Aller au contenu

Photo

Brotherhood of Cerberus - The Illusive Man Discussion/Support Thread

Débuté par Lambda Faction , juil. 09 2011 10:26

  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
6970 réponses à ce sujet

#1851
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 03:02

Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
  • Guests

Xilizhra wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Liara was fine until they made that comic and I don't think Drew wrote that.

She was fine after the comic too. The only problem with personality shifts and the like was the comic making it happen too early.

I never read that comic. Now I don't need to. Thanks guys! :devil:

#1852
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 10:06

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests
[quote]Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
Because everyone disposes of you when you're no longer of value to them. The council did it. The Alliance did it. Hell, the old council will go as far as make threats against you if you reject their symbolic Spectre-status offer.[/quote]

Being repeatedly betrayed didn't harden my Shepard's heart. I'm not going to punish Cerberus for something the Alliance and the Council did.

Have a little faith. The Council are three aliens who have no reason at all to promote humanity's interests. The Alliance is an organization, not a person, so any personal relationship with them is impossible - they'll do according to the political cause. TIM is a person. It's entirely possible to create a personal bond with him.

[quote]Besides which, the warnings from NPCs that "Cerberus betrays its allies" were countless throughout the game.[/quote]

Rumours, hearsay, and Council propaganda. These people don't even believe in Reapers, and you listen to them? If you betray your allies, you'll get nowhere fast, especially with such a powerful enemy as Reapers are. They're just trying to dissuade people from allying with Cerberus. I'm amazed it worked.

[quote]He has the power to send you into a trap without your knowledge. That EDI figured out what he did was just inconvenient. You think he'd have told you after the mission that he knew the Collectors set the ship as a trap? He didn't tell you that he set Horizon to get hit until a slip-of-the-tongue on his part saying "we'll have to find another way to lure them in," which he only explains if you pick up on it. Again, after the mission. And that's just when he's on your side.[/quote]

Yes. Isn't TIM just awesome? <3 Nothing less was expected from him. Imagine what an incredible enemy he's going to be! I'm looking forward to seeing more of his manipulative side deployed directly against me. He better be more than just the boss who sends the troops after me.

Anyone who gives me intel has the power to send me into a trap - like the Council who sent me against the "geth". But TIM also provided me with a way out - EDI. He did that all for our common goal. I'll eagerly play bait any time again to save humanity. And I'm taking that mission on Collector ship as a huge compliment from TIM to my battle abilities. Maybe a little too flattering. But hey, I'm alive. That's more than what I can say about the Council's "mission."

[quote]Your partnership w/ Cerberus and the squad is a coalition force - loosely united under one goal (fighting the Collectors, protecting humanity). And coalitions historically do not last long because again, they are loose in nature. Once differences arise, even surrounding the same idea that unites them, the coalition will fall apart.[/quote]

It's much more than what I've ever had or will have with anyone else. Absolutely no one except TIM ever provides Shepard with that much support. And as long as we both stay true to our goal, we'll always be on the same side. It's just our methods that differ.

[quote]And the Collector threat was not even common-knowledge anyway.[/quote]

Surely you jest. The news keep talking about it. The batarians are laughing at us for being unable to protect our own colonies. The Earth sends Shepard concerned emails asking him if he can do anything to help. People are leaving the Alliance and joining Cerberus just so they can do something about it

[quote]Just as you wouldn't abandon all your commitments to join up with your best friend no matter how important their business is.[/quote]

You're kidding...right? It's not a favour between the buddies. The whole freaking galaxy is at stake. And they know it.

[quote]Let's say she does leave everything behind and joins, helps, and survives the suicide-mission. Awesome, great, we saved the galaxy once again! Now what? Liara goes back to work. Again, eat/roof-over-head deal, basic needs. Now pickup the phone, you have 74932 unheard messages: debtors are wondering "where the **** have you been? you've got bills to pay back!!" Now your credit has been sent to hell because you were gone for some inexplicable reason. Your clients were expecting to hear from you, now they've moved on to other brokers - there goes your income. Oh yeah, and Illium is just Omega with fancy shoes, so say "hi" to the debt-collectors (read: krogan thugs) sent your way.[/quote]

Hiring an assistant would help. I'd think an intel broker can organize a few days of vacation without her business falling apart. If Shepard doesn't save the galaxy, she won't have to worry about the bills anyway - nor anyone else would have to. I'd think one would want to contribute to her own survival and the survival of her entire species and the survival of the entire galaxy. But apparently, not everyone agrees.

