6970 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

One should never forget that Cerberus was created largely on the initiative of one man in response to the threats humanity faced after first contact was made. You could even call Cerberus a spontaneous, grassroots interstellar black-ops group. As long as threats like the ones humanity faces in the MEverse exist, Cerberus, or a group very much like them, will continue to exist. If not TIM then someone else will, as the Americans say, "step up to the plate."

It's true, evil and crime are endemic to sapient life. But that doesn't mean that we should stop fighting it.

If you really want to get rid of Cerberus, you have to get rid of the threat. Since eliminating the threat "other" poses to "self" is, of course, an impossibility, you instead have to alter the nature of the threat to the extent that an organization like Cerberus is no longer needed. And that mean minimizing to the greatest extent possible, if not outright eliminating, the role race plays in the politics of the Mass Effect galaxy.

To my mind there are two major changes that can be immediately made to move in that direction. The first is to reform the Council so that representation is by nation/planet/star-nation/empire, not by species. Simply inviting a larger number of races to participate in the current system is no necessarily a productive or progressive idea. Indeed it could simply give long time enemies a new arena in which to fight old battles.

This is both a good idea and the precise opposite of what Cerberus would want. So you'd have to be fighting both them and the Council if you tried to go through with it.

The second idea is to invite, encourage, and (in special cases) annex alien dominated worlds into
the Alliance. A true virtue of this idea is that it doesn't rely on the Council. If the Council will not reform, we (the rest of the galaxy) will simply move on without them while they simply fade away.

This, though, should only be done after the Alliance removes its human-only leadership, otherwise it's simply species conquest.

Cerberus' goal should be a galaxy where Cerberus is not necessary!

A nice sentiment, but it's never going to happen. No political organization ever has ever had the primary goal of "make itself obsolete." Cerberus will, like anyone else, want to stay in power, and that would mean enforcing human dominance.

[Barquiel]

Ieldra2 wrote...

If you mean Aethyta with "older people", note that it's usually the older people who represent cultural stagnation and the fear of the unknown. This is not a good example.

They *were* busy exploring the galaxy. Also planet descriptions tend to be somewhat arbitrary, especially in ME2 - recall the debate about human population levels. And if they still are exploring, another issue comes up: they go exploring and forbid the other species to open newly-discovered mass relays. How should I take that except as an attempt to keep their power monopoly? Oh, I don't mind, it's only natural, but neither should they mind that I don't feel bound by their restrictions. 

I meant her "young asari should help improve society in their maiden years instead of becoming strippers" comment.
She is probably right about the Mass Relays, but we don't have enough information here (costs, economic profitability of a second network, etc.) That doesn't mean there is something fundamentally wrong with their society.

They're still exploring...remember the CDN story about the "forgotten human colony"? But I agree, the Mass Relay restrictions need to go.

[General User]

Double post

Modifié par General User, 15 octobre 2011 - 05:36 .

[General User]

jtav wrote...

General User, that sounds like a fantastic idea. Can we get rid of the cultural and technological stagnation too?

In a way, yes we can [joke deleted in order to avoid real world politics].  It's all about creating independent nations that will compete with each other and encouraging (though not forcing, what would be the point of that?) them to do so peacefully (or at least non-violently). Competition obliterates stagnation.

Of course, you can have a competitive system and still leave the racial angle as is (arguably, a competitive system based on race IS the current system), but I have to think that such a system is ultimately divisive and counter-productive whether the Council exists in it's current form or not.

In Mass Effect, we see the racial-state in any of the major powers (except MAYBE the Alliance), and the super-state in the form of the Council. Where is the sovereign nation-state? Where is "Option C"? What happened to independence and self-determination? And why must everything be about race anyway? Just because the Council is organized along racial lines, why must we?

...Anyone who can pinpoint the exact point where I started ranting is a better person than I.

Modifié par General User, 15 octobre 2011 - 05:35 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

How about sexist? that's a must.

At times, dear Watson, at times.

Xilizhra wrote...

And toppling the whole Council would lead to too much chaos when it could be reformed otherwise.

How would crushing or allowing the Council to fall lead to chaos?

laecraft wrote...

Graceyn wrote...

Illusive art, for your pleasure:

Source

Very impressive.

Indeed, and the black and white is a nice symbolic touch.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:10 .

[Xilizhra]

I'm surprised you like a Paragon-themed ending.

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...
It's true, evil and crime are endemic to sapient life. But that doesn't mean that we should stop fighting it.

It's all about taking on the problem at its source, about curing the disease rather that treating the symptoms.  Not that one has to choose between the two!  But purely as a matter of philosophy, in those case where a choice is required, it should be an obvious one.

This is both a good idea and the precise opposite of what Cerberus would want. So you'd have to be fighting both them and the Council if you tried to go through with it.

