6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Labrev]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

By those standards, everyone who dies in battle in the Alliance has failed their duties as well. And it really doesn't matter because I'm more concerned with saving life in general.

A scenario in which focusing on Sovereign would be the more logical decision.

Not sure why everyone seems to think this. Sovereign was basically a sitting duck at the time you're asked to make the call to save/abandon the DA.

Only issue at hand, to me, was whether or not you want to sacrifice human lives for the council and 'Ascention. Which, to me, is perfectly justified. The military's job is to protect civilians IMO. If you would rather promote humanity, fine, but neither is imparative IMO.

It's like how people choose to go back to the bomb site on Virmire because they think the bomb has to be protected. It's a non-issue. Overthinking.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Sacrificing the council at the BotC by letting the Destiny Ascension get destroyed I felt at the time would accomplish nothing. It would have been opportunisitic to use it to seize the bulk of power from the other races, and I felt result in a weaker stand against what was coming. The council, yes, are a bunch of mealy mouthed politicians, but would a human council be any better? No, it would not. Human standards of governance on earth don't seem to meet a very high standard to begin with, and are not that familiar with intragalactic trade and running an intragalactic power. It wouldn't last. And there is no way humanity could stand against the reapers alone. It would have been a bad choice.

I thought about the 10,000 crew on the DA. That was more than enough to give aid to an ally. The 3 council members were the least of it.

[Aeowyn]

They retconned the number of crew on the DA from 5,000 to 10,000 just to make sure that those who saved the Council felt good about themselves and those who didn't would feel more guilty.
Additionally, I think that decision should've had consequences. Make sure that those who saved the DA would lose more Alliance men, a whole lot more, than those who went straight to Sovereign.

[Xilizhra]

Aeowyn wrote...

They retconned the number of crew on the DA from 5,000 to 10,000 just to make sure that those who saved the Council felt good about themselves and those who didn't would feel more guilty.
Additionally, I think that decision should've had consequences. Make sure that those who saved the DA would lose more Alliance men, a whole lot more, than those who went straight to Sovereign.

Er, why? Joker wouldn't have been so enthusiastic about the possibility of saving the Ascension if the odds were that poor, and Admiral Hackett probably wouldn't have gone along with it either. And the geth ships were more numerous than formidable; they were only beating the DA because Sovereign destroyed its escort and it couldn't use all of its weapons against the smaller geth ships.

[Sebby]

Aeowyn wrote...

They retconned the number of crew on the DA from 5,000 to 10,000 just to make sure that those who saved the Council felt good about themselves and those who didn't would feel more guilty.
Additionally, I think that decision should've had consequences. Make sure that those who saved the DA would lose more Alliance men, a whole lot more, than those who went straight to Sovereign.

If that was their intention then they failed miserably with me. I wouldn't have given a damn if it had 10 million people on it.

[Xilizhra]

First, the Reapers are coming

Yes, and TIM is the one stroking them to climax.

Also, laecraft, what would you do if the Council, in fact, did send as much help as they could to Earth in ME3?

[Sebby]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

By those standards, everyone who dies in battle in the Alliance has failed their duties as well. And it really doesn't matter because I'm more concerned with saving life in general.

A scenario in which focusing on Sovereign would be the more logical decision.

Not sure why everyone seems to think this. Sovereign was basically a sitting duck at the time you're asked to make the call to save/abandon the DA.

Only issue at hand, to me, was whether or not you want to sacrifice human lives for the council and 'Ascention. Which, to me, is perfectly justified. The military's job is to protect civilians IMO. If you would rather promote humanity, fine, but neither is imparative IMO.

It's like how people choose to go back to the bomb site on Virmire because they think the bomb has to be protected. It's a non-issue. Overthinking.

Vigil's data only gives temporary control of the station away from Sovereign. Shepard doesn't have all the time in the world to be fiddling around while it's trying it's best to unleash Armaggedon.

[Xilizhra]

Vigil's data only gives temporary control of the station away from Sovereign. Shepard doesn't have all the time in the world to be fiddling around while it's trying it's best to unleash Armaggedon.

Actually, she does.

[Xilizhra]

I suppose it's a powerful political statement if you save it, but clearly it's not powerful enough for the Council to return the favour and go out of their way to save human colonies. If they didn't offer any help during the time of relative peace, when their own homeworlds were not threatened, then it's highly unlikely they're going to send rescue fleet to the Earth just because you saved one of their dreadnoughts once. There's no comparison between their entire nations and a single ship. They aren't going to return the favour to Shepard and sacrifice their own people to help humanity, that much is clear by now.

They sent the STG out. The public statement was just to induce the Terminus governments to not go crazy. Also, they had a Spectre doing it: me.

Also, I reiterate my previous question to you, laecraft.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:24 .

[Xilizhra]

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, laecraft, what would you do if the Council, in fact, did send as much help as they could to Earth in ME3?

I would be...pleasantly astonished.

Also, should that happen, my suspension of disbelief would take a huge blow.

