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Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread


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#1201
Killjoy Cutter

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Seboist wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Troll.


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Pointing out that someone is a troll somehow makes you a troll?  WTH? 

Talking about Cerberus as judge, jury, and executioner, supporting Cerberus in spite of everything we've seen, in spite of the fact that they're one of the main antogonists of ME3...  you're either a troll, or a fool.

#1202
MisterJB

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Barquiel wrote...
enslavement of rachni and geth

When the experiments on the Racnhi were performed, they were believed to be little more than animals who had almost destroyed the entire galacy once and the Geth started a war without any provocation from humanity.

And I think human dominance is undesirable.

How do you justify this point of view? I'm not saying that humanity should enslave the other races but I don't understand how someone could be against replacing the current alien dominance with one that is more favorable to our race.

#1203
Xilizhra

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How do you justify this point of view? I'm not saying that humanity should enslave the other races but I don't understand how someone could be against replacing the current alien dominance with one that is more favorable to our race.

I would prefer to replace it with something where no one was strictly dominant.

When the experiments on the Racnhi were performed, they were believed to be little more than animals who had almost destroyed the entire galacy once and the Geth started a war without any provocation from humanity.

Then Cerberus is one of the most idiotic organizations in existence. The rachni were a spacefaring race that waged war against the Citadel for many years, and Cerberus thought they were just animals? What?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:01 .


#1204
Sebby

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Pointing out that someone is a troll somehow makes you a troll?  WTH? 

Talking about Cerberus as judge, jury, and executioner, supporting Cerberus in spite of everything we've seen, in spite of the fact that they're one of the main antogonists of ME3...  you're either a troll, or a fool.


Ah yes, supporting a faction you don't support makes one a "troll", nuh uh. Whatever you say Mr. Troll.

#1205
Sebby

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Xilizhra wrote...

How do you justify this point of view? I'm not saying that humanity should enslave the other races but I don't understand how someone could be against replacing the current alien dominance with one that is more favorable to our race.

I would prefer to replace it with something where no one was strictly dominant.

When the experiments on the Racnhi were performed, they were believed to be little more than animals who had almost destroyed the entire galacy once and the Geth started a war without any provocation from humanity.

Then Cerberus is one of the most idiotic organizations in existence. The rachni were a spacefaring race that waged war against the Citadel for many years, and Cerberus thought they were just animals? What?


Rachni workers,soldiers and brood warriors are little more than animals without the control of the Queen.

#1206
Xilizhra

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Rachni workers,soldiers and brood warriors are little more than animals without the control of the Queen.

Except they're not, as Cerberus learned to its sorrow when they took over the Sigma-23 depot and starting stowing away aboard its supply ships.

#1207
Killjoy Cutter

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Seboist wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Pointing out that someone is a troll somehow makes you a troll?  WTH? 

Talking about Cerberus as judge, jury, and executioner, supporting Cerberus in spite of everything we've seen, in spite of the fact that they're one of the main antogonists of ME3...  you're either a troll, or a fool.


Ah yes, supporting a faction you don't support makes one a "troll", nuh uh. Whatever you say Mr. Troll.



No, saying the things that were said in support of Cerberus in the post I originally commented on makes someone a troll, or utterly ignorant of the facts, or a fool. 

#1208
Kaiser Shepard

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Xilizhra wrote...

Most of the other races don't deserve to rise with the rest of us, at the very best they should only be allowed to survive, nothing more.

Everyone equally deserves to rise.

Why?


Killjoy Cutter wrote...

No, saying the things that were said in support of Cerberus in the post I originally commented on makes someone a troll, or utterly ignorant of the facts, or a fool.

Because you'd rather have me be a Council-apologist?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:11 .


#1209
Sebby

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Xilizhra wrote...

Rachni workers,soldiers and brood warriors are little more than animals without the control of the Queen.

Except they're not, as Cerberus learned to its sorrow when they took over the Sigma-23 depot and starting stowing away aboard its supply ships.


Cerberus underestimated their ferocity and it's just chance that they managed to stowaway on automated supply ships. Queenless Rachni have low intelligence as proven by them repeatedly getting slaughtered by going into the killzone that Captian Vetralis' squad were guarding on Noveria.

#1210
MisterJB

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Xilizhra wrote...

I would prefer to replace it with something where no one was strictly dominant.

Sadly, that's not possible.

Then Cerberus is one of the most idiotic organizations in existence. The rachni were a spacefaring race that waged war against the Citadel for many years, and Cerberus thought they were just animals? What?

So far, the only members of the Rachni race who seem to be capable of communicating are the Queens. The Rachni are intelligent but, at that point, all evidence pointed towards them being hostile 100% of the time and little more than animals if they were not in contact with the Queens. Bringing them back was irresponsible in the first place, at least Cerberus tried to stop what could be a danger to the galaxy and use it to benefit humanity.
Granted, it was a mistake. It happens.

