6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

A state of affairs I intend to fix, if possible.

Not really. You're pretty well established as securing and strengthening the galactic racial caste system, and repeatedly opposed to weakening it because doing so hurts the greater number by making them lose their privilages without elevating an equal number to the same level.

No agreeable way of weakening it as been presented in-game yet. I have no issue with doing so, but simply making humans the sole power is no way to go.

It is the only way to go to break up the established power structure without genocide, and the only one with any impetus to reform (because Humans can't rule the galaxy alone, and have included the concerns of other species).

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

You can be a human nationalist without being a racist. It only gets mixed up in the ME universe because many species are united in one nation. Multi-species interstellar "nations" don't exist.

A state of affairs I intend to fix, if possible.

While I commend your consistency on the point, it is extremely unlikely to be able to create an integrated multi-species nation because there will always be major biological boundries that are insurmountable. Not to mention that your stated means of achieving your goal would not result in a multi-species culture, but rather, an Asari dominated one.

I think a more accurate term is Thessian culture, as that's where it originated, but any species can join in. And ultimately it'd only be dominant there because it's the most egalitarian by species and promotes harmony. Giving, say, Tuchankan culture an equally large role would be problematic, as you can imagine.

Thessian culture is dominated by the Matriarchs, because only they have the age AND experience AND 'wisdom' to weild the real influence. It's an oligarchy any can submit to, but that goes for every ideology: aliens can adopt human culture as well. At least the Turian Heirarchy is genuinely meritocratic.

[Xilizhra]

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

Thessian culture is dominated by the Matriarchs, because only they have the age AND experience AND 'wisdom' to weild the real influence. It's an oligarchy any can submit to, but that goes for every ideology: aliens can adopt human culture as well. At least the Turian Heirarchy is genuinely meritocratic.

Well, there's the interesting thing; my plan doesn't just stop at one culture. I hope to adapt the best traits of other cultures that I can. Although perhaps not personally; it's more a hope.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

You don't have to kill anyone, and it's hardly a dictatorship with the other species still on the Council.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

You don't have to kill anyone, and it's hardly a dictatorship with the other species still on the Council.

I'm not going to let the Destiny Ascension die when I don't have to.

[SandTrout]

Xilizhra wrote...

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

That would actually make for one of the most bloodless major shifts of power in history, also, the result is neither monospecies nor a dictatorship. A dictatorship implies that a single person (a dictator) has ultimate authority, which is not true, and simply because humans have taken the lead in the Council doesn't mean that the other members have been removed from it.

[Xilizhra]

SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

That would actually make for one of the most bloodless major shifts of power in history, also, the result is neither monospecies nor a dictatorship. A dictatorship implies that a single person (a dictator) has ultimate authority, which is not true, and simply because humans have taken the lead in the Council doesn't mean that the other members have been removed from it.

The power shift, aside from the deaths, is too much and at the wrong time. It causes too much discord, which leads to more deaths, as we can see with the race riot stuff, and damages humanity's public opinion. For instance, if the Council was saved, Joram Talid sounds like a worthless blowhard, but if it was killed, he mixes in some uncomfortably clear points in with the speciesism.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

You don't have to kill anyone, and it's hardly a dictatorship with the other species still on the Council.

I'm not going to let the Destiny Ascension die when I don't have to.

So you're gonna send innocent men and women to their deaths for no good reason?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 07 octobre 2011 - 06:56 .

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

You don't have to kill anyone, and it's hardly a dictatorship with the other species still on the Council.

I'm not going to let the Destiny Ascension die when I don't have to.

So you're gonna send innocent men and women to their deaths for no good reason?

Taking into account non-metagaming information, I have a net gain of 7600 lives. Plus those who would otherwise die in race riots on the Citadel and suchlike. So I think it's a rather good reason.

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If you demand a perfect solution, you'll never get a change. That is why you are a reactionary and not a progressive: you may be a well meaning reactionary, but you oppose any meaninful steps to shake up the status quo.

By killing ten thousand people and bringing in a monospecies dictatorship? Sue me.

You don't have to kill anyone, and it's hardly a dictatorship with the other species still on the Council.

I'm not going to let the Destiny Ascension die when I don't have to.

So you're gonna send innocent men and women to their deaths for no good reason?

Taking into account non-metagaming information, I have a net gain of 7600 lives. Plus those who would otherwise die in race riots on the Citadel and suchlike. So I think it's a rather good reason.

Yikes!  Weighing out people's lives as though they were nothing more than vegetables at the market.  And they say TIM is cold!

I kid!  I kid!  But not really.  Well kinda not.  Only sorta. 

But I honestly got the distinct impression from the opening scene of ME2 that TIM was far from displeased by the decision to save the Destiny Ascension.  Maybe it says something about him that he looks for advantage in any situation, but it also leads me to at least question what his political goals really are.

[Xilizhra]

Yikes! Weighing out people's lives as though they were nothing more than vegetables at the market. And they say TIM is cold!

I kid! I kid! But not really. Well kinda not. Only sorta.

Well, I could get to know them all and see which ones would contribute to the world more, but I don't have time.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yikes! Weighing out people's lives as though they were nothing more than vegetables at the market. And they say TIM is cold!

I kid! I kid! But not really. Well kinda not. Only sorta.