[quote]Sorry Shepard, but you'll have to fight the good fight for me this time. And yes, it's completely understandable.[/quote]

Of course it is. Did I say it's not? But if you don't fight by my side, nor contribute to the fight against the Reapers in any way, then you're not my ally. TIM is.

[quote]The same way, other races will not drop everything and join you to fight the Reapers when they arrive, they have to think about what happens next. Saying that "there won't be a next time!" doesn't work, everyone has to know that they're not fighting for nothing in the end. If the aftermath of surviving the Reaper war is becoming the ******-pot to all other species in the galaxy, then continued existance is not even be worth it![/quote]

Of course. Entire species are very different from individuals and organizations. It's a completely different matter, and should be handled in a different way. The species will do what they must to survive.

[quote]By the way, the Alliance does take steps against the Collectors after the link has been made after Horizon. Hackett will say that they've evacuated people from colonies in response to the attacks, post-Arrival/pre-Suicide-Mission.[/quote]

Yet they don't support Shepard in his fight. They're waiting for a good moment to waste him. Hence, they're not allies. Only potential coalition.

[quote]Well he's getting the ship back. No clue why or how they got it or why Shep will have it back, but nonetheless. That counts for something. A ship that Mikhailovic was cleared PO'd about not having in his own fleet, now upgraded. They don't have to do it, but they are, which is huge IMO.[/quote]

Gee, thanks for giving me my own ship back so that I can fight for all of us. That's huge support. And by the way, it was Cerberus who gave it to me...Putting your logo on it isn't going to erase anything.

[quote]Do I hate it? No, I get it. I don't expect to be helped for nothing in return. I get why they weren't there to help me, and I said fine, just don't expect anything from me now. Meanwhile, I worked for their enemy and brought publicity to that, which I'd expect to cause a major PR disaster on their end. But that's not my problem.[/quote]

I don't get why they weren't there. All they had to do was make a few private statements, nothing public. "Shepard, you're doing the right thing." A little moral support. Maybe a little help with weapons. But they chose not to be my ally, and now the moment is lost. I don't want to be the only understanding one, between me and the Alliance. It's like I'm the only one interested in making that relationship work.

[quote]Meanwhile, I also get that TIM will only smile and offer me support for as long as I'm valuable to him, and will stop supporting me just as quickly once I'm no longer suiting his wants. I saw that when I opted not to keep the 'base. At that point, he tries to pull the "look at everything I've done for you"-card. So much for unconditional support. Besides which, the whole point of keeping the base is to fight the Reapers, not doing him a favor. That just tells you where his priorities really are (and now, so much for his selfless service to the human race).[/quote]

Why do you demand unconditional support from TIM, yet offer him none in return? It's a double-edged sword. Why is it the very opposite between you and the Alliance? You're perfectly fine with helping them while getting nothing in return?

TIM's just trying to influence you when he sees that you won't listen to reason. Keeping the base is crucial to the war effort, and you refuse to do it. So he resorts to the last measure - reminding you of your debt to him. Since he refused to plant a control chip into your brain, he doesn't have much other means of influencing you. His goal is still helping humanity. If you're doing something that he sees as going against your common goals, he naturally tries to steer you back on cause. But even when he's really pissed off and disappointed in you, he still doesn't turn on you. He's still considering the possibility of working with Shepard in the future.

[quote]Whatever help I get from the Alliance will be welcome, whatever I don't is fine. Same with Cerberus too (I should doubt they feel much inclined to do so).[/quote]

Especially after you showed TIM so little trust with the base. After everything he's done for your common victory, while nobody else did anything. Yes, I should doubt that too.

The fact remains that in ME2, TIM is a true ally, and the Alliance is not. The Alliance missed their chance to support Shepard during that war. Now, they'll never be anything more than just coalition. And I'll never see TIM as enemy...whatever happens.

Modifié par laecraft, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:21 .

#1853
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 10:32

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages
My two femsheps recognize TIM as the hero who saved humanity from the collectors with his masterful planning and as their own personal one for bringing them back to life. <3

They'll do whatever it takes to free TIM from the satanic curse the evil wizards Casey Cudson and Mac Walters casted on him in ME3.

#1854
Ravensword
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 10:33

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages

Seboist wrote...

My two femsheps recognize TIM as the hero who saved humanity from the collectors with his masterful planning and as their own personal one for bringing them back to life. <3

They'll do whatever it takes to free TIM from the satanic curse the evil wizards Casey Cudson and Mac Walters casted on him in ME3.


