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Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread


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#6426
Seboist

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Saphra Deden wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Exactly my question. Didn't ME1 established him more than clearly as an opportunist? So why should that exclude Cerberus I don't get


All it established was that he was pro-human and irritable.

Whether he is an opportunist or not... can't say.

Personally I don't think he'd have a problem with Cerberus per-se but I don't think he'd tie himself to them because it is just not a good thing for a career politician to do.

If I had to bet on any ME1 characters having ties to Cerberus it would be Hackett. In fact, until Arrival I'd have wagered he might actually be a member.


Yeah, he seemed to know more about Akuze that he was letting on and then there was all that TIM-esque shadyness like taking advantage of Shepard's spectre status to do all sorts of dirty work for the Alliance like taking down Major Kyle and Lord Darius while keeping It's hands clean.

#6427
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Another good post from RPG Codex about the failings of the main plot and a comparison with the Persona series.

The ultimate plot failure of ME was made as soon as Bioware decided that
the hero of a galaxy-wide group of humans and aliens could be one
really angry asshole who shoots things with small arms (all the while
doing exactly as he is told in a linear story, of course). The majority
of other plot failures all lead back to this main failure that they try
to work around through increasingly retarded means.

Incidentally, ME2's plot reminds me of the Persona games. Both basically
have you waiting around doing random **** to make friends until an
arbitrary timer is up and the deus ex machina comes to tell you how to
get to the next plot segment. The only difference is that one game
involves emotionally insecure teenaged-level children who, in between
crying sessions, fawn over the main character constantly and his
ridiculously overblown abilities in an attempt to offer the player a
virtual ******. The other, of course, is a JRPG.


Modifié par Seboist, 16 février 2012 - 10:47 .


#6428
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I don't think that poster has a firm grip on what "deus ex machina" means.

#6429
John Renegade

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Frankly, I think this would have been an excellent consequence for if Cerberus had gotten the intact Collector Base, and not been an outright antagonist. Besides the other goodies, the Collector Base being the catalyst to a Cerberus army actually does make sense... and could have been a good 'consequence' in determining whether Cerberus was a small force in ME3 (fewer commandoes, only the forces for an eleventh hour betrayal), or a major force (lots of war assets, and a major force in the post-war).

Or how about just indoctrinating the Council?

With the first-owner advantage, Cerberus mastering indoctrination could have had awesome contexts and scenarios. The Citadel coup could have been something subtle and unnoticed, rather than overt.

I think, that indoctrination as you described it when also coupled with the fact that 'the more is one indoctrinated, the less capable he becomes' would make a really interesting tool in storytelling of ME3.

You could technically indoctrinate anyone, but why decrease the abilities of those, who are already on your side? The human council could actually believe in the Reapers from the very beginning, and because they are actively trying to help you, no mind control is necessary. On the other hand, there might be certain people mostly from the other species, like for example a turian primarch, who would refuse to help humanity as much as he can, if humans control the Council, but who is more than glad to help their allies who saved the Citadel several years ago.

Of course, because the human Council means a cold war between humans and turians, the not exactly cooperating primarch might be in a possession of a bigger and/or better army than the cooperative one. But when indoctrinated, he might be a bit worse general (or maybe not, we don't know, how exactly the indoctrination affects a sapient mind). And what if you've destroyed the base and killed the Council? The fact that you change your attitude in this kind of big decisions could cost you a valuable ally.

---

The other thing I was thinking about was that maybe Cerberus could in the Base preserved scenario have something iconic, something what would show the true power of the organization all in one construct. And then it hit me.

A ship.

A ship, the size of a superdreadnaught (around two kilometers, like Sovereign was), having incorporated all the bleeding edge technology Cerberus recovered mostly from the base, but also other places, this vessel would, just like a Reaper, be a ship and an armored military base all in one. The Prometheus, named after the titan who gave humans fire and for his actions was subsequently ostracized and punished by a sea of torment, but in the end had to be recognized by the other gods again, would have the shields, armor, weapons and equipment on a level of a Sovereign-type Reaper. The equipment would amongst other things include Oculi and modified seeker swarms, which could not only freeze enemies, but also protect people by a biotic barrier, the latter being used heavily to protect  civilian population during colonial defenses and liberations.

Prometheus would also serve as a carrier, hosting several (heavy)frigates and fighters/interceptors, equipped with strong weapons (maybe Thanix Cannons), could drop a few dozen Atlas mechs and also could... I think you get the picture. Though the swarms, oculi, ship (and personal) beam weapons etc... are being used by all Cerberus personnel and the superdreadnaught is not the only military ship Cerberus has (not by a long shot, Cerberus has many other military assets, which and how many, that I'll leave up to interpretation for the time being), it is by far the strongest one and as a direct result, Illusive Man doesn't want to risk its destruction by the Reaper forces, unless it would be in an absolutely vital mission. As a consequence, many not-that-vital missions are handled by grunts. (Very often not even by loyal Cerberus commandos like in Invasion, though that can happen as well, but the indoctrinated puppets usually from the other species.) This also means that there are many situations, when Cerberus, civilian and other people are sacrificed, because the Illusive man doesn't want to risk loosing his precious ship in trying to quickly resolve the situation.