Because I recall you saying that you didn't, in fact, want that to happen in ME3, in that "things you hope characters don't do" thread. Basically, you wanted the Council to be as unhelpful as sentiently possible.

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

Because I recall you saying that you didn't, in fact, want that to happen in ME3, in that "things you hope characters don't do" thread. Basically, you wanted the Council to be as unhelpful as sentiently possible.

Well... in all fairness, they do kinda trend in that direction.

Modifié par General User, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:33 .

[Xilizhra]

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, laecraft, what would you do if the Council, in fact, did send as much help as they could to Earth in ME3?

I would be...pleasantly astonished.

Also, should that happen, my suspension of disbelief would take a huge blow.

Because I recall you saying that you didn't, in fact, want that to happen in ME3, in that "things you hope characters don't do" thread. Basically, you wanted the Council to be as unhelpful as sentiently possible.

Yeah, I believe it would make for better drama if they're unhelpful, and especially for my Shepard who still holds some hope. It would make him realize the unpleasant truth and slip into a full Renegade. Cue character development.

I did save DA, in hopes that the Council would return the favour and sacrifice their people - or laws - or anything at all to help humanity. I won't do the same mistake again.

I should say that it's my Shepard who would be glad for it to happen (if very surprised). I would not be very glad, because it would be inconsistent with how the Council was previously established - selfish and unhelpful.

I personally think they were only being outwardly unhelpful in ME2 because, well, Shepard's with Cerberus. They don't want to give away any of their defense plans, and they don't want to let a possible spy in on anything at all.

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, laecraft, what would you do if the Council, in fact, did send as much help as they could to Earth in ME3?

I would be...pleasantly astonished.

Also, should that happen, my suspension of disbelief would take a huge blow.

Because I recall you saying that you didn't, in fact, want that to happen in ME3, in that "things you hope characters don't do" thread. Basically, you wanted the Council to be as unhelpful as sentiently possible.

Yeah, I believe it would make for better drama if they're unhelpful, and especially for my Shepard who still holds some hope. It would make him realize the unpleasant truth and slip into a full Renegade. Cue character development.

I did save DA, in hopes that the Council would return the favour and sacrifice their people - or laws - or anything at all to help humanity. I won't do the same mistake again.

I should say that it's my Shepard who would be glad for it to happen (if very surprised). I would not be very glad, because it would be inconsistent with how the Council was previously established - selfish and unhelpful.

I personally think they were only being outwardly unhelpful in ME2 because, well, Shepard's with Cerberus. They don't want to give away any of their defense plans, and they don't want to let a possible spy in on anything at all.

I never expected the Council to give me a fleet in ME2, I was working with Cerberus, in the Terminus Systems no less.

If I were the Council, I would have given Shepard a few more Spectres (they are supposed to occasionally work in small groups afterall).  That way if Shepard was telling the truth I'd be helping and I'd have a heads up, and if Shepard really wasn't on the up and up well, I'd have a heads up on that too.

The Council was actually sooooooo unhelpful, they were even unhelpful to themselves!

Modifié par General User, 08 octobre 2011 - 12:49 .

[Xilizhra]

Eh well. To my Shepard, it doesn't matter what the Council does. It doesn't matter what the Alliance does, it doesn't matter what Cerberus does. She'll do her best for both humanity and the galaxy as a whole, just like always, and won't play favorites based on past actions.

[General User]

In one of my favorite things I've ever read on these forums, in the "What would you say to the Council thread",:

CrazyCatDude wrote...
Now? Now you want my help? Fine. I'll help you. I'll help you because its my job. I'll help you because it will save the lives of people who don't deserve to die for your arrogance. But mostly, I'll help you because it's the right thing to do. But when this is over, I'm going to tell everyone that I warned you, that you had three years to prepare, and that you did nothing. And when they come, howling for your blood, I'm going to do exactly what you did. Nothing.

I don't particularly hold a grudge against the Council either, but they have thoroughly and consistently made the wrong decisions (sometimes with the best motives, sometimes with the worst).  And the day will come when they will be called to account for those decisions.  And, as much as I might stand with them in the meantime, I will not stand with them on that day.

[Xilizhra]

I don't particularly hold a grudge against the Council either, but they have thoroughly and consistently made the wrong decisions (sometimes with the best motives, sometimes with the worst). And the day will come when they will be called to account for those decisions. And, as much as I might stand with them in the meantime, I will not stand with them on that day.

I don't know what the circumstances of that might be, but I think that I would stand with them. Or at least not oppose them.

[General User]

That is the loyalty of a woman who deserves better masters to serve.

Modifié par General User, 08 octobre 2011 - 01:15 .

[Xilizhra]

General User wrote...

That is the loyalty of a woman who deserves better masters to serve.

All in all, I respect the Council in a way because they don't have much in the way of secrets. Their worst actions of the past are pretty much held up to the public eye. The Alliance has dark corners that I haven't investigated enough for me to still trust them (most blatantly whatever Keiji got his hands on), and Cerberus is one giant dark secret.