That sounds nice.

#1855
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 10:42

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages

Ravensword wrote...

That sounds nice.


I know right? My Shepard is willing to let the galaxy burn and doesn't give a **** who she has to cut down in order to save her man.

That's the ultimate romance story right there.

#1856
Ravensword
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 10:44

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

That sounds nice.


I know right? My Shepard is willing to let the galaxy burn and doesn't give a **** who she has to cut down in order to save her man.

That's the ultimate romance story right there.


LOL. The ultimate evil romance story, maybe. Do you think TIM is attrtacted FemShep?

Modifié par Ravensword, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:54 .

#1857
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 10:58

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests

Seboist wrote...

My two femsheps recognize TIM as the hero who saved humanity from the collectors with his masterful planning and as their own personal one for bringing them back to life. <3

They'll do whatever it takes to free TIM from the satanic curse the evil wizards Casey Cudson and Mac Walters casted on him in ME3.


That's the plan. <3

Honestly, the Reaper issue just faded into background with the whole Cerberus tragedy. Now my prime emotional motivation as a player is freeing TIM, having him join with me again, and if nothing else, saving his life.

Amazing how Cerberus eclipsed the Reapers. Nobody's indifferent about them, and everyone has clear plans about what they want to do with Cerberus and TIM, and people just can't wait to put those (mostly homicidal) plans into action. Reapers, what Reapers? Who cares about them?

The sad thing is that my peaceful plans are much less likely to work than the plans of the homicidal majority. Come on, what moral lesson is here, that violence is always the only answer?

#1858
Ravensword
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:10

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

My two femsheps recognize TIM as the hero who saved humanity from the collectors with his masterful planning and as their own personal one for bringing them back to life. <3

They'll do whatever it takes to free TIM from the satanic curse the evil wizards Casey Cudson and Mac Walters casted on him in ME3.


That's the plan. <3

Honestly, the Reaper issue just faded into background with the whole Cerberus tragedy. Now my prime emotional motivation as a player is freeing TIM, having him join with me again, and if nothing else, saving his life.

Amazing how Cerberus eclipsed the Reapers. Nobody's indifferent about them, and everyone has clear plans about what they want to do with Cerberus and TIM, and people just can't wait to put those (mostly homicidal) plans into action. Reapers, what Reapers? Who cares about them?

The sad thing is that my peaceful plans are much less likely to work than the plans of the homicidal majority. Come on, what moral lesson is here, that violence is always the only answer?


You should ask TIM the same question.

#1859
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:14

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

That sounds nice.


I know right? My Shepard is willing to let the galaxy burn and doesn't give a **** who she has to cut down in order to save her man.

That's the ultimate romance story right there.


LOL. The ultimate evil romance story, maybe. Do you think TIM is attrtacted FemShep?


If TIM is attracted to femshep? He should be, my two femsheps look damn good.

Besides, he's invested a lot of money into the Lazarus Project. He has the right to personally evaluate femshep to see if her... uh plumbing is in working order...yeah.

#1860
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:21

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

My two femsheps recognize TIM as the hero who saved humanity from the collectors with his masterful planning and as their own personal one for bringing them back to life. <3

They'll do whatever it takes to free TIM from the satanic curse the evil wizards Casey Cudson and Mac Walters casted on him in ME3.


That's the plan. <3

Honestly, the Reaper issue just faded into background with the whole Cerberus tragedy. Now my prime emotional motivation as a player is freeing TIM, having him join with me again, and if nothing else, saving his life.

Amazing how Cerberus eclipsed the Reapers. Nobody's indifferent about them, and everyone has clear plans about what they want to do with Cerberus and TIM, and people just can't wait to put those (mostly homicidal) plans into action. Reapers, what Reapers? Who cares about them?

The sad thing is that my peaceful plans are much less likely to work than the plans of the homicidal majority. Come on, what moral lesson is here, that violence is always the only answer?


While the whole Cerberus issue is a great tragedy there are other great concerns for me, like  I fear the whole Geth vs Quarian issue will end up being some kumbaya nonsense. "General User" did a great thread about how peace between the two should realistically be a pipe dream and ideally I would have liked to see Shepard facing the dilemma of who to side with(Quarians/Tali or Legion as enemies FTW) in ME3.

The Rachni issue is another one. We already faced the letdown of it existing in a convenient bubble away from the Krogans and I fear we'll have some touchy feely "monsters redeemed" scenario on our hands.

