6970 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

Xilizhra wrote...

Would you consider sensory or physical deprivation to be torture?

I'm not familiar with the expression 'physical deprivation" unless you mean things like starvation and whatnot. Those I would consider torture because they do result in pain, and that pain is speficially aiding the desired result.

As for sensory deprivation, no, I would not consider that torture, nor would I consider the threatening a loved-one as torture. Pulling fingernails from a loved one in front of the person being questioned: yes.

[Xilizhra]

Then this probably won't go anywhere because our definitions of torture are fundamentally different.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

By gambling it.

The number of supposed gambles really starts to add up after a while.

Professional gamblers do exist. Some of them get quite rich.

Torture isn't torture when torture isn't the point of an experience. Torture is a method to achieve something else. If I cause you severe pain in the pursuit of extracting intelligence from you, that would be torture. If I cause you sever pain in the process of saving your life, that is not.

Your analogy sucks; in it, your "cause great pain to save someone's life" example is a net benefit for the subject, whereas everything I mentioned isn't.

Potential war advantages aren't net-benefits?

And Cerberus was, in fact, trying to extract intelligence from those they were torturing, just physical knowledge instead of mental.

No Xilhara, that isn't what intelligence is.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Then this probably won't go anywhere because our definitions of torture are fundamentally different.

Fix that, why don't you?

[Sebby]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Paragon Shepard can get the Krogan's support despite freeing the Rachni and backing the council that they have serious grievances with. How wonderfully convenient all these decisions exist in their own little bubbles and have no repercussions elsewhere.

The krogan are past caring about the rachni or council, they've withdrawn themselves from the galaxy just about completely. Its not krogan support anyway, its Wrex support, which again players can secure with persuation on either side.

Let's not act like Reneshep is perfect either - willing to destroy data toward a cure to their genophage disease just as quickly as he/she was willing to gas the last remaining rachni because both species are too dangerous.

Both have flaws. Paragon idealism, renegade douchebaggery. Either way, neither perfect, one of few things they did OK with the otherwise-flawed morality system.

The issue is that there isn't a lick of difference between the two paths besides less content and joke dialogue for Renegade. You can pretty much base your decisions on the flip of a coin and get the same game as everyone else. Everything exists in it's own bubble and you don't have to worry about anything like there being no repercussions from the Quarians for empowering both the Geth and Cerberus, hell you can be banging Tali while doing that.

Once again with Witcher as an example, there's a story with real social-political elements that results in alternate enemies, allies and missions.  You don't get to weasle out of making enemies from the negative repercussions of your choices because they exist in a convenient bubble. There's real outcomes there.

Let's not kid ourselves into thinking ME is anything but Gears of War with a conversation simulator, a mickey mouse morality system and "choices" that are more fake than a pornstar's chest.

[Xilizhra]

Everything exists in it's own bubble and you don't have to worry about anything like there being no repercussions from the Quarians for empowering both the Geth and Cerberus, hell you can be banging Tali while doing that.

So, you want Tali to be dumb enough to not comprehend the difference between heretic and true geth?

Once again with Witcher as an example, there's a story with real social-political elements that results in alternate enemies, allies and missions. You don't get to weasle out of making enemies from the negative repercussions of your choices because they exist in a convenient bubble. There's real outcomes there.

And as a bonus, you never have to worry about anything non-heterosexual happening! But seriously, I think the system as it stands is fine, and Bioware's only mistake was creating morality meters for it.

Let's not kid ourselves into thinking ME is anything but Gears of War with a conversation simulator, a mickey mouse morality system and "choices" that are more fake than a pornstar's chest.

I think you need to find better porn.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 11 octobre 2011 - 10:50 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Everything exists in it's own bubble and you don't have to worry about anything like there being no repercussions from the Quarians for empowering both the Geth and Cerberus, hell you can be banging Tali while doing that.

So, you want Tali to be dumb enough to not comprehend the difference between heretic and true geth?

Tali should be opposed to any geth collective growing in strength, and should berate Shepard for doing allowing that to happen outside of just the LM itself and the possible subsequent loyalty conflict.

