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[Barquiel]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Why is human dominance such a bad thing?

Because Shepards children will be asari

[Dave of Canada]

Ieldra2 wrote...

If you'd read Evolution, you'd know he recognized what happened to the Turians as a devolution.

Only read the last issue, wasn't it mentioned that the husks were an "evolution" of Turians? Or was that Saren's brother (forget his name)?

(Just to be clear: that's no excuse for the way Cerberus experimented on Jack and suchlike)

I'd argue but that's another argument. 

[jtav]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

If you'd read Evolution, you'd know he recognized what happened to the Turians as a devolution.

Only read the last issue, wasn't it mentioned that the husks were an "evolution" of Turians? Or was that Saren's brother (forget his name)?

It was Desolas. TIM repeatedly called for the experiment to be halted.

And I don't know about human dominance, but the Council must fall.

[Xilizhra]

If you'd read Evolution, you'd know he recognized what happened to the Turians as a devolution. Not at all desirable for humans. Also he's not stupid enough to not be rather wary of the Reapers' claim to ascension. That Reaper technology might help in a kind of ascension is a different matter. His agenda, among other things, was, and is, to master those tools for the benefit of humanity. I am absolutely with him in that.

(Just to be clear: that's no excuse for the way Cerberus experimented on Jack and suchlike)

Yes, because being turned into husks and becoming a Reaper are the exact same thing.

That statement is a contradiction.

I presume you don't believe that adopted human children would count either?

Let us remember that the Teltin cell (Jack) was rogue. We know this was the case, we saw the logs ourselves.

We know they were hiding something, but as Jack points out, we don't know what. I doubt TIM has the capacity to be morally outraged, or even annoyed, by it, so I think they were just hiding the attrition rate and potential resource wastage. Remember they said that TIM wouldn't care so long as they actually got results.

[Fiery Phoenix]

David, if you haven't read Evolution, you can check it out here on the ME Wiki. There is a pretty comprehensive summary of all four issues. I, for one, find this synopsis more readable than the actual comic.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:27 .

[Xilizhra]

And I don't know about human dominance, but the Council must fall.

The Council must be reformed. Cerberus must burn.

[Dave of Canada]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Let us remember that the Teltin cell (Jack) was rogue. We know this was the case, we saw the logs ourselves.

Even if it wasn't, I don't see what's wrong with it. Their methods were brutal but it resulted in one of the strongest human biotics and it resulted in knowledge which the Alliance has applied to it's Biotics program resulting in an overall stronger biotic force for all of humanity.

Imagine if the facility had been rebuilt, Jack recaptured and the experiments continued (rather than abandoning the project and giving it over to the Alliance with backdoor experimenting on Gillain) on her. Humanity matching Matriarch biotic capabilities in 1/5th of the time would be awesome.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:27 .

[Xilizhra]

Even if it wasn't, I don't see what's wrong with it. Their methods were brutal but it resulted in one of the strongest human biotics and it resulted in knowledge which the Alliance has applied to it's Biotics program resulting in an overall stronger biotic force for all of humanity.

The biotic programs were going ahead anyway, and you can't argue that they were instrumental in saving the galaxy because both Kaidan and biotic Shepard are too old to have been in Ascension. I'm not positive about Jacob, but he certainly doesn't seem much younger than Shepard, and Miranda is older than both.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Council must be reformed.

I've already done that, thankfully. No more Asari on the Council can only do the universe good.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

The biotic programs were going ahead anyway, and you can't argue that they were instrumental in saving the galaxy because both Kaidan and biotic Shepard are too old to have been in Ascension. I'm not positive about Jacob, but he certainly doesn't seem much younger than Shepard, and Miranda is older than both.

Ignoring how I didn't say it was instrumental in saving the galaxy:
Jacob's biotics are useless in the mission, using them results in somebody dying.
Miranda's biotics are useless in the mission, using them results in somebody dying.
Shepard can't use his/her biotics, though he/she died and got improvements. L3 to L5.
Jack's biotics aren't useless, no casualties.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 octobre 2011 - 09:33 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

And I don't know about human dominance, but the Council must fall.

The Council must be reformed. Cerberus must burn.

Both must be reformed, but only the former group has trillions of biotic witches under it, each of which should be sterilised, interned and/or eliminated.

[Xilizhra]

I've already done that, thankfully. No more Asari on the Council can only do the universe good.

We shall see. Or, rather, you shall.

Ignoring how I didn't say it was instrumental in saving the galaxy:
Jacob's biotics are useless in the mission, using them results in somebody dying.
Miranda's biotics are useless in the mission, using them results in somebody dying.
Shepard can't use his/her biotics, though he/she died and got improvements. L3 to L5.
Jack's biotics aren't useless, no casualties.