Modifié par Seboist, 14 octobre 2011 - 11:28 .

#1861
Tyrannosaurus Rex
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:26

Tyrannosaurus Rex
  • Members
  • 10 800 messages

Seboist wrote...
The Rachni issue is another one. We already faced the letdown of it existing in a convenient bubble away from the Krogans and I fear we'll have some touchy feely "monsters redeemed" scenario on our hands.


Don't forget that we will fight huskified Rachni. That to me is a 100% gurante that we will fight them no matter what. Even if we killed the queen.

#1862
Ravensword
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:27

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

That sounds nice.


I know right? My Shepard is willing to let the galaxy burn and doesn't give a **** who she has to cut down in order to save her man.

That's the ultimate romance story right there.


LOL. The ultimate evil romance story, maybe. Do you think TIM is attrtacted FemShep?


If TIM is attracted to femshep? He should be, my two femsheps look damn good.

Besides, he's invested a lot of money into the Lazarus Project. He has the right to personally evaluate femshep to see if her... uh plumbing is in working order...yeah.


Well, that's all fine and dandy. So what happens if your FemShep has to face off against TIM? What options would you want at your disposal?

#1863
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:37

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...
The Rachni issue is another one. We already faced the letdown of it existing in a convenient bubble away from the Krogans and I fear we'll have some touchy feely "monsters redeemed" scenario on our hands.


Don't forget that we will fight huskified Rachni. That to me is a 100% gurante that we will fight them no matter what. Even if we killed the queen.


and ten bucks says they'll be Cerberus Rachni in both paths.

#1864
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:43

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests
Posted Image

Modifié par laecraft, 14 octobre 2011 - 12:05 .

#1865
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:44

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages

Ravensword wrote...

Well, that's all fine and dandy. So what happens if your FemShep has to face off against TIM? What options would you want at your disposal?


If the unfathomable happens and she has to kill him, then she'll proceed to take his former place and continue her fallen man's vision.

#1866
Ravensword
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:46

Ravensword
  • Members
  • 6 185 messages

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Well, that's all fine and dandy. So what happens if your FemShep has to face off against TIM? What options would you want at your disposal?


If the unfathomable happens and she has to kill him, then she'll proceed to take his former place and continue her fallen man's vision.


Ah, the Illusive Woman. Got a nice ring to it.

#1867
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 11:51

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests

Seboist wrote...

Besides, he's invested a lot of money into the Lazarus Project. He has the right to personally evaluate femshep to see if her... uh plumbing is in working order...yeah.


I'd pay to see that.

#1868
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 12:00

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Besides, he's invested a lot of money into the Lazarus Project. He has the right to personally evaluate femshep to see if her... uh plumbing is in working order...yeah.


I'd pay to see that.


When Saphra is done filming his human-quarian smut I'll be sure to borrow the cameras from him so I can shoot TIM and my two femsheps. Preferably at the same time so I can save time and money. *wink *wink

#1869
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 12:06

Guest_laecraft_*
  • Guests
:lol:

#1870
Xilizhra
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 01:00

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...
The Rachni issue is another one. We already faced the letdown of it existing in a convenient bubble away from the Krogans and I fear we'll have some touchy feely "monsters redeemed" scenario on our hands.


Don't forget that we will fight huskified Rachni. That to me is a 100% gurante that we will fight them no matter what. Even if we killed the queen.


and ten bucks says they'll be Cerberus Rachni in both paths.

Well, yeah. Why else would they bother having Cerberus have its own rachni? It was a way to ensure some would be around in the future if the writers ever needed to use them past ME1. And why do you think a whole enemy class would be not included in the game based on one ME1 decision?

In any case, they never needed to be redeemed; they were never evil, just indoctrinated.

Finally, I forgive the Alliance and the Council because, against me, their greatest crime was one of arguable stupidity, not malice. I wouldn't trust them to be unconditional allies, but they aren't on the same level as Cerberus, whom I see as an enemy, its receiving of righteous purging only delayed by their potential usefulness against the Reapers. The instant that ends, I'm going to take on Cerberus myself... and luckily, they seem to have ended it sooner than I could have hoped.

#1871
Sebby
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 03:27

Sebby
  • Members
  • 11 993 messages

Xilizhra wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...
The Rachni issue is another one. We already faced the letdown of it existing in a convenient bubble away from the Krogans and I fear we'll have some touchy feely "monsters redeemed" scenario on our hands.


