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[Killjoy Cutter]

Bad King wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Akuze happened before Cerberus "went rogue" so of course the Alliance was involved.

Yeah, but some people brush off what Admiral Kahoku said as "unreliable information" and therefore don't think Cerberus was ever a black ops division of the Alliance. 

While it's severely downplayed in ME2 there are some indicators that they were ex-Alliance like Jacob saying "The Illusive Man" was a codename given to Mr.Harper by the Alliance , the LOTSB dossier labeling them "rogue" and EDI saying Cerberus encouraged the Alliance to co-develop the Normandy with the Turians.

I would like to say that the Anderson dossier saying he dowloaded a video called "The Path of Lies: A History of the Alliance Military" is another indicator but it's too vague.

I always interpreted that part of Anderson's dossier as referring more to his disillusionment with the Alliance after they (in Ken Donnelly's words) "backslid on the reaper menace", but it could be anything.

I do agree though that there are more hints other than Kahoku's testimony pointing to Cerberus being an Alliance black-ops organisation that went rogue. For example Dr. Wayne was an Alliance scientist, and Hackett states that the Alliance has a record of the project on Akuze (the dates and the scientists involved) although what went on appeared to be classified. Another detail is that TIM founded Cerberus on Arcturus station- this could be nothing (Harper could easily have been doing this behind the Alliance's back) but it still comes across as somewhat suspicious.

The original Cerberus cell founded by Harper could have been made up of Alliance personel, or Cerberus could have infiltrated Alliance operations. 

[Bad King]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Bad King wrote...

I always interpreted that part of Anderson's dossier as referring more to his disillusionment with the Alliance after they (in Ken Donnelly's words) "backslid on the reaper menace", but it could be anything.

I do agree though that there are more hints other than Kahoku's testimony pointing to Cerberus being an Alliance black-ops organisation that went rogue. For example Dr. Wayne was an Alliance scientist, and Hackett states that the Alliance has a record of the project on Akuze (the dates and the scientists involved) although what went on appeared to be classified. Another detail is that TIM founded Cerberus on Arcturus station- this could be nothing (Harper could easily have been doing this behind the Alliance's back) but it still comes across as somewhat suspicious.

The original Cerberus cell founded by Harper could have been made up of Alliance personel, or Cerberus could have infiltrated Alliance operations. 

Perhaps, but that doesn't explain why the Alliance has records of Cerberus experiments.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Bad King wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Bad King wrote...

I always interpreted that part of Anderson's dossier as referring more to his disillusionment with the Alliance after they (in Ken Donnelly's words) "backslid on the reaper menace", but it could be anything.

I do agree though that there are more hints other than Kahoku's testimony pointing to Cerberus being an Alliance black-ops organisation that went rogue. For example Dr. Wayne was an Alliance scientist, and Hackett states that the Alliance has a record of the project on Akuze (the dates and the scientists involved) although what went on appeared to be classified. Another detail is that TIM founded Cerberus on Arcturus station- this could be nothing (Harper could easily have been doing this behind the Alliance's back) but it still comes across as somewhat suspicious.

The original Cerberus cell founded by Harper could have been made up of Alliance personel, or Cerberus could have infiltrated Alliance operations. 

Perhaps, but that doesn't explain why the Alliance has records of Cerberus experiments.

"Alliance operations on Akuze" and "secret Cerberus experiments involving thresher maws" doesn't necessarily add up to "Cerberus-run operations on Akuze".   That's where the infilitration part comes in. 

Survivors from Teltin infiltrating Ascension doesn't make Ascension a Cerberus operation, as another example.

[Bad King]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Bad King wrote...

I always interpreted that part of Anderson's dossier as referring more to his disillusionment with the Alliance after they (in Ken Donnelly's words) "backslid on the reaper menace", but it could be anything.

I do agree though that there are more hints other than Kahoku's testimony pointing to Cerberus being an Alliance black-ops organisation that went rogue. For example Dr. Wayne was an Alliance scientist, and Hackett states that the Alliance has a record of the project on Akuze (the dates and the scientists involved) although what went on appeared to be classified. Another detail is that TIM founded Cerberus on Arcturus station- this could be nothing (Harper could easily have been doing this behind the Alliance's back) but it still comes across as somewhat suspicious.

The original Cerberus cell founded by Harper could have been made up of Alliance personel, or Cerberus could have infiltrated Alliance operations. 

Perhaps, but that doesn't explain why the Alliance has records of Cerberus experiments.

"Alliance operations on Akuze" and "secret Cerberus experiments involving thresher maws" doesn't necessarily add up to "Cerberus-run operations on Akuze".   That's where the infilitration part comes in. 

Survivors from Teltin infiltrating Ascension doesn't make Ascension a Cerberus operation, as another example.

The problem is every scientist working on the project happened to be a Cerberus scientist. In the Ascension example, Cerberus infiltrators made up only a very small percentage of the personnel working on the project. A research project organised by the Alliance made up entirely of Cerberus personnel seems too fishy for it just to be an Alliance project that was infiltrated.

[Sebby]

gmod render of a younger looking version of the man himself.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Nice, did you make that one yourself?

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Nice, did you make that one yourself?

I wish, this guy did.

[Dean_the_Young]

Barquiel wrote...

I think we know enough. Cerberus' experiments give us some ideas....

- chemical weapons against the asari

When did Cerberus do that?

Only Asari-related experiment that comes to mind is the biotic suppression drug, which works on all biotic users. It isn't even a chemical weapon, but a medical injection. It had

- enslavement of rachni and geth

You can't enslave what is thought to be an uninteligent species. The proper term for animals is domestication, and when Cerberus realized the Rachni drones were not animals, they stopped. You really should be more upset over Varren wardogs.

