6970 réponses à ce sujet

[HiroVoid]

Hellbound555 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

Cerberus' roll became more prominent as the game went on. Their was foreshadowing with this if you do the more cerberus-centric sidequests from mass1.

Where was this foreshadowing at? I did all of the ME1 Cerberus missions and, judging by the fact that Shepard "wiped them out," I'd say it was the opposite.

well i dunno about you but i always got the impression that cerberus was a lot more powerful than a black ops team. Being able to send thresher maws to solesurvivor Shep's backstory, killing that admiral, making an entire marine team disappear. the work they did with the rachni. And the next game build up on that.

The thresher maws was at least when they had Alliance backing.

[Homebound]

Well then I guess all I had was a hunch that Cerberus was bigger than what it was in mass 1 and turned out to be right.

[Seboist]

Cerberus' ME3 role was as foreshadowed as the Council and Udina going full retard in ME2, which is to say not at all and completely against what was established.

[Homebound]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

Well then I guess all I had was a hunch that Cerberus was bigger than what it was in mass 1 and turned out to be right.

Yeah, I bet you're a real visionary.

I do my best.:innocent:

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Moral as its basis might be considered subjective, but at the end it (have to) deals with benefiting the government for the good of all, established human relations and some virtues which are both pragmatic and rational.

It becomes the code of conduct (individual, social and political-militaristic) and pursuing of wisdom.

[Seboist]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus' ME3 role was as foreshadowed as the Council and Udina going full retard in ME2, which is to say not at all and completely against what was established.

Does the Council admit that the Reapers are real at the end of ME1? I can't remember, but it doesn't seem like they do.

Yes.

"You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers" - Asari Councilor (5:04)

And if you pick Udina as the councilor he talks abou how the galaxy/humanity will drive the reapers back into dark space.

There's a reason why the brotherhood refers to the ME series as a bunch of semi-reboots with a loose continuity.

[Homebound]

I guess my main gripe with Cerberus and TiM is, a lot of the methods used to attain their goals lacks a certain level of compassion.

[HiroVoid]

Hellbound555 wrote...

I guess my main gripe with Cerberus and TiM is, a lot of the methods used to attain their goals lacks a certain level of compassion.

I actually agree with this, and I feel its where they failed at trying to make Cerberus and TIM grey like it seems they wanted to in interviews.  Instead of David being hung up clock-work orange style, imagine him on a bed, and when Gavin comes in he injects some type of drugs into him to calm his body's nervous system while trying to comfort him.

This is one of those instances where it seems they went the evil route for shock value, and simply to make people want to hate Cerberus and TIM rather than trying to portray them as grey.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 19 février 2012 - 07:46 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Seboist wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus' ME3 role was as foreshadowed as the Council and Udina going full retard in ME2, which is to say not at all and completely against what was established.

Does the Council admit that the Reapers are real at the end of ME1? I can't remember, but it doesn't seem like they do.

Yes.

"You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers" - Asari Councilor (5:04)

And if you pick Udina as the councilor he talks abou how the galaxy/humanity will drive the reapers back into dark space.

There's a reason why the brotherhood refers to the ME series as a bunch of semi-reboots with a loose continuity.

Do you mean Brotherhood of steel? I'm already a member!

[BlueMagitek]

Hellbound555 wrote...

I guess my main gripe with Cerberus and TiM is, a lot of the methods used to attain their goals lacks a certain level of compassion.

You can literally say that about every government or organization in the ME-verse that has a fleshed out backstory.

Council?  No, no, they won't help colonies being attacked by Geth (a problem they refused to face the first time around) near the Terminus it might incite a war!  But a Quarian colony being created in the Terminus Systems?  Requires orbital bombardment immediately.

Alliance?  So, turians, I heard you like taking a ship full of human refuges.  Feel free to.  Oh, also, Shepard who has been amazingly renegade, why don't you go "talk" to that person who is causing us some trouble?  It's just a diplomatic meeting, so be sure to bring your assault rifle.

Salarians?  What?  No no, this vial that says "Re Genophage application" is, um... uh... look, something shiny!  Oh, and we totally slaughtered our previous organization 'cause we felt like it. 

Turians?  Oh, hello there new species that we've yet to contact.  Allow us to share our greetings with fire and death.  And then we're going to make you a client race, mmkay?  Also, I heard Krogans like having children, let's mess that up for them.

I think you get the point.

[BlueMagitek]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Templars are mostly a bunch of self-righteous crusaders with a "holy duty" to suppress mages where they're inconvinient and exploit them when they're useful. But they do have a point in that mages are very dangerous individuals whose freedom would possibly create another Tevinter and/or create a world ruled by powerful demons. Pretty much any mage who so much as steps a foot in that direction hurts so many people it's simply not worth the risk of keeping them free.

