6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I see I have to pull out the Vasir quote again...

Paragon Shepard: Spectres don't blow up buildings filled with innocent people!

Tela Vasir: Sure we do! We get our hands dirty so the council doesn't have to. The councilors might complain about our methods to soothe their consciences but they never look too closely.

Yet, we have players acting all high and mighty and labeling Cerberus "terrorist" despite having no issue with being part of the Spectres.

Your quoting is extremely selective. The very next line has her saying how much worse Cerberus is. So you're relying on her being completely right and not just spitefully justifying herself while dying when it comes to Spectres, but assume that she's completely wrong about Cerberus. Your quotemining is invalid.

It's not invalid. It shows what a naive deluded moron Paragon Shepard is and how Paragons don't have the moral high ground that they think they do. That Cerberus is "worse" is besides the point.

So far, I've stopped all Spectres I've come across who've been engaged in heavily immoral activities. My standards for them haven't been proven to be any different to those I show Cerberus. And the point of this isn't that the Council is perfect, it's not. It's that Cerberus has no answer. And its days are numbered.

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I see I have to pull out the Vasir quote again...

Paragon Shepard: Spectres don't blow up buildings filled with innocent people!

Tela Vasir: Sure we do! We get our hands dirty so the council doesn't have to. The councilors might complain about our methods to soothe their consciences but they never look too closely.

Yet, we have players acting all high and mighty and labeling Cerberus "terrorist" despite having no issue with being part of the Spectres.

Your quoting is extremely selective. The very next line has her saying how much worse Cerberus is. So you're relying on her being completely right and not just spitefully justifying herself while dying when it comes to Spectres, but assume that she's completely wrong about Cerberus. Your quotemining is invalid.

It's not invalid. It shows what a naive deluded moron Paragon Shepard is and how Paragons don't have the moral high ground that they think they do. That Cerberus is "worse" is besides the point.

Oh, I see how it is. You guys are dedicated Renegades and are therefore biased. TIM is your god.

[Xilizhra]

Oh, I see how it is. You guys are dedicated Renegades and are therefore biased. TIM is your god.

Well, come on. It's TIM's own thread; you're not likely to see many TIM detractors who aren't masochist lunatics.

[Ravensword]

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, I see how it is. You guys are dedicated Renegades and are therefore biased. TIM is your god.

Well, come on. It's TIM's own thread; you're not likely to see many TIM detractors who aren't masochist lunatics.

LOL. Good point. Yet you're here arguing here against these renegades in TIM's forum and as such it must be an uphill battle.

[Xilizhra]

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's that Cerberus has no answer. And its days are numbered.

"Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed".

Ieldra2 was right. Well, I have good news for you, Xilizhra. You're going to be slaughtering Cerberus throughout ME3, and also in multiplayer too - all throughout the galaxy, retrieving the key territories from The Enemy (hint - it's not the Reapers). I don't know what more could you possibly want, unless you like to gloat.

Well, there's really no point to talking about how the Reapers are going to be defeated. Everyone except Saphra agrees on that point.

If anything, I'd be curious to see what you learn from this, beyond "Bioware is a hack."

[Ravensword]

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's that Cerberus has no answer. And its days are numbered.

"Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed".

Ieldra2 was right. Well, I have good news for you, Xilizhra. You're going to be slaughtering Cerberus throughout ME3, and also in multiplayer too - all throughout the galaxy, retrieving the key territories from The Enemy (hint - it's not the Reapers). I don't know what more could you possibly want, unless you like to gloat.

I take it the enem you speak of is Cerberus. Count me in.

[Labrev]

Well I'm bored so I'm gonna rain on laecraft's parade here.

laecraft wrote...

By the time of ME2, TIM is the only true ally. He's the only one, bar none, who has exactly the same goals and motivations that Shepard has - he's fighting for humanity, against the Reapers. And he gives Shepard all support he can offer. This is true alliance between equals. Nobody else even comes close. 

Hate to break it to you but TIM does not see you as an equal jo. He sees you as a grunt to use for his dirty work. If you die in the end, he remarks how he thought you were an idealist, regardless your moral leanings. If you destroy the base, he says it to your face. If you keep it, he basically tells you to F off when you tell him what he should do with it.

