6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Who cares about TIM? I want that balloon in my squad.

[Sebby]

laecraft wrote...

That balloon is incredible! Wish it were possible, and we could have TIM join our team. And then we'd celebrate that epic event. With balloons...and other things.

Best case scenario for me would be allying with Cerberus and TIM as a temporary squadmate/LI.

I would be forgiving of having to fight Cerberus if that happened...

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Who cares about TIM? I want that balloon in my squad.

With that kind of attitude around the Cerberus blood brotherhood don't be surprised if you end up getting popped like one.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Who cares about TIM? I want that balloon in my squad.

With that kind of attitude around the Cerberus blood brotherhood don't be surprised if you end up getting popped like one.

Screw your precious little Cerberus, Balloony and I are starting Berberus, right after I draw him a face so he can become The Illusive Balloon.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 15 octobre 2011 - 05:00 .

[Blacklash93]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
And yet those idiots did exactly what was expected of them, for a whole two millennia no less. Then again, that also perfectly describes an individual asari's life; admirably long, but in the end totally wasted on mere futilities.

I hope you don't paint everyone with the same brush like that in real life.

And that's not even remotely true. Asari experience their stages of life in long spans, like childhood and foolish adolesence, but once they reach the Matriarch stage at the latest they usually become very productive members of society.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 15 octobre 2011 - 05:24 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
And yet those idiots did exactly what was expected of them, for a whole two millennia no less. Then again, that also perfectly describes an individual asari's life; admirably long, but in the end totally wasted on mere futilities.

I hope you don't paint everyone with the same brush like that in real life.

And that's not even remotely true. Asari experience their stages of life in long spans, like foolish adolesence, but once they reach the Matriarch stage at the latest they usully become very productive members of society.

Oh, but I do. Just ask around on here, most find me to be quite judgemental.

And sure, but the fact that they're lives are longer does not mean they have be children for a centuries before finally getting their act together. I mean, Liara should be a source of infinite wisdom by the time you meet her in ME1, yet she is but a mere insecure teenager. And so far we have yet to see one of these "Matriarchs" being useful, and on that note I doubt that there are more than a few dozen of them.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 15 octobre 2011 - 05:33 .

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
And yet those idiots did exactly what was expected of them, for a whole two millennia no less. Then again, that also perfectly describes an individual asari's life; admirably long, but in the end totally wasted on mere futilities.

I hope you don't paint everyone with the same brush like that in real life.

And that's not even remotely true. Asari experience their stages of life in long spans, like foolish adolesence, but once they reach the Matriarch stage at the latest they usully become very productive members of society.

Oh, but I do. Just ask around on here, most find me to be quite judgemental.

And sure, but the fact that they're lives are longer does not mean they have be children for a centuries before finally getting their act together. I mean, Liara should be a source of infinite wisdom by the time you meet her in ME1, yet she is but a mere insecure teenager. And so far we have yet to see one of these "Matriarchs" being useful, and on that note I doubt that there are more than a few dozen of them.

True, you're a homophobic white supremacist extremist!

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
And yet those idiots did exactly what was expected of them, for a whole two millennia no less. Then again, that also perfectly describes an individual asari's life; admirably long, but in the end totally wasted on mere futilities.

I hope you don't paint everyone with the same brush like that in real life.

And that's not even remotely true. Asari experience their stages of life in long spans, like foolish adolesence, but once they reach the Matriarch stage at the latest they usully become very productive members of society.

Oh, but I do. Just ask around on here, most find me to be quite judgemental.

And sure, but the fact that they're lives are longer does not mean they have be children for a centuries before finally getting their act together. I mean, Liara should be a source of infinite wisdom by the time you meet her in ME1, yet she is but a mere insecure teenager. And so far we have yet to see one of these "Matriarchs" being useful, and on that note I doubt that there are more than a few dozen of them.

True, you're a homophobic white supremacist extremist!

You forgot fascist. 

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
And yet those idiots did exactly what was expected of them, for a whole two millennia no less. Then again, that also perfectly describes an individual asari's life; admirably long, but in the end totally wasted on mere futilities.

I hope you don't paint everyone with the same brush like that in real life.

And that's not even remotely true. Asari experience their stages of life in long spans, like foolish adolesence, but once they reach the Matriarch stage at the latest they usully become very productive members of society.