Most Mages are equally self-righteous and consider their freedom to be something that shouldn't even have to be debated. Most of them can't fathom the responsibilty on their shoulders that their magic burdens them with and probably wouldn't even know what to do with their lives with freedom. They're also terribly ungrateful to the Chantry for protecting them from those who would kill them from being what they are and teaching them how to use their gifts. But they are right in that they shouldn't be treated like sub-human drones who must be confined to a tower for their whole lives.

DA2 showed the worst of both sides and even if it makes both factions seem unlikable, at least you know there is no easy answer.

I wish the ME team could write and flesh out conflicts like ths. ME basically goes "Press X to end world hunger." with most of its issues.

Templar abuses in the system happen, this means the system needs to be altered, but not eliminated.  You saw what happened when a child mage was watching his father die; he did a human thing and made a bargain with a demon to save his father's life.  It was understandable, but it got a lot of people killed and a lot of elves mutilated.  If he had been in the Circle, that wouldn't have happened. 

Sure, the Circle could have, and should have, more interaction with the outside world, and yes, the Templar system needs to be more rigorously enforced, but we shouldn't throw the entire system out for a few bad apples.

But enough about Dragon Age.

[Homebound]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Ah, alright. Well, we might have uncovered a split within the Council then.

Does the Turian Councilor acknowledge this? In ME2, does the Asari Councilor agree with the Turian's airquoting?

I realize I'm possibly giving them a lot more credit than they deserve, but there IS a possibility that the Asari agrees with you, while the Turian doesn't, and they can't show their dissent openly.

Im guessing the council more or less agree with one another that the reapers are a possible threat but dont say anything because a) it would cause panic b)they already have a SpecTre working on it.

The turian councillor I think is smarter than he lets on. remember turian society works by having people in their jobs based on their ability. He would be turian councillor if the turian society didnt see him fit for the job.

[Tom Lehrer]

I don't mind what TIM and Cerberus are to the story but it does seem odd how they have been changed over all three games. In ME1 they are a rogue black ops group, ME2 a small but very very well funded secret organization, ME3 a military power that seems to have a whole fleet and who knows how many troops...

[Homebound]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Hellbound555 wrote...

I guess my main gripe with Cerberus and TiM is, a lot of the methods used to attain their goals lacks a certain level of compassion.

You can literally say that about every government or organization in the ME-verse that has a fleshed out backstory.

Council?  No, no, they won't help colonies being attacked by Geth (a problem they refused to face the first time around) near the Terminus it might incite a war!  But a Quarian colony being created in the Terminus Systems?  Requires orbital bombardment immediately.

Alliance?  So, turians, I heard you like taking a ship full of human refuges.  Feel free to.  Oh, also, Shepard who has been amazingly renegade, why don't you go "talk" to that person who is causing us some trouble?  It's just a diplomatic meeting, so be sure to bring your assault rifle.

Salarians?  What?  No no, this vial that says "Re Genophage application" is, um... uh... look, something shiny!  Oh, and we totally slaughtered our previous organization 'cause we felt like it. 

Turians?  Oh, hello there new species that we've yet to contact.  Allow us to share our greetings with fire and death.  And then we're going to make you a client race, mmkay?  Also, I heard Krogans like having children, let's mess that up for them.

I think you get the point.

Its not that simple.

[ObserverStatus]

All this hating needs to stop, someone post a picture with tIM and jar of Nutella!

[BlueMagitek]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

But enough about Dragon Age.

Never!

Poor Mage Elf Warden gets like, zero unique shout outs in DA2, when you'd think the combination of Mage + Elf would, you know, have some sort of impact. =D

Hellbound555 wrote...

Its not that simple.

Why not?  Every organization or government has a dark side, let's not pretend that Cerberus is unique when it comes to skeletons in the closet.

[Homebound]

@Blue
true but those organizations and government have something Cerberus does not have.

Regulations.

[Homebound]

bobobo878 wrote...

All this hating needs to stop, someone post a picture with tIM and jar of Nutella!

[BlueMagitek]

Hellbound555 wrote...

@Blue
true but those organizations and government have something Cerberus does not have.

Regulations.

Since when has the Council had regulations?  They seem to determine things on a whim.  Where is the accountability, the checks and the balances?

And since when have they always followed regulations?  Don't forget that Hackett makes Shepard his personal asassin, potentially twice in a game, when he notes that such a thing is illegal under the Alliance.  And if the Alliance is sketching the law with one spectre, you can bet the other species are doing so as well.

[Seboist]

bobobo878 wrote...

All this hating needs to stop, someone post a picture with tIM and jar of Nutella!

There's plenty of love underneath all the hostility like in the relationship between TIM and femshep.

Modifié par Seboist, 19 février 2012 - 08:14 .