Calling Overlord 'enslavement' is twisting the word beyond all meaning, since we know how Overlord works and it's by appealing to religious inclinations. It's an apeal to zealotry, not a forced compliance.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 28 septembre 2011 - 11:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Bad King wrote...

The problem is every scientist working on the project happened to be a Cerberus scientist.

Says who? The only thing we know about the other scientists on the Akuze project is that they were dead by the time we met Toombs. Nothing was said about if they were Cerberus scientists, Alliance scientists cooperating with Cerberus, or anything else about their alignment.

[Valdrane78]

Here is my theory...

TIM is slowly but surely becoming indoctrinated, the only way he knows to stop it is to find out as much as possible about the Reapers and the process by which indoctrination happens, before he completely looses his free will.

It explains why he brought Shepard back and why he went to such lengths to save the CB, and put ou rShep in such dire situations. It also explains why he leaked the story of Shep working for Cerberus, he needed Shep alone and without the aid of both the Alliance and the Council. As well as all the resources he put into watching the effects of indoctrination and actually allowing someone to become fully indoctrinated.

As ME3 rolls around, we can see TIM's loosing more and more of his free will before becoming fully indoctrinated.

All of this is supported by the lengths to which TIM goes and how he justifies how he meets his goal. If you had that much power, wouldn't you do everything you could with it to keep your free will and not become just another tool.

[Labrev]

Seboist wrote...

Because of TIM SS Shepard was able to become a Spectre without accomplishing anything of note like War Hero and Ruthless Shepard did.

TIM deserves a debt of grattitude for that.

It's true though. What impressive ability did Shepard display on Akuze that showed exceptional talent... run? War Hero also survives against impossible odds while showing that he can fight. Ruthless does it by being a successful leader.

Even Hackett remarks at how reatively unimpressive it is in the intro to ME1 if you select that service history.

And the real kick in the nuts is, you're not even the Sole Survivor. There was Toombs as well.

[Sebby]

Yeah, Sole Survivor is weaksauce. It's like making someone a Captain for surviving a shipwreck.

[Dave of Canada]

Sole Survivor is pretty good at mental issues.

[HiroVoid]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, Sole Survivor is weaksauce. It's like making someone a Captain for surviving a shipwreck.

Meh.  I pretty much consider 'Sole Survivor' basically doing the final part of Grunt's loyalty mission except longer and with more thresher maws.

[Xilizhra]

And when you finally prepare to shoot TIM in the inevitable final boss fight scene, remember that if not for TIM, you wouldn't even be able to hold that gun. You wouldn't even get that far. If not for TIM, you'd just stay dead, killed by the Reaper whom many of you don't take seriously, your genetic material used to fuel the new Reaper creation, and the galaxy would've been destroyed.

Noted. He served a purpose once. Not anymore.

[Labrev]

Xilizhra wrote...

And when you finally prepare to shoot TIM in the inevitable final boss fight scene, remember that if not for TIM, you wouldn't even be able to hold that gun. You wouldn't even get that far. If not for TIM, you'd just stay dead, killed by the Reaper whom many of you don't take seriously, your genetic material used to fuel the new Reaper creation, and the galaxy would've been destroyed.

Noted. He served a purpose once. Not anymore.

I tend to hate the "he saved you, you owe him" argument. Probably the nihilist in me, but I think I'd rather be asleep.

And he brought me back so I could save his ass, really. Sorry, I don't actually give a damn about the galaxy or what they do to my body when I'm dead.

[marshalleck]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And when you finally prepare to shoot TIM in the inevitable final boss fight scene, remember that if not for TIM, you wouldn't even be able to hold that gun. You wouldn't even get that far. If not for TIM, you'd just stay dead, killed by the Reaper whom many of you don't take seriously, your genetic material used to fuel the new Reaper creation, and the galaxy would've been destroyed.

Noted. He served a purpose once. Not anymore.

I tend to hate the "he saved you, you owe him" argument. Probably the nihilist in me, but I think I'd rather be asleep.

And he brought me back so I could save his ass, really. Sorry, I don't actually give a damn about the galaxy or what they do to my body when I'm dead.

Well then. It's a good thing people with no spine rarely rise to positions of importance. 

[Labrev]

marshalleck wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And when you finally prepare to shoot TIM in the inevitable final boss fight scene, remember that if not for TIM, you wouldn't even be able to hold that gun. You wouldn't even get that far. If not for TIM, you'd just stay dead, killed by the Reaper whom many of you don't take seriously, your genetic material used to fuel the new Reaper creation, and the galaxy would've been destroyed.

Noted. He served a purpose once. Not anymore.

I tend to hate the "he saved you, you owe him" argument. Probably the nihilist in me, but I think I'd rather be asleep.

And he brought me back so I could save his ass, really. Sorry, I don't actually give a damn about the galaxy or what they do to my body when I'm dead.

Well then. It's a good thing people with no spine rarely rise to positions of importance. 

Life is crap. I suggest you learn that sooner rather than later.


As for me, I will most assuredly be very important as a future rockstar.

[Sebby]

Hah Yes Reapers needs to lay off the red sand ASAP.

[Labrev]

 Blame my philosophy class.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

 Blame my philosophy class.

Oooh, he's taken a philosophy class.

Watch out, people. This guy is serious. He's all philosophical and ****.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

 Blame my philosophy class.

Oooh, he's taken a philosophy class.

Watch out, people. This guy is serious. He's all philosophical and ****.

This post just made my day, reminded me of the ThePwener incident three or so weeks ago.

[Xilizhra]

Was he attempting to actually make a serious point?