True, he poured in endless resources for the good of your mission.... with massive strings attached.

laecraft wrote...
I'm not even going to say anything about the old squad. They knew everything about the Reapers, much more than TIM did, saw them with their very eyes, knew everything from Vigil - and they did NOTHING about it for two years. They're unable to act on that "fight the Reapers" goal unless Shepard commands them what to do.

Yeah, kinda like the man-in-charge himself who went out to go fight geth after Sovereign was defeated lol (which Miranda and TIM duly noted as a fool's errand in the opening of ME2).

I mean really, what are they supposed to do, mobilize their own armies? What great thing was Shepard planning?

It's not as though a united krogan clans on Tuchanka won't be significant in the war efforts. Being a Spectre is no joke either, especially with a lack of humans in their ranks either (there's one for human-advancement) so kudos to Ash/Kaidan for what they're doing. Being an agent for the Council will surely have its benefits.

Life goes on, and the others have to keep living and can't put everything on hold. Especially not for a threat that most don't believe is remotely legitimate. People gotta pay their dues.

laecraft wrote...
The new squad is only here because TIM gives you their dossiers. If Shepard didn't call, they wouldn't even consider joining the war. Their motives have nothing to do with protecting the galaxy either. Personal motivations. Personal loyalty to Shepard. Underlings, they'd follow any strong leader. Most of them have got no fire and direction of their own.

The Collector threat, for a long time, did not have legitimacy with most. Only Shepard/Jacob/Miranda who were able to verify it themselves on Freedom's Progress. And TIM too, needed solid evidence before concluding it. Not until Horizon are their ties to the Reapers confirmed. At that point, they would all absolutely join the war. You're telling me they'd stand by and let the Collectors kill them all?

Just ask Jack about the mission (under "Investigate") after Horizon. She says it herself: the Collectors want to kill everyone, so she's on-board with doing it to them first. Personal motivations? Loyalty to Shepard? As for them having no fire, that's a big load of crap, I'm not sure even you believe that. That squad is legit, some of them are better men than Shepard imho.

laecraft wrote...
ME3...Well, other species are going to be fighting for their own people - naturally, it's only expected, and it's noble. I'm sure Shepard can help them and get help in return, but it's not the same alliance Shepard had with TIM, where you're in the same boat, and you don't have to do favours to your ally to convince him to help humanity, nor do you have to do quests to win his loyalty.

Shepard has TIM's loyalty, where'd you get that idea?

laecraft wrote...
The only "true" potential ally could be the Alliance...and that's already off the list. "Hey Shepard, we're suddenly talking again. Oh, and by the way, I need a favour."

And yet, we have no problem doing all the favors TIM wants. Are you not Cerberus's ally if you ask them for favors? That's kind of the point of an alliance anyway. Both sides want something, both have to do their part for each other. In the real world, no one gives unconditionally. Unless its family, but they are the only people that really give a schit about you.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Oh, I see how it is. You guys are dedicated Renegades and are therefore biased. TIM is your god.

Well, come on. It's TIM's own thread; you're not likely to see many TIM detractors who aren't masochist lunatics.

As a pro-Cerberus, anti-TIM kind of man, I sort of take offense to that statement... I think, not sure...

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's that Cerberus has no answer. And its days are numbered.

"Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed"

And up you go in my book! <3

Xilizhra wrote...

If anything, I'd be curious to see what you learn from this, beyond "Bioware is a hack."

BioWare can't write good stories anymore, there.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:26 .

[GodWood]

Ravensword wrote...
Even though TIM may have given humans biotics the means by which he achieved these things are horrible. Regardless of how this might have helped humanity and the fact that he gave Shepard a second chance and brough him back from the dead, this will be his undoing because now Shepard is gonna put one in the back of his head.

Why?

[Ravensword]

laecraft wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Oh, I see how it is. You guys are dedicated Renegades and are therefore biased. TIM is your god.

Just because I'm pro-Cerberus, humanity-first, TIM's fan, is deeply entrenched in my ways, believe that humanity should rule the galaxy and TIM should rule the human-dominated Council, just because I'll never be convinced that TIM is anything less than the savior of humanity and the galaxy itself - it doesn't somehow render my arguments invalid.