Xilizhra wrote...

Let's not kid ourselves into thinking ME is anything but Gears of War with a conversation simulator, a mickey mouse morality system and "choices" that are more fake than a pornstar's chest.

I think you need to find better porn.

Nice one. 

And Sebo, that's my line! 

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 11 octobre 2011 - 11:39 .

[Xilizhra]

Tali should be opposed to any geth collective growing in strength, and should berate Shepard for doing allowing that to happen outside of just the LM itself and the possible subsequent loyalty conflict.

I'm sure she would if it weren't for that tiny matter of imminent Reaper invasion. She may not like the idea of strengthening the geth, but would be able to understand if it's for the Reapers.

[Sebby]

Majority of porn sucks...and not in a good way.

And since when is that YOUR line?

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I guess that's why she pulls a gun on Legion, huh?

Well, Legion actively spying on her and potentially leading to a major geth attack on the Migrant Fleet did break the limit of her tolerance, yes.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

Majority of porn sucks...and not in a good way.

Like Xil said, you just need to know where to look.

And since when is that YOUR line?

I'm usually the one to make the Gears comparison.

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Majority of porn sucks...and not in a good way.

Like Xil said, you just need to know where to look.

And since when is that YOUR line?

I'm usually the one to make the Gears comparison.

Oh that, well yeah but then you've used my "gimped troll version" line!

RE: Porn, I'm waiting on Saphra's Shepard to release his Human-Quarian smut that was filmed by Cerberus productions.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

Oh that, well yeah but then you've used my "gimped troll version" line!

Fair enough.

RE: Porn, I'm waiting on Saphra's Shepard to release his Human-Quarian smut that was filmed by Cerberus productions.

Heheheh.


Oh, and Xil, I've been meaning to ask you what platform you play Mass Effect on.

[Sebby]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, Legion actively spying on her and potentially leading to a major geth attack on the Migrant Fleet did break the limit of her tolerance, yes.

She also brings up the geth being made stronger if you did the rewrite. Clearly she doesn't like it if you made that choice.

Personally, I think...

Wait, what does this have to do with the Illusive Man?

Well for what's it worth I created a pro-Cerberus Talimancer who's conflicted between his loyalty to TIM and his love for Tali.

Modifié par Seboist, 12 octobre 2011 - 12:15 .

[Xilizhra]

Oh, and Xil, I've been meaning to ask you what platform you play Mass Effect on.

PC, why?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, and Xil, I've been meaning to ask you what platform you play Mass Effect on.

PC, why?

Because of the multiplayer, would've liked to play with you as well.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, and Xil, I've been meaning to ask you what platform you play Mass Effect on.

PC, why?

Because of the multiplayer, would've liked to play with you as well.

You're Xbox, then?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, and Xil, I've been meaning to ask you what platform you play Mass Effect on.

PC, why?

Because of the multiplayer, would've liked to play with you as well.

You're Xbox, then?

Indeed, I am.

[SandTrout]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You're Xbox, then?

Indeed, I am.

My condolences.

[Sebby]

SandTrout wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You're Xbox, then?

Indeed, I am.

My condolences.

He has access to the better version of Bayonetta than I do.

[Kaiser Shepard]

SandTrout wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

You're Xbox, then?

Indeed, I am.

My condolences.

Oh, it's all right; the superior control scheme and bigger availability of good games quite make up for it.

My only regret in all these years is not being able to play the first Witcher game, and that's mostly because Dragon Age has gone downhill as fast as it did.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 12 octobre 2011 - 01:14 .

[Sebby]

The first Witcher is awesome. I'm having a blast with the Scoia'tael path in my second playthrough(did Order one in the first). It's interesting to side with my former enemy against my former allies. I can't wait to do the Iorveth path in Witcher 2....

Speaking of Dragon Age. I don't have much interest in a second playthrough of DA:O. The lore isn't all that appealing to me(Darkspawn.....zzzzz) and the combat isn't as fun as Witcher's.

[Xilizhra]

I might have played Witcher if it weren't for the fact that I'm forced into playing an unappealing protagonist. So I'll be forever out of the loop on this.