Oh, but I do. Just ask around on here, most find me to be quite judgemental.

And sure, but the fact that they're lives are longer does not mean they have be children for a centuries before finally getting their act together. I mean, Liara should be a source of infinite wisdom by the time you meet her in ME1, yet she is but a mere insecure teenager. And so far we have yet to see one of these "Matriarchs" being useful, and on that note I doubt that there are more than a few dozen of them.

True, you're a homophobic white supremacist extremist!

You forgot fascist. 

How about sexist? that's a must.

[Ieldra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
If you'd read Evolution, you'd know he recognized what happened to the Turians as a devolution.

Only read the last issue, wasn't it mentioned that the husks were an "evolution" of Turians? Or was that Saren's brother (forget his name)?

Desolas thought the husks would be evolved turians. Harper realized that they were devolved versions, transformed into beings easier to control by whatever was out there (he didn't know it was the Reapers at that point).

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...

And I don't know about human dominance, but the Council must fall.

The Council must be reformed. Cerberus must burn.

The Council must fall. Cerberus must be reformed.

[Ieldra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Let us remember that the Teltin cell (Jack) was rogue. We know this was the case, we saw the logs ourselves.

Even if it wasn't, I don't see what's wrong with it. Their methods were brutal but it resulted in one of the strongest human biotics and it resulted in knowledge which the Alliance has applied to it's Biotics program resulting in an overall stronger biotic force for all of humanity.

Imagine if the facility had been rebuilt, Jack recaptured and the experiments continued (rather than abandoning the project and giving it over to the Alliance with backdoor experimenting on Gillain) on her. Humanity matching Matriarch biotic capabilities in 1/5th of the time would be awesome.

You can't be serious. Just imagine what they were doing there.

I can imagine various methods to achieve similar results more elegant and less painful than the ones adopted by the Pragia cell. Even if you say the ends justify the means, that's doesn't hold if there are less brutal means to achieve a similar end. Also note that Jack isn't quite mentally healthy. She isn't exactly a model for future human biotics.

I'm certainly not a purist when it comes to ethics, especially in a possible extinction scenario, but at the very least, for this kind of cruelty you'd have to demonstrate that there is no alternative *and* that the necessity outweighs the ethical considerations. I can see no convincing argument for either.

[Ieldra]

Barquiel wrote...
What's wrong with the status quo? The asari government is a utopian republic. There's really no reason to change anything.

Ask Aethyta. Cultural and technological stagnation, a society constrained by fear of the unknown. Which is, of course, not bad in any objective sense, but usually the first sign of downfall.

Also, how utopian asari society really is is debatable.

[Xilizhra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And I don't know about human dominance, but the Council must fall.

The Council must be reformed. Cerberus must burn.

The Council must fall. Cerberus must be reformed.

I really don't think it's possible to do much reforming on Cerberus, especially now. And toppling the whole Council would lead to too much chaos when it could be reformed otherwise.

[Ieldra]

Details, details. It all depends on how much one resents the status quo, which is different for my Shepards. I would be open to a Council reform in principle. As strange as that may sound given that I always argue against you, they're even alive in my main Shepards' games due to my amazing powers of rationalization. Putting Aethyta on the Council might be a good first step. But I also think that something like Cerberus must exist. We've been over that several times.

Mainly, I think both viewpoints are equally valid and only depend on your preferred vision of the galaxy's future, none of which is inherently worse than the other. For that reason, I wanted to present a short counterpoint to your "Cerberus delendum est" agenda. Hey, why don't you adopt that as your personal motto and put it into your signature...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 octobre 2011 - 01:49 .

[Barquiel]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ask Aethyta. Cultural and technological stagnation, a society constrained by fear of the unknown. Which is, of course, not bad in any objective sense, but usually the first sign of downfall.

Also, how utopian asari society really is is debatable.

Older people always moaned about the "youth of today"...it dates back to Plato, and probably a lot further. Why should it be any different on Thessia

And why do you think the asari stagnate? We know they develop new technologies (Silaris Armor) and CDN/planet descriptions indicate that they're very busy exploring the galaxy.

[Xilizhra]

If I may ask, how would you feel if in response to Cerberus, every other Council race created a similar organization? Disregarding if you feel they already have one, just making another unaccountable-to-everyone-except-shady-leader military/science/intelligence agency.