Oh, speaking about personnel, can you guess, who would be in charge of Cerberus' top of the line ship? That's right, it's our favorite general Oleg Petrovsky. A general who, by the way, doesn't like sacrificing not only his men but people in general, when there is other way around. And though he understands the order to stay away from anything but the most important missions, it still tears him apart when he sees so many people die. This dilemma of his and maybe Shepard persuading him one was or another and possibly shaping an outcome(s) of some situation(s) in ME3 could make for an interesting story, don't you think?

#6430
Dean_the_Young

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I approve of the Prometheus.

Even plays the greek-theme.

#6431
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I like the name and where it is coming from. It is very Cerberus. However I'm not sure I like the idea of the ship itself.

I'd just as soon re-name the Collector base to "Prometheus Station" (wait, didn't we already have that?) and have Cerberus pump out cybernetic upgrades, particle beam weapons, and other such Reaper technologies that jump humanity forward.

#6432
BlueMagitek

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

I approve of the Prometheus.

Even plays the greek-theme.


So the entire Cerberus Brotherhood is dedicated to playing a game of Promethean The Created?

Man, I really should have joined if that was the case. ~_~

#6433
Seboist

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BlueMagitek wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I approve of the Prometheus.

Even plays the greek-theme.


So the entire Cerberus Brotherhood is dedicated to playing a game of Promethean The Created?

Man, I really should have joined if that was the case. ~_~


It's never too late to join the brotherhood!

#6434
BlueMagitek

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I'm afraid that, while I do like Cerberus and the angle they had, I always thought they were going to be a problem post Reaper invasion (if there is a post Reaper invasion). So shooting a potential ally in the foot seemed unwise, regardless of who they were.

So while I appreciate that Cerberus fills its needed niche, there are other ways that Spectre Shepard can influence & increase human prominence (or at the very least, protect what they have). Ways that may be impossible with "baggage", so to speak.

#6435
Seboist

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None of my Shepards were able to get Spectre status in ME2 so Cerberus all the way baby.

#6436
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I suppose the idea might work, but it needs to be toned down. That ship is a little too powerful. It might be better if Cerberus took the husk of the Collector vessel and repaired and upgraded it.

#6437
Dean_the_Young

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Saphra Deden wrote...

I like the name and where it is coming from. It is very Cerberus. However I'm not sure I like the idea of the ship itself.

I'd just as soon re-name the Collector base to "Prometheus Station" (wait, didn't we already have that?) and have Cerberus pump out cybernetic upgrades, particle beam weapons, and other such Reaper technologies that jump humanity forward.

Ooh, how about we slap an engine on the Collector Base, and fly that around? It looked like a big canon anyway.



But yeah, just having a mobile Collector Base as the Cerberus mobile shipyard of doom would be impressive in its own right. With the Collector Cruiser being their actual ship of doom.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 17 février 2012 - 03:20 .


#6438
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No more ships that look like giant flying poos!

#6439
Dean_the_Young

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But it'd be...

Da ****.

#6440
Dave of Canada

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I believe they do manage to move the Base over to Horizon... or was that the research? I know the Human Reaper is there.

#6441
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That's right.  I always thought the human colonies in the Terminus would be an ideal manpower source/power base for a "Cerberus Empire."  Given what Cerberus has done for 'em they'd probably be pretty enthusiastic about it too.


Oh!  and...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
But it'd be...

Da ****.

YYYEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

Modifié par General User, 17 février 2012 - 03:35 .


#6442
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"Cerberus Empire"

No. The very concept of a big and powerful Cerberus is retarded.

#6443
Seboist

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The codex says Cerberus has been nicknamed the "illusive empire". That makes me wonder if it's a reference to the Ku Klux Klan and their "invisible empire" name.

#6444
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I'm guessing yes.

Somebody get me a white hood.

What effigy should we burn? A cross won't make sense.

Oh I know, what's the symbol they often use to represent humanity in medical journals and such? It's like a man with several legs and arms pointing to different points on a circle...

#6445
Seboist

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Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm guessing yes.

Somebody get me a white hood.

What effigy should we burn? A cross won't make sense.


Oh I know, what's the symbol they often use to represent humanity in medical journals and such? It's like a man with several legs and arms pointing to different points on a circle...


The Klan doesn't burn the cross, they light it.

#6446
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Seboist wrote...

The Klan doesn't burn the cross, they light it.


Right right. Light, burn, whatever. It's on fire. That's the important part.

#6447
Seboist

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The Klan doesn't burn the cross, they light it.


Right right. Light, burn, whatever. It's on fire. That's the important part.


With that attitude don't be surprised if you're the one that's set on fire.

Modifié par Seboist, 17 février 2012 - 04:08 .


#6448
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Saphra Deden wrote...

Oh I know, what's the symbol they often use to represent humanity in medical journals and such? It's like a man with several legs and arms pointing to different points on a circle...

It's Leonardo da Vinci's "Vitruvian Man".

#6449
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Vishnu?

#6450
GodWood

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Image IPB

Looks like a complicated symbol to put together.