Xbox
360 version of The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings during the upcoming
conference held in Copernicus Science Centre on the 26th of January.

We will be unveiling many exciting details about the game such as
its release date, brand, new trailer, additional features coming to the
console adaptation and many more.
"Witcher 2 on Xbox 360 is not just a simple port of a PC game,
it’s an adaptation. Our newest game has been enhanced with many new
features, and according to many specialists it’s one of the best looking
games on Xbox 360 ever" – said Michał Nowakowski, Member of the board,
CD Projekt RED S.A..

Link

PC version will also get these new Xbox features btw.

Modifié par Seboist, 20 janvier 2012 - 12:22 .

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

I hated having to work for him, but he was still an interesting character.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 20 janvier 2012 - 12:26 .

[philiposophy]

Seboist wrote...

Fellow blood brothers and Witcher fans here's some good news.

CD Projekt RED will reveal all of the important facts regarding Xbox
360 version of The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings during the upcoming
conference held in Copernicus Science Centre on the 26th of January.

We will be unveiling many exciting details about the game such as
its release date, brand, new trailer, additional features coming to the
console adaptation and many more.
"Witcher 2 on Xbox 360 is not just a simple port of a PC game,
it’s an adaptation. Our newest game has been enhanced with many new
features, and according to many specialists it’s one of the best looking
games on Xbox 360 ever" – said Michał Nowakowski, Member of the board,
CD Projekt RED S.A..

Link

PC version will also get these new Xbox features btw.

I don't have anything good enough to run it yet, so in the summer when my terms are over, I'll be able to build a capable computer and intend to play the Witcher 2 on it. I've heard many good things: surely by that time, all the content will be out and I can have a blast.

[Sebby]

philiposophy wrote...

I don't have anything good enough to run it yet, so in the summer when my terms are over, I'll be able to build a capable computer and intend to play the Witcher 2 on it. I've heard many good things: surely by that time, all the content will be out and I can have a blast.

Invest in Witcher 1 too if you haven't already.

[Sebby]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

I hated having to work for him, but he was still an interesting character.

Yeah, he certainly was.....

[Sebby]

Cerberus blood brothers shouldn't feud like this. The Paragons enjoy seeing the brotherhood turn against itself like this!