Well, I could get to know them all and see which ones would contribute to the world more, but I don't have time.

One group is supposedly responsible for half of the known galaxy but allowed the whole "Saren and the geth" situation to escalate into what we see at the Siege on the Citadel, whereas the other has no problem getting their act together in order to save the entire galaxy.

Obviously the latter group is more valuable.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:34 .

[Dave of Canada]

I don't think The Illusive Man cares much how he empowers humanity, he just seeks to do so.

Whether that's empowering humanity before they're invaded by aliens or because they're best buddies with them, I doubt it would matter.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yikes! Weighing out people's lives as though they were nothing more than vegetables at the market. And they say TIM is cold!

I kid! I kid! But not really. Well kinda not. Only sorta.

Well, I could get to know them all and see which ones would contribute to the world more, but I don't have time.

One group is supposedly responsible for half of the known galaxy but allowed the whole "Saren and the geth" situation to escalate into what we see at the Siege on the Citadel, whereas the other has no problem getting their act together in order to save the entire galaxy.

Obviously the latter group is more valuable.

Except the vast majority of those involved are simply crew and have no power to make decisions on the matter either way.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Yikes! Weighing out people's lives as though they were nothing more than vegetables at the market. And they say TIM is cold!

I kid! I kid! But not really. Well kinda not. Only sorta.

Well, I could get to know them all and see which ones would contribute to the world more, but I don't have time.

One group is supposedly responsible for half of the known galaxy but allowed the whole "Saren and the geth" situation to escalate into what we see at the Siege on the Citadel, whereas the other has no problem getting their act together in order to save the entire galaxy.

Obviously the latter group is more valuable.

Except the vast majority of those involved are simply crew and have no power to make decisions on the matter either way.

In which case they have outlived their usefulness by failing their duties, still leaving the latter group as the more valuable one.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:55 .

[Xilizhra]

In which case they have outlived their usefulness in failing their duties, still leaving the latter group as the more valuable one.

By those standards, everyone who dies in battle in the Alliance has failed their duties as well. And it really doesn't matter because I'm more concerned with saving life in general.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

In which case they have outlived their usefulness in failing their duties, still leaving the latter group as the more valuable one.

By those standards, everyone who dies in battle in the Alliance has failed their duties as well. And it really doesn't matter because I'm more concerned with saving life in general.

A scenario in which focusing on Sovereign would be the more logical decision.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In which case they have outlived their usefulness in failing their duties, still leaving the latter group as the more valuable one.

By those standards, everyone who dies in battle in the Alliance has failed their duties as well. And it really doesn't matter because I'm more concerned with saving life in general.

A scenario in which focusing on Sovereign would be the more logical decision.

Evidently not.

[Kaiser Shepard]

I have no idea how warped your way of thinking must be for those three incompetent fools and their only somewhat more competent entourage to take precedence over all life.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I have no idea how warped your way of thinking must be for those three incompetent fools and their only somewhat more competent entourage to take precedence over all life.

Because they don't. Sovereign's plan was already doomed after Saren killed himself and I overrode his changes. That's why it needed to possess Saren to kill me, otherwise it couldn't reopen anything.

[Sebby]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't think The Illusive Man cares much how he empowers humanity, he just seeks to do so.

Whether that's empowering humanity before they're invaded by aliens or because they're best buddies with them, I doubt it would matter.

Yep, that's why TIM brofisted my Pro-Cerberus Talimancer for winning over a Quarian Admiral's daughter to the cause with his magic penis and is receptive to his idea of securing a long-term Quarian-Human alliance by helping them retake their homeworld by combining Project Overlord and Rael Zorah's work.

Then there's my canon femshep who he gave a pat on the ass as a sign of approving her grand scheme to take down the three council races with a human-led coalition of Krogan,Vorcha,Geth,Quarian and Rachni.

[Barquiel]

Seboist wrote...

Then there's my canon femshep who he gave a pat on the ass as a sign of approving her grand scheme to take down the three council races with a human-led coalition of Krogan,Vorcha,Geth,Quarian and Rachni.

It is far more likely that he's laughing at you behind your back.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I have no idea how warped your way of thinking must be for those three incompetent fools and their only somewhat more competent entourage to take precedence over all life.

Because they don't. Sovereign's plan was already doomed after Saren killed himself and I overrode his changes. That's why it needed to possess Saren to kill me, otherwise it couldn't reopen anything.

You can't assume that to be the case, and even if it were, the old order has still proven its lack of worth.

[Sebby]

Barquiel wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Then there's my canon femshep who he gave a pat on the ass as a sign of approving her grand scheme to take down the three council races with a human-led coalition of Krogan,Vorcha,Geth,Quarian and Rachni.

It is far more likely that he's laughing at you behind your back.

Bull****, he knows the brilliance of a humancentric Saren 2.0 when he sees it.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I have no idea how warped your way of thinking must be for those three incompetent fools and their only somewhat more competent entourage to take precedence over all life.

Because they don't. Sovereign's plan was already doomed after Saren killed himself and I overrode his changes. That's why it needed to possess Saren to kill me, otherwise it couldn't reopen anything.

You can't assume that to be the case, and even if it were, the old order has still proven its lack of worth.

Well, I did. And what do you know, it was the truth.