6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

This thread is starting to look like an obituary! But it's not over yet. Not until we finished playing ME3. And I'm not going down without a fight, no matter how impossible it is to win.

In this spirit, my brethren, I offer you this quote, to express my feelings about me starting ME3 fully knowing that we can't ally with Cerberus, about a situation where the Council might try to sacrifice humanity to save the rest of the galaxy, and about the idea of surrendering to the Reapers because we cannot beat them.

In short, about giving up before the fight is over, even though there's no hope left.

(Saphra, I just remembered how you said that you can't stand poetry, and the urge to quote it became irresistible.)

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

If there's a "Shepard dies" ending in ME3 then my Cerberus loyalist Shepard will take it as she couldn't bare to live without her Illusive man. <3

[PauseforEffect]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Going against Shepard is inherently immoral because Shepard is the player, the player is a customer, and the customer is always right.

Not inherently immoral because Shepard's the player. It's immoral because Shepard is a human working to save humanity, a goal similar to Cerberus but with a different approach. What I find is bull is Cerberus' means justifying the ends. Their methods to save humanity by killing off humanity?
They just cannot make that look like anything else right now.

[CoronadoRose]

Seboist wrote...

CoronadoRose wrote...

Seboist wrote...

If it turns out that we're not able to ally with TIM and Cerberus again in any way,shape or form then I'm not even going to bother importing my Cerberus loyalist femshep. I would have freaking wasted my time creating her, talk about a load of bull****.

I don't know if I should import the pro-Cerberus talimancer either,maybe I should just to continue talimancing....

I feel the same way. They haven't shown the paragon side yet (as far as I know) and they did say it would be "very different". Then again, "very different" could mean he just has his own agenda and isn't allied with the Reapers but you still have to fight him regardless with no other option. Who knows at this point.

And if that is the case, I'll probably only play ME3 once. My main MaleShep who is a paragon that destroyed the base and has Tali as his LI. Depending on how it goes (and not just in regards to TIM, but my other favs as well), I may not be able to play it at all. I know, I'm being very doom and gloom, but that's just how I feel in regards to ME3 right now.

You destroyed the base?! I hope you regret making TIM angry after all he did for your Shep!

lol Nope, my main MaleShep has no remorse at all. He thinks he was right.  

In all seriousness, I can see both points. Using your enemy's knowledge against them is a good plan, but who knows what awful things that tech could be capable of in the wrong hands. And Samara may very well have been right with what she said after the SM if you blew up the base.

[Xilizhra]

And while we're at emotions, I've yet to see Shepard show any strong emotions. I've never even seen him mourn, unlike TIM. Does that make Shepard evil, by your reasoning?

Shepard lacks that elusive "killing the potential savior of the galaxy" quality.
It's also worth pointing out that TIM mourning Shepard, by definition, never happened, and I don't know if it's possible to make any assumptions about his character from that.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 15 septembre 2011 - 04:20 .

[Seboist]

Xilizhra wrote...

And while we're at emotions, I've yet to see Shepard show any strong emotions. I've never even seen him mourn, unlike TIM. Does that make Shepard evil, by your reasoning?

Shepard lacks that elusive "killing the potential savior of the galaxy" quality.
It's also worth pointing out that TIM mourning Shepard, by definition, never happened, and I don't know if it's possible to make any assumptions about his character from that.

The Shepard dies ending is just as canon as anything else.

[Xilizhra]

All right, so what is it that you think TIM is really doing?

The Shepard dies ending is just as canon as anything else.

So, your Shepard is dead?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 15 septembre 2011 - 04:58 .

[Seboist]

Yeah, Shepard dies/lives is no different than Sacrificing/Saving the Council. They're both valid outcomes.

[CoronadoRose]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Shepard dies ending isn't canon as far as ME3 is concerned because it can't happen for ME3 to exist, however it is still a valid portrayal of the Illusive Man because it is part of a canon work over all.

I've never seen it myself. How exactly does the Illusive Man 'mourn'?

Here they are, draw whatever conclusions you may from them.

Base Destroyed


Base Kept

Modifié par CoronadoRose, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:31 .

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Shepard dies ending isn't canon as far as ME3 is concerned because it can't happen for ME3 to exist, however it is still a valid portrayal of the Illusive Man because it is part of a canon work over all.

I've never seen it myself. How exactly does the Illusive Man 'mourn'?

You can see him visibly saddened and it looks like he's wiping tear(s) from his left eye. This happens even if the base is destroyed and speaking of which, he isn't angry like he is in the Shepard lives/base destroyed ending which leads to believe his anger was due in large part to his disapointment in him/her.

I didn't fully appreciate how great of a character he was until seeing those two bad endings. TIM is the best character in the game without a doubt and I'd rather see my Shepard and all her crew die before he does.

Modifié par Seboist, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:45 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

The way TIM engineered things made him sympathetic on first glance, but it was always flirtation with evil, and Shepard was always just another resource to be tossed aside if something better came along.

I like how you ultimately understand TIM better than the Cerbies do, so up you go in my book.

Leliana working for the Divine. An irritant, but not an insurmountable one.

That wasn't half as bad as what happened to the US Warden post-Origins.

