6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

^ He's getting soft, isn't he.

Although I'd be really surprised if the reason he turns on Shepard is PR.

Pure Retardation is indeed the reason judging by the script.

[BlueMagitek]

Hopefully there's a good Shepard related pun in there, flock running wild.

I mean, if we're going to have villainy, we need puns, yeah?

[Seboist]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Hopefully there's a good Shepard related pun in there, flock running wild.

I mean, if we're going to have villainy, we need puns, yeah?

There was actually a Shepard pun in that indoctrinated scientist dialogue from the reaper derelict that was cut.

[hugh305]

Seboist wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

He may have had great intentions but he's a idiot. TIM ego let him ruin a perfect situations by setting up Shepard and the team twice. Horizon and the collector ship could have been done differently and more beneficial. Also why poison the waters by saying Shep's with them they should of tried unifying instead creating a divide. Even if they had to pretend to be a different organization.

TIM's masterful planning with Horizon and the Collector ship saved lives and gained valuable intel for the ultimate victory against the Collectors. He's a brilliant strategist.

Or, like they did in Retribution with Grayson, the Reapers are manipulating Tim to further their ends.  The set-up on Horizon and the Collector ship could have been opportunities for the Collectors to take Shep alive which failed - Tim thinks he's doing it for humanity but his goals have been twisted and he doesn't even know it?

That's how I see the events in ME2 - the last ditch effort by Tim to save the collector base 'For Humanity' could have just as easlily been Reaper manipulation to further their goals imo

[BlueMagitek]

The base being destroyed is an inconvenience for the Reapers at most; thinking that they need it, when they have all the time in the world to build another one using indoctrinated slaves, is pretty silly.

And, if TIM was being manipulated the entire time, why bring Shepard back in the first place? Or give him the ability to take out the base?

[Golden Owl]

hugh305 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

He may have had great intentions but he's a idiot. TIM ego let him ruin a perfect situations by setting up Shepard and the team twice. Horizon and the collector ship could have been done differently and more beneficial. Also why poison the waters by saying Shep's with them they should of tried unifying instead creating a divide. Even if they had to pretend to be a different organization.

TIM's masterful planning with Horizon and the Collector ship saved lives and gained valuable intel for the ultimate victory against the Collectors. He's a brilliant strategist.

Or, like they did in Retribution with Grayson, the Reapers are manipulating Tim to further their ends.  The set-up on Horizon and the Collector ship could have been opportunities for the Collectors to take Shep alive which failed - Tim thinks he's doing it for humanity but his goals have been twisted and he doesn't even know it?

That's how I see the events in ME2 - the last ditch effort by Tim to save the collector base 'For Humanity' could have just as easlily been Reaper manipulation to further their goals imo

Though it's cold, tIM made the right choice with Horizon...he had to manipulate the Collectors into picking an assured target in order to catch up with them...the way it had been going all anyone could do was after the fact damage control....It was a cold hard decision and my heart goes out to the poor souls who's colony happened to be picked...but it was either one colony or many, many more.

As for the Collector Ship....I really personally don't think tIM needed to withhold the info from Shep, I consider that an un-necessary measure.....Shep personifies a comment one of the followers on Skyrim makes to the protaganist "What you lack in wisdom, you make up for in courage"....I reckon that's pretty much Shep through and through....Shep still would have barreled through the Collector Ship no matter how much info he was privy to.

As for tIM's leaking Sheps involvement with Cerberus, I still don't quite getthat one myself.

[Seboist]

Golden Owl wrote...

As for tIM's leaking Sheps involvement with Cerberus, I still don't quite getthat one myself.

He wanted to sour Shepard's reputation in order for he® to have nobody else to turn to for help against the Collectors.

[Seboist]

Parody of ME3 "TIM" courtesy of the 'dex

[Golden Owl]

Seboist wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

As for tIM's leaking Sheps involvement with Cerberus, I still don't quite getthat one myself.

He wanted to sour Shepard's reputation in order for he® to have nobody else to turn to for help against the Collectors.

Though I am just in the middle of a playthrough now and yesterday finished the Horizon mission and noted tIM actually kind of explains to Shep why he did it....Was a part of bringing the Collectors out into the open...as the Collectors are looking for Sheps friends also....so by tIM attracting Kaidan/Ash to Horizon due to invetigating Sheps Cerberus connection, it upped the chances of the Collectors taking special interest and showing up....By telling the Alliance about Sheps involvement tIM was drawing Kaidan/Ash out into the open and using them as bait....Thats how I understand it anyway.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 11 février 2012 - 01:36 .

[Seboist]

That too. TIM's a master planner.