#1211
Xilizhra

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Why?

Why not?

Cerberus underestimated their ferocity and it's just chance that they managed to stowaway on automated supply ships. Queenless Rachni have low intelligence as proven by them repeatedly getting slaughtered by going into the killzone that Captian Vetralis' squad were guarding on Noveria.

The doomed Cerberus log-maker on Sigma-23 refers to how smart the rachni were in everything they did, and the rachni had previously sabotaged the turret power generator and were presumably unprepared for Shepard's arrival.

#1212
Killjoy Cutter

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(Side note, Rachni not raised by their elders / a queen are animalistic, according to what the queen tells us at least.)


Cerberus' work on the Rachni wasn't about controlling them or dealing with a threat to the galaxy, it was about investigating a potential weapon, nothing more.  

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:19 .


#1213
MisterJB

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Xilizhra wrote...
The doomed Cerberus log-maker on Sigma-23 refers to how smart the rachni were in everything they did, and the rachni had previously sabotaged the turret power generator and were presumably unprepared for Shepard's arrival.

The logs also say that those particular Rachni were developed in proximity to the master unit (the Queen) so, ultimately different from the ones encountered on Noveria. Without the Queen they are little more than animals.

Modifié par MisterJB, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:21 .


#1214
Xilizhra

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MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
The doomed Cerberus log-maker on Sigma-23 refers to how smart the rachni were in everything they did, and the rachni had previously sabotaged the turret power generator and were presumably unprepared for Shepard's arrival.

The logs also say that those particular Rachni were developed in proximity to the master unit (the Queen) so, ultimately different from the ones encountered on Noveria.

Yes. Cerberus knew that they weren't the mindless/insane ones swarming on Noveria.

#1215
MisterJB

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Xilizhra wrote...
Yes. Cerberus knew that they weren't the mindless/insane ones swarming on Noveria.


Cerberus tought they would be docile. Not intelligent.

#1216
Killjoy Cutter

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MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Yes. Cerberus knew that they weren't the mindless/insane ones swarming on Noveria.


Cerberus tought they would be docile. Not intelligent.


And thus, Cerberus is dumb. 

#1217
Xilizhra

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Yes. Cerberus knew that they weren't the mindless/insane ones swarming on Noveria.


Cerberus tought they would be docile. Not intelligent.


And thus, Cerberus is dumb. 

That cell, at least.

#1218
Kaiser Shepard

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Xilizhra wrote...

Why not?

Because humanity paid for that rise with blood, while the other races merely stood by and looked away.

#1219
Barquiel

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MisterJB wrote...

How do you justify this point of view? I'm not saying that humanity should enslave the other races but I don't understand how someone could be against replacing the current alien dominance with one that is more favorable to our race.


At the moment we have four dominant races in council space. Yes...the council system is not perfect, but far better than domination of one species.

Modifié par Barquiel, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:35 .


#1220
Sebby

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Barquiel wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

How do you justify this point of view? I'm not saying that humanity should enslave the other races but I don't understand how someone could be against replacing the current alien dominance with one that is more favorable to our race.


At the moment we have four dominant races in council space...the council system is not perfect, but far better than domination of one species.


Domination by one species versus three/four would just be business as usual for all the "lesser" species. It would have more of an effect on the three former council species than anyone else.

#1221
Xilizhra

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why not?

Because humanity paid for that rise with blood, while the other races merely stood by and looked away.

Fighting for the dead is meaningless. The living deserve it all equally.

#1222
Kaiser Shepard

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Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why not?

Because humanity paid for that rise with blood, while the other races merely stood by and looked away.

Fighting for the dead is meaningless. The living deserve it all equally.

The dead deserve justice, and those alive aren't all equal.

#1223
Xilizhra

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why not?

Because humanity paid for that rise with blood, while the other races merely stood by and looked away.

Fighting for the dead is meaningless. The living deserve it all equally.

The dead deserve justice, and those alive aren't all equal.

Justice for the dead is a fantasy. They're dead; nothing material is going to help them. And whether or not the living have equal capabilities, they have equally deserved rights.

#1224
Kaiser Shepard

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Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why not?

Because humanity paid for that rise with blood, while the other races merely stood by and looked away.

Fighting for the dead is meaningless. The living deserve it all equally.

The dead deserve justice, and those alive aren't all equal.

Justice for the dead is a fantasy. They're dead; nothing material is going to help them. And whether or not the living have equal capabilities, they have equally deserved rights.

Au contraire, ma cherie, true equality is but a fantasy.

Still, I don't understand how and why you went to "fighting for the dead", when I merely said that the dead are why deserve to rise.

#1225
Xilizhra

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Au contraire, ma cherie, true equality is but a fantasy.

Still, I don't understand how and why you went to "fighting for the dead", when I merely said that the dead are why deserve to rise.

The dead don't mean anything except a possible marker for what could happen in the future, and I don't believe that's sufficient reasoning to keep nonhumans down.