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[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Just let it get destroyed, along with the rest of the Citadel. If the species of the galaxy are able to all work together, they should be able to so with a shallow artificial symbol.

Nah. I'd rather use everything I can; in any case, there are too many people on the Citadel for me to throw it away for a pure political move. And I want as little chaos as possible.

Would you save it even at the cost of Earth, the Flotilla or one of the alien homerworlds?

[Xilizhra]

Would you save it even at the cost of Earth, the Flotilla or one of the alien homerworlds?

Given that it controls the relay network, if we lose it, we're probably all ****ed.

Also, I know it's late, but...

Maybe you only mean the teammates? Those people who lectured me after I saved the base? I'm not sure I trust in their judgement anymore. Most of them, anyway. And my Shepard is getting so very tired of being constantly condemned for all his efforts to save the galaxy. Enough is enough, I won't be judged constantly. If they're unwilling to offer me even a little faith, after I proved myself countless times, I have no use for them. I've put them behind me, and I don't look back.

You don't know if you trust their judgment? Despite the fact that they were more right than you about TIM? What?

[Valdrane78]

I'm out for illusive blood. You don't go and set several traps for me, then command someone on my team to stop me and get away with it. When he and I finally meet, he will have my response......at muzzle velocity!

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Given that it controls the relay network, if we lose it, we're probably all ****ed.

How so, exactly? And even then, Reaper IFF's probably allow us to bypass that.

You don't know if you trust their judgment? Despite the fact that they were more right than you about TIM? What?

Some of them go from "Keep the base, Commander." to "No, you fool!" in a span of about 15 ingame minutes, including the credits. Not exactly trustworthy, no.

[Xilizhra]

How so, exactly? And even then, Reaper IFF's probably allow us to bypass that.

They could shut down the entire mass relay network unless one of them wanted to use it, and completely ruin our mobility. And probably change the IFF codes.

Some of them go from "Keep the base, Commander." to "No, you fool!" in a span of about 15 ingame minutes, including the credits. Not exactly trustworthy, no.

Time to consider their actions, probably. In any case, most of them remain consistent.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2011 - 01:43 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Just destroy it then, problem solved. And seeing how a Reaper that's been dead for Jubileus knows how many cycles still had an up-to-date IFF...

And no, just the Paragon ones remain consistent.

[Xilizhra]

Just destroy it then, problem solved. And seeing how a Reaper that's been dead for Jubileus knows how many cycles still had an up-to-date IFF...

I'm not sure if the Citadel can be destroyed, and in any case, that'd probably turn off the network completely, and Reapers can probably reopen them manually.

And no, just the Paragon ones remain consistent.

Which is most of them. Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Samara/Morinth, Thane, Tali, and Kasumi, and Legion doesn't give an opinion so much as a fact. The opinion comes later. Only Mordin, Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed change their minds, and I don't know if Zaeed even says anything, so it might just be Mordin/Garrus/Grunt.
I also find it interesting that both Cerberus squadmates think it's a bad idea.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2011 - 02:01 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Well, it most certainly is a bad idea, but that doesn't excuse bad writing.

[Xilizhra]

It's only 3/4 cases of bad writing out of 12. That's not terrible.

[Kaiser Shepard]

That's just this instance, and even then at least three of these mistakes during controlled circumstances like these shouldn't have been made in the first place.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 21 septembre 2011 - 02:33 .

[Xilizhra]

I don't think it's a mistake, they just didn't quite adequately explain the differences in their reasoning upon returning.

[Xilizhra]

What are you talking about? They all give opinions. Tali and Samara basically say it isn't right. Miranda does the same thing. I don't remember what Jacob says.

I apologize for the ambiguous syntax. I only meant that Legion gives a fact, "This facility is data." It offers its opinion about its use thereafter on the ship.

[Xilizhra]

So long as you in your Reaper-siding-with mind realize that few others will agree with your definition of "right."

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 septembre 2011 - 02:42 .

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So long as you in your Reaper-siding-with mind realize that few others will agree with your definition of "right."

The right path is often the lonely path. Story of my life and all that, ect...

How lucky. I haven't found anyone to agree with my plan of ultimate cultural assimilation either.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

So long as you in your Reaper-siding-with mind realize that few others will agree with your definition of "right."

The right path is often the lonely path. Story of my life and all that, ect...

How lucky. I haven't found anyone to agree with my plan of ultimate cultural assimilation either.

Ladies, please, the destruction of all reality is where it's really at.

Now I'm really going to bed. >_<

[Xilizhra]

Oh, yes, they were wrong about TIM. TIM has the guts to test-run that tech, then cleans up after the Alliance fouls this up, even though his organization is almost destroyed. Then he distributes the data he got from his research across the galaxy via Aria. Now, thanks to him, everybody, starting from the Alliance and ending with the whole galaxy will have access to the data on Reaper tech. And Cerberus, as usual, are the only ones who paid the price. Everybody will be working with that data, and some faction will find a way to use it against the Reapers to give us an edge in this impossible war.