[Ieldra]

Xilizhra wrote...
If I may ask, how would you feel if in response to Cerberus, every other Council race created a similar organization? Disregarding if you feel they already have one, just making another unaccountable-to-everyone-except-shady-leader military/science/intelligence agency.

I would find it understandable (and indeed, the Spectres are the Council's Cerberus). I would expect tension, of course, for they'd be natural rivals to the human organization, but I wouldn't have any problems with that. As with Cerberus, any problems would concern the methods adopted by the organizations. Likely, the species would have to come to some sort of tacit agreement about what is acceptable and what is not.

BTW, here's one thing an unaccountable organization can do better: I've never understood why assassination of enemy leaders isn't seen as a less costly alternative to open war. Or rather, of course I understand that the leaders (of the world, of the galaxy) as a group don't want to be targets, so of course they prefer others to die for them and set the policy accordingly. An unaccountable organization doesn't need to subscribe to such a policy.

 

[Ieldra]

[quote]Barquiel wrote...

[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

Ask Aethyta. Cultural and technological stagnation, a society constrained by fear of the unknown. Which is, of course, not bad in any objective sense, but usually the first sign of downfall.

Also, how utopian asari society really is is debatable.

[/quote]

Older people always moaned about the "youth of today"...it dates back to Plato, and probably a lot further. Why should it be any different on Thessia[/quote]
If you mean Aethyta with "older people", note that it's usually the older people who represent cultural stagnation and the fear of the unknown. This is not a good example.

[quote]And why do you think the asari stagnate? We know they develop new technologies (Silaris Armor) and CDN/planet descriptions indicate that they're very busy exploring the galaxy.[/quote]
They *were* busy exploring the galaxy. Also planet descriptions tend to be somewhat arbitrary, especially in ME2 - recall the debate about human population levels. And if they still are exploring, another issue comes up: they go exploring and forbid the other species to open newly-discovered mass relays. How should I take that except as an attempt to keep their power monopoly? Oh, I don't mind, it's only natural, but neither should they mind that I don't feel bound by their restrictions. 




[/quote]

[Xilizhra]

Likely, the species would have to come to some sort of tacit agreement about what is acceptable and what is not.

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

BTW, here's one thing an unaccountable organization can do better: I've never understood why assassination of enemy leaders isn't seen as a less costly alternative to open war. Or rather, of course I understand that the leaders (of the world, of the galaxy) as a group don't want to be targets, so of course they prefer others to die for them and set the policy accordingly. An unaccountable organization doesn't need to subscribe to such a policy.

Well, I do know the STG doesn't seem to have anything against that, and nor do Spectres, so unaccountability isn't actually a necessity. Also, Cerberus has only ever assassinated inconvenient politicians.

[Graceyn]

Illusive art, for your pleasure:



Source

[Sebby]

Graceyn wrote...

Illusive art, for your pleasure:

Source

Well done, I like how it highlights his eyes and facial features. :happy:

[General User]

One should never forget that Cerberus was created largely on the initiative of one man in response to the threats humanity faced after first contact was made. You could even call Cerberus a spontaneous, grassroots interstellar black-ops group. As long as threats like the ones humanity faces in the MEverse exist, Cerberus, or a group very much like them, will continue to exist. If not TIM then someone else will, as the Americans say, "step up to the plate."

If you really want to get rid of Cerberus, you have to get rid of the threat. Since eliminating the threat "other" poses to "self" is, of course, an impossibility, you instead have to alter the nature of the threat to the extent that an organization like Cerberus is no longer needed. And that mean minimizing to the greatest extent possible, if not outright eliminating, the role race plays in the politics of the Mass Effect galaxy.

To my mind there are two major changes that can be immediately made to move in that direction. The first is to reform the Council so that representation is by nation/planet/star-nation/empire, not by species. Simply inviting a larger number of races to participate in the current system is no necessarily a productive or progressive idea. Indeed it could simply give long time enemies a new arena in which to fight old battles.

The second idea is to invite, encourage, and (in special cases) annex alien dominated worlds into
the Alliance. A true virtue of this idea is that it doesn't rely on the Council. If the Council will not reform, we (the rest of the galaxy) will simply move on without them while they simply fade away.

Cerberus' goal should be a galaxy where Cerberus is not necessary!

[jtav]

General User, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Can we get rid of the cultural and technological stagnation too?