No one said it would be easy!  That's why we need teamwork!

This, though, should only be done after the Alliance removes its human-only leadership, otherwise it's simply species conquest.

Does the Alliance have a human only policy for leadership?  Or for voting for or holding elected office? 

If it does, I have to change some of my Mindoir stuff (I have an asari in the Mindoir Colonial Senate).  Though, now that I think about it, a bit where the Alliance says:"You can't have a non-human in your Senate!"  and the Mindoinese reply: "It's OUR Senate, and WE voted for her, so you can take that 'Terra Firma' crap and bugger off back to Arcturus Station!" does have a certain appeal.

A nice sentiment, but it's never going to happen. No political organization ever has ever had the primary goal of "make itself obsolete." Cerberus will, like anyone else, want to stay in power, and that would mean enforcing human dominance.

Perhaps not obsolete exactly.  I might have glossed over a few… minor details.  It's a slogan, a bumper-sticker!  Give me a break!  One could argue that the goal of the military is to make itself obsolete.  To provide for and defend freedom and security in a world that will never be free or secure.  But that's another one of those never-ending struggles you mentioned.

But there have been people who have been willing to forgo personal power or even the direct advancement of their non-personal political agenda for the sake of the greater good.  Those are the kind of people we need running Cerberus.  I'm not entirely convinced TIM is that sort of person.

Modifié par General User, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:48 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm surprised you like a Paragon-themed ending.

This may come as a shock, but that sort of is my canon ending.

[Sebby]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm surprised you like a Paragon-themed ending.

This may come as a shock, but that sort of is my canon ending.

Your Shepard has a noose reserved for his neck for defying Father Harper's demand.

[Xilizhra]

If it does, I have to change some of my Mindoir stuff (I have an asari in the Mindoir Colonial Senate). Though, now that I think about it, a bit where the Alliance says:"You can't have a non-human in your Senate!" and the Mindoinese reply: "It's OUR Senate, and WE voted for her, so you can take that 'Terra Firma' crap and bugger off back to Arcturus Station!" does have a certain appeal.

I think "Alliance" and "humanity" are pretty much considered simultaneous, like with every other government. Where did you come up with the idea otherwise?

Perhaps not obsolete exactly. I might have glossed over a few… minor details. It's a slogan, a bumper-sticker! Give me a break! One could argue that the goal of the military is to make itself obsolete. To provide for and defend freedom and security in a world that will never be free or secure. But that's another one of those never-ending struggles you mentioned.

I don't think any military would ever want to lose power. If they held it, they'd keep trying to come up with new threats... or possibly just launch a coup, if possible.

But there have been people who have been willing to forgo personal power or even the direct advancement of their non-personal political agenda for the sake of the greater good. Those are the kind of people we need running Cerberus. I'm not entirely convinced TIM is that sort of person.

I don't think any of them would want to run Cerberus. I'm also not sure how many people would even join such an organization. It's not the world's worst idea, but the Cerberus command structure needs to be obliterated first, and then maybe the resources can be transferred elsewhere.

This may come as a shock, but that sort of is my canon ending.

The "you" was a general sort.

[Blacklash93]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

And sure, but the fact that they're lives are longer does not mean they have be children for a centuries before finally getting their act together. And so far we have yet to see one of these "Matriarchs" being useful, and on that note I doubt that there are more than a few dozen of them.

Does it? Asari's brains obviously don't develop at the rate of other species. A person with the psychology of a child is still a child no matter how old they are. In the MEverse, it seems pretty clear that the writers intended the Asari to be this way because of their long lifespans, not because they choose to be that way.

And Matriarchs are useful in society. It's in the codex.

[Xilizhra]

laecraft wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm surprised you like a Paragon-themed ending.

It's beautifully rendered, well lit, colors are great, TIM's face shows emotion perfectly, what's not to like? Paragon ending is better done than Renegade one anyway, lighting and all, TIM is better seen.

Then again, the ending where Shepard dies is even better. If only they put that much effort and emotion into an ending most people are more likely to get. Or better yet, put that much effort into the entire process rather than just ending.

I find it quite interesting, personally, that in the Renegade ending, TIM's face is still in deep shadow, while in the Paragon ending, it's quite well-lit. I wonder if it says something about perception...

[General User]

Xilizhra wrote...
I think "Alliance" and "humanity" are pretty much considered simultaneous, like with every other government. Where did you come up with the idea otherwise?

Two places.  Firstly, take this with as big a grain of salt as you like, but it's called "The Systems Alliance" not "The Human Alliance."  Compare that to the Turian Hierarchy or the United Asari Republics, etc.  That may indicate that the Alliance is at least willing to eventually consider the idea of non-human citizens or non-human worlds joining.