Samara. Jack is redundant.

Both must be reformed, but only the former group has trillions of biotic witches under it, each of which should be sterilised, interned and/or eliminated.

Well, let's see. Between trillions of asari and the one lunatic I'm talking to... hmm, choices, choices.

[jtav]

That's game mechanics.

And lets take a look at these lesser biotics. Two are soldiers. One is a Spectre One led the Lazarus team. Jack is purely destructive and uncontrollable, spending long stretches of time in prison. Who did more for humanity? People are not animals and treating them as such will have consequences.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

Samara. Jack is redundant.

Jack, a 20-ish year old woman, has the power of a centuries old Asari. Let's not forget either that Jack's powers are only getting stronger.

I don't see how that's redundant.

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Samara. Jack is redundant.

Jack, a 20-ish year old woman, has the power of a centuries old Asari. Let's not forget either that Jack's powers are only getting stronger.

I don't see how that's redundant.

Call me for comparison between Jack and an asari with similar procedures performed upon them.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Samara. Jack is redundant.

Jack, a 20-ish year old woman, has the power of a centuries old Asari. Let's not forget either that Jack's powers are only getting stronger.

I don't see how that's redundant.

Call me for comparison between Jack and an asari with similar procedures performed upon them.

Call me when you find an intelligent species as adaptable as a human, or an asari willing to change the status quo.

[Xilizhra]

Call me when you find an intelligent species as adaptable as a human, or an asari willing to change the status quo.

Aethyta, probably Liara.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Call me when you find an intelligent species as adaptable as a human, or an asari willing to change the status quo.

Aethyta, probably Liara.

Liara wants to keep things as they are (or were, taken to the extreme in Redemption), whereas No-Sex McBartender was the exception to the rule, and as such still unable to change anything.

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Call me when you find an intelligent species as adaptable as a human, or an asari willing to change the status quo.

Aethyta, probably Liara.

Liara wants to keep things as they are (or were, taken to the extreme in Redemption), whereas No-Sex McBartender was the exception to the rule, and as such still unable to change anything.

The status quo can't possibly last much longer, given the load of Reapers about to be dropped on it.

[Barquiel]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Samara. Jack is redundant.

Jack, a 20-ish year old woman, has the power of a centuries old Asari. Let's not forget either that Jack's powers are only getting stronger.

I don't see how that's redundant.

Call me for comparison between Jack and an asari with similar procedures performed upon them.

Call me when you find an intelligent species as adaptable as a human, or an asari willing to change the status quo.

What's wrong with the status quo? The asari government is a utopian republic. There's really no reason to change anything.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Call me when you find an intelligent species as adaptable as a human, or an asari willing to change the status quo.

Aethyta, probably Liara.

Liara wants to keep things as they are (or were, taken to the extreme in Redemption), whereas No-Sex McBartender was the exception to the rule, and as such still unable to change anything.

The status quo can't possibly last much longer, given the load of Reapers about to be dropped on it.

Yet, in a universe without Reapers they as a society would have stayed as stale and unchanging as ever.

The same might even hold true for one with Reapers, looking at their current track record.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 14 octobre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Xilizhra]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Call me when you find an intelligent species as adaptable as a human, or an asari willing to change the status quo.

Aethyta, probably Liara.

Liara wants to keep things as they are (or were, taken to the extreme in Redemption), whereas No-Sex McBartender was the exception to the rule, and as such still unable to change anything.

The status quo can't possibly last much longer, given the load of Reapers about to be dropped on it.

Yet, in a universe without Reapers they as a society would have stayed as stale and unchanging as ever.

The same might even hold true for one with Reapers, looking at their current track record.

You make rather a lot of assumptions, especially since the existence of the Reapers was instrumental in sending sapient species along a specific technology path that encourages ignoring how things actually work as long as they remain useful, and seems to lead to a plateau.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Barquiel wrote...

What's wrong with the status quo?

Everything.

The asari government is a utopian republic. There's really no reason to change anything.

How is it a utopia, when the intention behind it is the same that will ultimately lead to its fall?

Xilizhra wrote...

You make rather a lot of assumptions, especially since the existence of the Reapers was instrumental in sending sapient species along a specific technology path that encourages ignoring how things actually work as long as they remain useful, and seems to lead to a plateau.

And yet those idiots did exactly what was expected of them, for a whole two millennia no less. Then again, that also perfectly describes an individual asari's life; admirably long, but in the end totally wasted on mere futilities.