Don't forget that we will fight huskified Rachni. That to me is a 100% gurante that we will fight them no matter what. Even if we killed the queen.


and ten bucks says they'll be Cerberus Rachni in both paths.

Well, yeah. Why else would they bother having Cerberus have its own rachni? It was a way to ensure some would be around in the future if the writers ever needed to use them past ME1. And why do you think a whole enemy class would be not included in the game based on one ME1 decision?

In any case, they never needed to be redeemed; they were never evil, just indoctrinated.

Finally, I forgive the Alliance and the Council because, against me, their greatest crime was one of arguable stupidity, not malice. I wouldn't trust them to be unconditional allies, but they aren't on the same level as Cerberus, whom I see as an enemy, its receiving of righteous purging only delayed by their potential usefulness against the Reapers. The instant that ends, I'm going to take on Cerberus myself... and luckily, they seem to have ended it sooner than I could have hoped.


See, in a real game with choices like The Witcher one's allies and enemies are dependant on what the PC chooses. I didn't have to fight a single Scoia'tael in Witcher 1 if I didn't want to and there's no "lol they're your enemy now and you have to find out why" as if I'm supposed to give a **** after being given the gimped troll/assclown path.

#1872
Xilizhra
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 03:32

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

See, in a real game with choices like The Witcher one's allies and enemies are dependant on what the PC chooses. I didn't have to fight a single Scoia'tael in Witcher 1 if I didn't want to and there's no "lol they're your enemy now and you have to find out why" as if I'm supposed to give a **** after being given the gimped troll/assclown path.

And in that game, correct me if I'm wrong, Space Cthulhu isn't trying to wipe out all life, thus providing an excellent impetus for people to put aside their differences for now. Hence things like geth and quarians being able to work together.

#1873
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 04:29

Kaiser Shepard
  • Members
  • 7 890 messages

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

That sounds nice.


I know right? My Shepard is willing to let the galaxy burn and doesn't give a **** who she has to cut down in order to save her man.

That's the ultimate romance story right there.

Who cares? It's all out war!


Xilizhra wrote...

See, in a real game with choices like The Witcher one's allies and enemies are dependant on what the PC chooses. I didn't have to fight a single Scoia'tael in Witcher 1 if I didn't want to and there's no "lol they're your enemy now and you have to find out why" as if I'm supposed to give a **** after being given the gimped troll/assclown path.

And in that game, correct me if I'm wrong, Space Cthulhu isn't trying to wipe out all life, thus providing an excellent impetus for people to put aside their differences for now. Hence things like geth and quarians being able to work together.

Ah, so the one dimensional badguys that actually aren't that dangerous because you prioritised saving the Council over stopping them are now so powerful that they justify bad writing all over the galaxy?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 14 octobre 2011 - 04:32 .

#1874
Barquiel
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 04:56

Barquiel
  • Members
  • 5 854 messages

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And in that game, correct me if I'm wrong, Space Cthulhu isn't trying to wipe out all life, thus providing an excellent impetus for people to put aside their differences for now. Hence things like geth and quarians being able to work together.

Ah, so the one dimensional badguys that actually aren't that dangerous because you prioritised saving the Council over stopping them are now so powerful that they justify bad writing all over the galaxy?


"Putting aside differences in order to achieve a common goal" is bad writing...care to elaborate?  Our history is full of it.

Modifié par Barquiel, 14 octobre 2011 - 04:57 .

#1875
Xilizhra
Posté 14 octobre 2011 - 05:00

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

See, in a real game with choices like The Witcher one's allies and enemies are dependant on what the PC chooses. I didn't have to fight a single Scoia'tael in Witcher 1 if I didn't want to and there's no "lol they're your enemy now and you have to find out why" as if I'm supposed to give a **** after being given the gimped troll/assclown path.

And in that game, correct me if I'm wrong, Space Cthulhu isn't trying to wipe out all life, thus providing an excellent impetus for people to put aside their differences for now. Hence things like geth and quarians being able to work together.

Ah, so the one dimensional badguys that actually aren't that dangerous because you prioritised saving the Council over stopping them are now so powerful that they justify bad writing all over the galaxy?

I'll just wait for you to write a rebuttal that makes sense.
Retourner dans Combat, Strategy, and Gameplay


  1. The BioWare Forum
  2. → Mass Effect
  3. → Mass Effect 3
  4. → Combat, Strategy, and Gameplay