6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Labrev]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

^ Out of curiosity, what were you expecting of him/his role in ME3 to stay in-character? Him continuing to help with no apparent strings attached?

Blatant opportunism even as he serves as an unreliable ally.


*snip*

Interesting stuff, I'm just not sure it would have quite the effect. Being a Spectre doesn't necessarily oblige people to cooperating with you, or even wanting to (in many cases, Shepard's own Spectre status got him/her a lot of grief in ME1). And then there's the issue of Cerberus's own reputation being what it is.

While it may keep the council off their back, I don't see it endearing them to many friends, but possibly even less. And I don't see the council doing much to ensure that "Spectre" TIM is untouched.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 22 janvier 2012 - 04:45 .

[John Renegade]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

^ Out of curiosity, what were you expecting of him/his role in ME3 to stay in-character? Him continuing to help with no apparent strings attached?

Blatant opportunism even as he serves as an unreliable ally.


*snip*

Interesting stuff, I'm just not sure it would have quite the effect. Being a Spectre doesn't necessarily oblige people to cooperating with you, or even wanting to (in many cases, Shepard's own Spectre status got him/her a lot of grief in ME1). And then there's the issue of Cerberus's own reputation being what it is.

While it may keep the council off their back, I don't see it endearing them to many friends, but possibly even less. And I don't see the council doing much to ensure that "Spectre" TIM is untouched.

Maybe, but TIM really doesn't need friends as much as he needs a little more free space to maneuver. The Spectre status would mean that no high ranking official in the armies of citadel species would order his troops to attack Cerberus, especially if they are "allies" now.

[Sebby]

wiggles89 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Dragon Age 2 was not trying to be a dating sim. There was plenty more to it than romances and you and that poster are just grasping at straws.

This is true. It also had choices that didn't significantly impact the narrative and combat that consisted solely of killing waves of parachuting ninjas.

And true that the "romances" aren't a small part of it. The "romances" (particularly the gay ones) are the reason why that POS gets glorified by some.

[Blacklash93]

wiggles89 wrote...

Romances were hardly a very small part of the game.

Go ahead and keep deluding yourself.

And true that the "romances" aren't a small part of it. The "romances" (particularly the gay ones) are the reason why that POS gets glorified by some.

They ARE a small part of the game. If you say otherwise again, see above.

And it was the well-defined and entertaining characters and the interaction with them that people liked. That's not glorifying the game as a whole. Any game has its strengths and weaknesses. Just because DA2 happens to have more of the latter doesn't take away credit from the former.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 22 janvier 2012 - 08:16 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

It does.

[HiroVoid]

wiggles89 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

Romances were hardly a very small part of the game.

Go ahead and keep deluding yourself.

Yeah, not really. Over half of the party members were love interests, a few of them appear as though they were designed speicifically for romances and romances occupy a significant amount of the game's content. The only one deluding oneself here is you.

Unfortunately, I think that's probably how a lot of characters end up being made.  Instead of going, 'what character would be interesting to bring here, or how would this character affect the universe and plot?'  Many seem like their initially designed soley to go 'Hey.  What character would people like to have relations with?'  Thus, how Isabela and Merril fit respective types from 'Sexy' to 'Girl next door'.

....Not to mention that in Mass Effect 2, you had to romance a character to get half their dialogue.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 23 janvier 2012 - 12:49 .

[Sebby]

Speaking of romances....

[Sebby]

wiggles89 wrote...

Eww, Merrill.

Her childlike persona and physique elicit that response from me too.

Merrill, ME1 Liara and ME3 EDI are a disturbing trend I'm noticing with BW.

[Blacklash93]

wiggles89 wrote...
Yeah, not really. Over half of the party members were love interests, a few of them appear as though they were designed specifically for romances and romances occupy a significant amount of the game's content. The only one deluding oneself here is you.

Out of what? 7? Bioware has to have at least 2 LI's per gender and it's not like Kaiden or Ashley, Miranda or Jacob, or whatever were any different in Mass Effect.

And no, the character friendships and rivalries were just as satisfying as the romances. It's all part of an overall relationship system and romances are a small, optional part of that. You're absolutely kidding yourself for thinking they make up a significant part of the game.

Beat your head against the wall all you want, that doesn't change the truth.

It does.