[Golden Owl]

laecraft wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

As for the Collector Ship....I really personally don't think tIM needed to withhold the info from Shep, I consider that an un-necessary measure.....Shep personifies a comment one of the followers on Skyrim makes to the protaganist "What you lack in wisdom, you make up for in courage"....I reckon that's pretty much Shep through and through....Shep still would have barreled through the Collector Ship no matter how much info he was privy to.

I agree, TIM should know Shepard well enough to trust him with that. Both Paragon and Renegade Shepard risks his life daily. There is nothing Shepard wants more than to destroy the Reapers. Shepard would have agreed to be bait if he knew about the trap, and there is no way he could've alerted the Collectors to his knowledge if he behaved normally.

I also think that that dialogue option where Shepard can throw a fit about TIM putting his life in danger is unnecessary. It makes Shepard sound selfish at best and a coward at worst, or worse, a bystander who's not dedicated to destroying the Reapers by using whatever means necessary.

As a result, TIM lost much of Shepard's trust for nothing, and gave the anti-TIM players more reason to hate and condemn him.

I concur...I really can't imagine any morality Sheps backing down, would more than agree to being bait if it gets what he needs to bring the Collectors/Reapers down.

Unfortunately BW has done both tIM and Shep many injustices....as you point out Sheps derpy and unfitting dialog choices for one....As for tIM, he has all the makings to be an awesome super villian (anti-hero possibly?)....making sense in an extreme cold hard calculating way, making the hard calls others would choke on....someone who REALLY gets us questioning ourselves and how far we would be prepared to go to save the Galaxy...He is someone I would both love to despise and grudgingly know he is the one person I can count on to go the miles and do what needs to be done to defeat the Reapers....I think BW tried that in ME2, but failed to have people really feel it and see it....tIM could have been an epic Glorious B*stard.....someone you choke on, but know his right on so many issues....Personally as a Paragon player I am also VERY disappointed in what BW has done with tIM in ME3, I want to love to hate tIM, have him really mess with my head and my own perceptions of right and wrong and how far does one go....But I feel BW has pandered to the "I want black and white" morality crowd...though grey shade challenges are so much more fun and interesting to play with....he should not have been the straight up villian in ME3, he has so much potential to be so much more.

[Seboist]

Link to the caricature TIM turns into in ME3 (Spoilers)

[Golden Owl]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

laecraft wrote...

I agree, TIM should know Shepard well enough to trust him with that. Both Paragon and Renegade Shepard risks his life daily. There is nothing Shepard wants more than to destroy the Reapers. Shepard would have agreed to be bait if he knew about the trap, and there is no way he could've alerted the Collectors to his knowledge if he behaved normally.

I also think that that dialogue option where Shepard can throw a fit about TIM putting his life in danger is unnecessary. It makes Shepard sound selfish at best and a coward at worst, or worse, a bystander who's not dedicated to destroying the Reapers by using whatever means necessary.

As a result, TIM lost much of Shepard's trust for nothing, and gave the anti-TIM players more reason to hate and condemn him.

It's not about trust. It's not about selfishness or cowardice. It's about pride. 

I never expected TIM to trust me. Our relationship is that of mutual exploitation between employer and employee - it's based on a debt that I owe, not trust. 

However, I expected TIM to respect me as I respected him. Especially after all that he spent on Project Lazarus. After all that pompous flattery TIM treated Shepard as nothing more than a farm animal of no sentience, intelligence, or motivation. I think Shepard put it well: "You say I'm important but you sure try hard to get me killed."

I don't expect TIM to respect any government authority. I don't expect TIM to respect life, not even Human life. But Shepard is TIM's major investment. That he throws Shepard's life about so frivolously is a sign of megalomaniac stupidity, which all his charm and charisma cannot gloss over. It is straight from that observation that I know TIM is likely to fail in the end - I didn't expect him to get indoctrinated, no, but I did expect him to fail based on how recklessly he handled the DCS.

What debt?....

[Golden Owl]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

It's not about trust. It's not about selfishness or cowardice. It's about pride. 

I never expected TIM to trust me. Our relationship is that of mutual exploitation between employer and employee - it's based on a debt that I owe, not trust. 

What debt?....

Project Lazarus? Shepard's second life? 

Shep didn't request that, it just happened to him, he had no say....he owes tIM nothing....tIM didn't bring back Shep for Shep, tIM bought him back to fight the Reapers....Sheps life given back was just the result of not the reason for the his resurrection.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 11 février 2012 - 03:23 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Seboist wrote...

Link to the caricature TIM turns into in ME3 (Spoilers)

God, that is a bad concept.