Vasir situation is highly enlightening. It epitomizes the Council's hypocrisy.

Blowing up a building filled with innocents.
Taking a hostage in an attempt to save your life.
Working as a hired thug for years, while the Council is closing their eyes on the crimes their Spectres commit.
Defeated, disarmed, dying, desperate to wound your opponent, lashing out with your last remaining weapon - words.

Trying to make Cerberus look bad in comparison - You Are Doing It Wrong.

You're absolutely correct. It was an ad hominem. Still I'm aware of your motives and can deal w/ you accodringly.

[Ravensword]

GodWood wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
Even though TIM may have given humans biotics the means by which he achieved these things are horrible. Regardless of how this might have helped humanity and the fact that he gave Shepard a second chance and brough him back from the dead, this will be his undoing because now Shepard is gonna put one in the back of his head.

Why?

Because I don't like TIM. The galaxy will be a better place w/o TIM.

[Ravensword]

laecraft wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I take it the enem you speak of is Cerberus. Count me in.

You didn't know? Read and rejoice.

"The multiplayer experience boils down to a four player co-op survival style mode that lets you fight increasingly difficult waves of Cerberus foes."

Nice!

[GodWood]

Ravensword wrote...
Because I don't like TIM. The galaxy will be a better place w/o TIM.

Why don't you like TIM? Does your Shepard murder everyone he doesn't like?

[Kaiser Shepard]

You'd start to wonder why the Reapers are even there, when Cerberus is apparently big enough to occupy half the galaxy...

[Ravensword]

GodWood wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
Because I don't like TIM. The galaxy will be a better place w/o TIM.

Why don't you like TIM? Does your Shepard murder everyone he doesn't like?

She can't trust him because he manipulates her w/o letting her know of his plans like walking into a trap in the collector cruiser. Not only that, my Shep disagrees w/ TIm's brutal methods simply cooperates w/ TIM because he's the only one w/ large amounts of resources that's doing something about the Reapers while the Council and the Aliliance have swept the Reaper menace under the rug. MY Shepard doesn't enjoy having to fix Cerberus' problems herself like in project Overlord. That's a Cerberus issue that has nothing to do w/ the Reapers, but she is curious about Cerberus's activities and wanted to see what project Overlord was about and see if she couldn't do some damage to Cerberus.

[Sebby]

Ravensword wrote...

Oh, I see how it is. You guys are dedicated Renegades and are therefore biased. TIM is your god.

Father Harper as a Lumen Sage is a messenger for the creator Jubileus.

If you join our religion then Jubileus might grace you too.

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Oh, I see how it is. You guys are dedicated Renegades and are therefore biased. TIM is your god.

Father Harper as a Lumen Sage is a messenger for the creator Jubileus.

If you join our religion then Jubileus might grace you too.

What? You're gonna have to fill me in on that stuff.

Modifié par Ravensword, 13 octobre 2011 - 04:45 .

[GodWood]

Ravensword wrote...
-snip-

So because he manipulated Shepard (for the good of the galaxy) and because you chose to help him clean up some projects you want to murder him?

[Ravensword]

GodWood wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
-snip-

So because he manipulated Shepard (for the good of the galaxy) and because you chose to help him clean up some projects you want to murder him?

That's some of the reasons. i don't like to think of it as murder though.

[Xilizhra]

GodWood wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
-snip-

So because he manipulated Shepard (for the good of the galaxy) and because you chose to help him clean up some projects you want to murder him?

For my own thoughts, I have no intention of murdering anyone. But it seems he's attacked me, and I'll defend myself to the best of my ability.

[Ravensword]

Xilizhra wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Ravensword wrote...
-snip-

So because he manipulated Shepard (for the good of the galaxy) and because you chose to help him clean up some projects you want to murder him?

For my own thoughts, I have no intention of murdering anyone. But it seems he's attacked me, and I'll defend myself to the best of my ability.

It doesn't matter. Can't trust TIM. What's to say he won't try to make himself emperor of the galaxy. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think it's better to kill him. He's got it coming. No hard feelings to his fans.