Not for people who can take and judge different aspects of a game independently without letting other shortcomings color their view in a negative way against everything else. Someone you aren't, apparently. That's your problem and don't pretend it's that of everyone.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 23 janvier 2012 - 03:26 .

[Dean_the_Young]

John Renegade wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

^ Out of curiosity, what were you expecting of him/his role in ME3 to stay in-character? Him continuing to help with no apparent strings attached?

Blatant opportunism even as he serves as an unreliable ally.


*snip*

Interesting stuff, I'm just not sure it would have quite the effect. Being a Spectre doesn't necessarily oblige people to cooperating with you, or even wanting to (in many cases, Shepard's own Spectre status got him/her a lot of grief in ME1). And then there's the issue of Cerberus's own reputation being what it is.

While it may keep the council off their back, I don't see it endearing them to many friends, but possibly even less. And I don't see the council doing much to ensure that "Spectre" TIM is untouched.

Maybe, but TIM really doesn't need friends as much as he needs a little more free space to maneuver. The Spectre status would mean that no high ranking official in the armies of citadel species would order his troops to attack Cerberus, especially if they are "allies" now.

Pretty much. Especially since TIM himself wouldn't walk about to present himself for a target, it's more of a legal cover to do what they've always done, openly, and a public concession of recognition rather than a 'and then every Cerberus agent was a Spectre.'

Heck, on a meta-level I'd even see it as a ploy to weaken the Spectres in the post-war. The Spectre system relies a great deal on the discretion of the Spectres themselves to not make it politically unteneable: the assets of practicality are dependent on being low-cost politically.

By abusing the **** of Spectre privelages in a public manner, Spectre-Cerberus could incite a backlash against all Spectres as a whole. Even though Cerberus itself would be the primary target for immediate revocation as soon as the war is over, almost certainly regardless of conduct, it could act as a poison pill for the institution even as it left. No more public faith in the Spectre institution, the less able they are to do whatever they see fit to get the job done. The more restrained they are, the less effective. The less effective, the less they can do against Cerberus.

Cerberus gets public legitimacy. Cerberus gets wartime gains from the freedoms of Spectre status, if not obedience or unlimited gains. And after the war, Cerberus weakens the Best of the Best in opposing it.


That is what could be called a win-win-win gambit.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

Eww, Merrill.

Her childlike persona and physique elicit that response from me too.

Merrill, ME1 Liara and ME3 EDI are a disturbing trend I'm noticing with BW.

Sadly enough, some "people" actually buy these games just because they contain said childlike characters to "romance". Can you believe that?

Blacklash93 wrote...

Not for people who can take and judge different aspects of a game independently without letting other shortcomings color their view in a negative way against everything else. Someone you aren't, apparently. That's your problem

It isn't.

and don't pretend it's that of everyone.

It is.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 23 janvier 2012 - 03:53 .

[Blacklash93]

My... such compelling arguments. However will I counter them?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 23 janvier 2012 - 04:05 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Blacklash93 wrote...

My... such compelling arguments. However will I counter them?

The same way you "counter" other arguments, namely not at all?

[Blacklash93]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

My... such compelling arguments. However will I counter them?

The same way you "counter" other arguments, namely not at all?

Like what you just did? I'll take your word for it.

I've stated my opinion on the matter and I'm sure plenty would agree with me. Character relationships are a strength of DA2.

[Sebby]

Character relationships in DA2

[Xilizhra]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Blacklash93]

Seboist wrote...

Character relationships in DA2

You keep telling yourself that.

[Xilizhra]

I admit, I love how TIM is apparently so uninteresting that even his most ardent fellaters can't keep the topic centered on him.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:15 .

[RunAwayItzJack]

The Illusive Man... I love to hate him ahahaha

Hope I get to put one between his eyes when all is said and done. Especially after reading Ascension and Retribution.

Actually. I hope you get to do one of those awesome hand to hand combat scenes like in LotSB.

[Blacklash93]

laecraft wrote...

Romances in DA2 were the only part of the plot that the player could actually influence (although there was that epilogue bug that overrode even that,) no wonder they received so much focus. The rest of the plot is completely railroaded. I wonder if the devs thought that if they gave the players control over who the character could date, the players wouldn't ask for more.

Friendship and Rivalry platonic relationships say hai.