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The way TIM engineered things made him sympathetic on first glance, but it was always flirtation with evil, and Shepard was always just another resource to be tossed aside if something better came along.

I like how you ultimately understand TIM better than the Cerbies do, so up you go in my book.

Leliana working for the Divine. An irritant, but not an insurmountable one.

That wasn't half as bad as what happened to the US Warden post-Origins.

You need to get over your Shepard's ego being hurt over realizing he's not in the same league as TIM.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

The way TIM engineered things made him sympathetic on first glance, but it was always flirtation with evil, and Shepard was always just another resource to be tossed aside if something better came along.

However, tossing Shepard aside isn't The Illusive Man's modus operandi unless he'd gain something from it. He'd need reasoning for discarding Shepard, something which he'd benefit from. Mass Effect: Retribution has to work with both Collector Base realities and suggests he'd still be up for working with Shepard (meaning petty revenge is out of the question).

This means he'd only toss Shepard aside if something new came up, something which:

• Fits with his goals and ideals.
• Was absolutely required.

Without fitting the second critera, there's little to no reason for The Illusive Man to possibly wish to see Shepard eliminated unless Shepard threatened Cerberus itself.

Some Shepards completely agree with everything Cerberus does, including their methods, meaning The Illusive Man would need pretty damn good reasoning on why he'd wish to eliminate Shepard if it wasn't completely required and The Illusive Man isn't indoctrinated.

Some people have guessed that The Illusive Man found out why the Reapers desire Shepard's body, something which could change the tide of the war in the person who claims it first's favor.  Such reasoning would still be completely valid for TIM, pro-Cerberus players could respect Cerberus (while gunning them down) for what they're trying to do and it would eliminate Cerberus fans from feeling cheated.

Now that I think about it... that might explain why Silverman laughed and said we should kill ourselves in the game and let that be done with, game over and all that.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 septembre 2011 - 07:39 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

You need to get over your Shepard's ego being hurt over realizing he's not in the same league as TIM.

Hah, as if. I merely see him for what is, a magnificent bastard, and don't trust him because of it.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 15 septembre 2011 - 07:40 .

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Seboist wrote...

You need to get over your Shepard's ego being hurt over realizing he's not in the same league as TIM.

Hah, as if. I merely see him for what is, a magnificent bastard, and don't trust him because of it.

Why wouldn't you trust a man who brought you back to life, gave you a bangin' space crib better than your old one and filled it full of hot honies like Miranda and Kelly?

Need to show some respect son.

[Dave of Canada]

Seboist wrote...

Why wouldn't you trust a man who brought you back to life, gave you a bangin' space crib better than your old one and filled it full of hot honies like Miranda and Kelly?

Need to show some respect son.

Don't forget the superior paint job! The Alliance ruined it!

[Seboist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Why wouldn't you trust a man who brought you back to life, gave you a bangin' space crib better than your old one and filled it full of hot honies like Miranda and Kelly?

Need to show some respect son.

Don't forget the superior paint job! The Alliance ruined it!

My Shepard is going to be real pissed when she hears they've confiscated her man's ship and repainted it. If she doesn't act quick and resolve this TIM might not buy her that fur coat that he promised!

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

Why wouldn't you trust a man who brought you back to life, gave you a bangin' space crib better than your old one and filled it full of hot honies like Miranda and Kelly?

Because he did just that, and obviously expects something in return. Doesn't mean I'm not grateful for the ship or anything, just not grateful enough to play the game exactly how he wants me to play it.

And yeah, dat paintjob ;( 

Someone better ask that question for us on Twitter. At the very least, I hope you guys get to keep your Cerberus paintjob based on the Collector Base decision...

[Dave of Canada]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone better ask that question for us on Twitter. At the very least, I hope you guys get to keep your Cerberus paintjob based on the Collector Base decision...

Who'd we have to ask, though? I don't really have much of an idea who'd we ask that type of question.

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Why wouldn't you trust a man who brought you back to life, gave you a bangin' space crib better than your old one and filled it full of hot honies like Miranda and Kelly?

Because he did just that, and obviously expects something in return. Doesn't mean I'm not grateful for the ship or anything, just not grateful enough to play the game exactly how he wants me to play it.

And yeah, dat paintjob ;( 

Someone better ask that question for us on Twitter. At the very least, I hope you guys get to keep your Cerberus paintjob based on the Collector Base decision...

TIM doesn't want a yes-(wo)man and prefers that Shepard speak her peace. He doesn't even try to get her to become a formal Cerberus operative either.

And I doubt we'd keep the paintjob since the Alliance refurbishes it and we end up fighting Cerberus regardless....

[Kaiser Shepard]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Someone better ask that question for us on Twitter. At the very least, I hope you guys get to keep your Cerberus paintjob based on the Collector Base decision...

Who'd we have to ask, though? I don't really have much of an idea who'd we ask that type of question.

Obviously a matter of this importance has to be taken to Ricitielllo or the good doctors...

I think most of the more prominent devs will be able to answer this question, assuming they're willing to reveal a potential spoiler.

[Dave of Canada]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Obviously a matter of this importance has to be taken to Ricitielllo or the good doctors...

"Dear good doctors, I'm allergic to the color blue and the only prescription is more Cerberus."