And the second thing, reinforcing the first, is that a couple of major Alliance colony worlds (Elysium and Bekenstein) are mentioned as having substantial non-human populations.  Sure it's possible that many (or even all, if I'm honest) of those aliens are temporary guest workers, like an interstellar Dubai.  But it's also possible that some of those aliens are actual immigrants with Alliance citizenship.  In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I choose to believe the latter.

Xilizhra wrote...
I don't think any military would ever want to lose power. If they held it, they'd keep trying to come up with new threats... or possibly just launch a coup, if possible.

I'm talking about a Cinncinnatus, a George Washington.  Admittedly these men are remembered as great largely because for powerful military leaders to give up their power IS extraordinarily rare.  It's a complex thing.  I can think of one example, the 20 July Plot, where the military attempted a coup for the precise purpose of giving up power.

My favorite books, David Weber's Honor Harrington Series (or at Baen's, the publishers, free online library) , explores these issues in depth most notably through the character of Admiral Thomas Theisman.  If you like indepth military sci-fi, I cannot recommend the series highly enough.  They are truly superb.

Xilizhra wrote...
I don't think any of them would want to run Cerberus. I'm also not sure how many people would even join such an organization. It's not the world's worst idea, but the Cerberus command structure needs to be obliterated first, and then maybe the resources can be transferred elsewhere.

I can think of several off the top of my head, without even including Shepard:  Miranda Lawson, Stephen Hackett, David Anderson, Kaiden Alenko, and Jacob Taylor.  (in that order)

Modifié par General User, 15 octobre 2011 - 08:12 .

[Xilizhra]

Two places. Firstly, take this with as big a grain of salt as you like, but it's called "The Systems Alliance" not "The Human Alliance." Compare that to the Turian Hierarchy or the United Asari Republics, etc. That may indicate that the Alliance is at least willing to eventually consider the idea of non-human citizens or non-human worlds joining.

And the second thing, reinforcing the first, is that a couple of major Alliance colony worlds (Elysium and Bekenstein) are mentioned as having substantial non-human populations. Sure it's possible that many (or even all, if I'm honest) of those aliens are temporary guest workers, like an interstellar Dubai. But it's also possible that some of those aliens are actual immigrants with Alliance citizenship. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I choose to believe the latter.

I should have said "synonymous," not "simultaneous." I keep doing that.
It's an interesting point, but I don't see anything mentioned in the fluff of the Alliance itself. Also, the Systems Alliance was named before first contact, and they just didn't seem to have changed their name, while the longer-standing races seem to have done so.

I'm talking about a Cinncinnatus, a George Washington. Admittedly these men are remembered as great largely because for powerful military leaders to give up their power IS extraordinarily rare. It's a complex thing. I can think of one example, the 20 July Plot, where the military attempted a coup for the precise purpose of giving up power.

Fair enough, but that's incredibly reliant on luck.

I can think of several off the top of my head, without even including Shepard: Miranda Lawson, Stephen Hackett, David Anderson, Kaiden Alenko, and Jacob Taylor. (in that order)

Miranda specifically wants human dominance and might not be so enthusiastic about this. Hackett... he seems to me to be that way too. Anderson might do it, but I have very little hope for him living through ME3. Kaidan and Jacob really don't seem like political leader types, either in desire or aptitude, and they don't have the high officer positions to fake it like Anderson.

[Xilizhra]

It's sort of a shame that he can control it like that; I'd have enjoyed thinking of the star color as being something outside of TIM's own control, perhaps being run by a VI or keyed to his own emotional state. It does make me wonder why he had it shifting between both colors for most of the game.

I also disagree with his choice of aesthetics, since the red star doesn't strike me as "deadly" so much as "actively malevolent," and the blue star didn't seem nondescript to me either. I wonder what that says about our differences...

[Graceyn]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Graceyn wrote...

Illusive art, for your pleasure:

Source

Very impressive.

Indeed, and the black and white is a nice symbolic touch.

Thank you guys, I really appreciate it .  I was quite happy with how it turned out.

[FSOAH]

Just played through ME2 for the 8th time or so, and must say I was a bit annoyed due to tha fact that I can't end my relationship with TIM without insulting him. Stupid of BioWare.

[Xilizhra]

I was thinking of the symbolism in a more humanistic way. The blue star may be beautiful, may be deadly, but above all else, is illuminating. It reveals much to those under its light. The red star, on the other hand, only seems to cast light for the purpose of deepening shadows. It seems as though the blue star reveals light, while the red star reveals darkness.

Also, most red stars don't go black hole. If they're red giants, they expand for a while until they finally shrink again into a white dwarf and eventually go out. It still destroys many of the system's planets if they're nearby, but black holes are rather rarer than that.