And TIM openly celebrates that finally someone other than Cerberus will start doing something about the Reapers. He's a big damn hero who does the galaxy's dirty job despite their best efforts to stop him from saving them. Even though they're trying to destroy him and condemn him all the while.

And let's not forget that the Alliance now has the avatar's corpse, which they dragged to the Council and threw it at their feet as a proof of Reaper existence - they wouldn't even have it if not for Cerberus in the first place! And as a reward for TIM's hard job well done, the Council asks Anderson to destroy Cerberus. Otherwise, they refuse to believe in Reapers.



Oh yeah, they were pretty damn wrong about everything. If TIM didn't get the tech, the galaxy wouldn't been destroyed. That's why the devs took away that choice. TIM saves the galaxy despite base-destroying Shepard's best efforts to thwart him!

Someone who isn't Laecraft, does this actually happen in Retribution? I have my doubts, personally.

They offered no valuable input, just their fears and suspicions, and vague suppositions. Plus, the teammates can't seem to make up their minds on the subject. They're constantly reconsidering. Tomorrow TIM saves the galaxy, and they'd reconsider again. They're waning and waxing like a burning moon, swayed constantly by the lightest breeze. And blinded by their prejudges. That's why I'm in charge.

You who considered letting everyone in the galaxy die because they didn't sufficiently praise you? A hero for the ages, you are.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Someone who isn't Laecraft, does this actually happen in Retribution? I have my doubts, personally.

She's right, it all checks out.

Also, no reason to not get the novels yourself, they're quite a decent read.

[Xilizhra]

If the game isn't fun, I don't give a damn about saving the galaxy. I'm not a glutton for punishment. I don't enjoy the constant feelings of disappointment and frustration. Let someone else's avatar do the job - I'm not stuck in that universe, I can opt out. Or do you truly believe that people play the game to save the galaxy, and not to have fun?

Well, you've pushed away your squadmates, you refuse to reconnect with anyone who distrusted you over the Cerberus thing, you consider humanity unworthy because they're arresting you for killing a whole star system... it seems kinda self-imposed.

Would you still enjoy the game if it involved shooting the Allaince? Would you be looking forward to it just as much if it didn't involve killing Cerberus? Don't be such a hypocrite. We're all here to have fun. For anything else, I look to RL.

If the Alliance was subverted by the Reapers? Sure. My Shepard would hate it, but I wouldn't mind playing it. And before you ask about asari, I've racked up a sizable Eclipse body count, as well as all of Benezia's commandos.

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Which is most of them. Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Samara/Morinth, Thane, Tali, and Kasumi, and Legion doesn't give an opinion so much as a fact. The opinion comes later. Only Mordin, Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed change their minds, and I don't know if Zaeed even says anything, so it might just be Mordin/Garrus/Grunt.
I also find it interesting that both Cerberus squadmates think it's a bad idea.

What are you talking about? They all give opinions. Tali and Samara basically say it isn't right. Miranda does the same thing. I don't remember what Jacob says.

Garrus, Legion, Mordin, and Zaeed all support keeping the base. Then later each of them save for Zaeed seem to go back on it. Zaeed has no post SM commentary.

Grunt favors keeping it too.

Garrus: I don't know, Shepard. What happened here was horrible, but we have to stop the Reapers. If we destroy this base, then all these people died for nothing.
Grunt: He's right. When your enemy gives you a weapon, you use it. You might not get another chance.
Jack: Seriously? Shepard, he's a user - just like Collectors.
Jacob: It's better because we'll do it? Shepard, this is way over the line.
Kasumi: Shep, he's talking about doing it all again. How will that help anything?
Legion: Shepard-Commander, this facility is data. It has no inherent ethical value. Destroying it will not return those lost. Keeping it may save others.
Miranda: I'm not so sure. Seeing it first hand - using anything from this base seems like a betrayal.
Mordin: Hmm... Agreed. Collector base horrific. Vile experiments, but should use what's here. Risks galaxy to ignore opportunity.
Samara: You have not really defeated the enemy if you adopt their methods.
Tali: Shepard, we fought to stop it. Us using it doesn't make it right.
Thane: Shepard/Siha, I've made a life of killing those who deserve to die. We must struggle to not become what we hate.
Zaeed: Someone gives you a weapon, you don't complain that it's dirty - you use it.

Only my boy Zaeed don't have a mind crush and changes his view within 5 minutes, even if it's because he doesn't say anything.

Modifié par Seboist, 21 septembre 2011 - 06:16 .