308 réponses à ce sujet

[Kachie]

nhsk wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

You don't get it at all lol. Tali is established to like opposite gender. That much we know. If she was 'turned gay', it would mean her attraction to opposite gender would've been contradicted, overwritten and retconned with an exclusive attraction to the same gender.

Only this way there would be any implication being gay is a 'choice' as she was turned from straight/bi into gay = exclusively attracted to females. However, she was not at any point established to dislike the same gender. Lack of option to pursue a romance is not an evidence of her attractions (and if you think it is, then she shouldn't be possible to romance by Shep of EITHER gender since there wasn't an option to romance her in ME1).

If Tali is available for s/s romance in ME3 (means she's bisexual means bisexual people like BOTH men and women), it does not contradict anything established previously and there's no change in her sexual orientation because you can't change something that wasn't established in the first place.

Had she declared her dislike of the same-gender, then there would be a change. Since she didn't say anything about it, it's a blank slate and she could've been bisexual all along. That's just how it is. Personal assumptions about a character's sexuality are not part of canon. Some assumed Tali was asexual in ME1, it didn't matter. It was just an interpretation.

More paragraphs please next time

And skip the explaining about what a bisexual vs. a gay is, I know if you didn't notice the irony. But I see your point about missing romance pursue attempts, I hadn't thought of that I must admit.

I just look into recent games, notably DA2 who turned a person clearly not attracted to men into a bisexual, namely Anders, and made everyone who was romancable bisexual. Which I personally still think is wrong (not bisexuality, but that everyone was).

But I see my fears apparently have been laid to rest as Casey H apparently said people wouldn't be retconned into liking their gender, I could have seen f.example Jack being turned bisexual from the DA2 treatment, which WOULD have been a major flaw. Now I have some faith that she won't, she stated she wasn't attracted to girls in ME2.

And my argument was not against Tali in particular, but the fear of the DA2 treatment in general.

I'm all for trying, but if everyone says "yes"... well... nerd rage from my part

Actually, in DA2 Anders, if you take the right conversation path, say he and his friend (the one turned tranquil and you had to kill in the Chantry) that they were lovers. So he was clearly bi from the get go

[Luigitornado]

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

I thought ME was about players playing the role of Shepard, not fanboys choosing the sexual orientation of other characters. Please no.

They've already let them choose who's possibly interested in Shepard *coughs* Tali and Garrus *coughs*

Yeah and they also chose who you can't have a relationship with: Wrex, Grunt, Legion, Samara, Mordin, Kasumi, and Zaeed. 

Hey, Bioware, when I talk to EDI I sense a lot of sexual tension. Let her be a romanacable option....PLEASE?!?!?! 

[mya11]

I want a romance with EDI too !

No it's just a joke !! pff ridiculous this tread

[Kachie]

Luigitornado wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

I thought ME was about players playing the role of Shepard, not fanboys choosing the sexual orientation of other characters. Please no.

They've already let them choose who's possibly interested in Shepard *coughs* Tali and Garrus *coughs*

Yeah and they also chose who you can't have a relationship with: Wrex, Grunt, Legion, Samara, Mordin, Kasumi, and Zaeed. 

Hey, Bioware, when I talk to EDI I sense a lot of sexual tension. Let her be a romanacable option....PLEASE?!?!?! 

-sighs- I repeat, nothing intellegent to say?

[Luigitornado]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Simple solution:
1. Don't turn any old charachters into bi, so fans can stop worrying.
2. Make only new charachters bi (not all, just 1 maybe)
3. We already have enough bi people in Mass Effect anyway (Liara, Samara, Kelly, Shiala) and i also heard Kaidan will probably be bi aswell.

Agreed.

1new is fine, but I suspect we are going to have to deal with silly fanboys wanting their favorite characters to be bisexual, just so they can romance them with a different gender than they normally do. It is neat and tighty that way.

I suspect we will be dealing with people wanting _____ character bisexual right up til the release of the game.

How about we are given the option to reveal that Garrus enjoys flirting with VIs?

[jlb524]

Luigitornado wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

I thought ME was about players playing the role of Shepard, not fanboys choosing the sexual orientation of other characters. Please no.

They've already let them choose who's possibly interested in Shepard *coughs* Tali and Garrus *coughs*

Yeah and they also chose who you can't have a relationship with: Wrex, Grunt, Legion, Samara, Mordin, Kasumi, and Zaeed. 

Hey, Bioware, when I talk to EDI I sense a lot of sexual tension. Let her be a romanacable option....PLEASE?!?!?! 

You missed the point...by a mile.

mya11 wrote...
I want a romance with EDI too !

Hopefully not with the FemShep in your avie...cuz that would be gay.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 juillet 2011 - 06:59 .

[nhsk]

Kachie wrote...

Actually, in DA2 Anders, if you take the right conversation path, say he and his friend (the one turned tranquil and you had to kill in the Chantry) that they were lovers. So he was clearly bi from the get go

That is still something that happens in DA2, and his introduction to the Thedas IP was in Awakening.

And all he basically does in Awakening is talk about girls, never a single mention of a man despite ****** or bi-sexuality being widely accepted in Thedas, so he has no reason to hide it in Awakening.
Thats were I get the "not attracted to men" at all in Awakening, and romances wasn't pursuable in Awakenings so saying it was just because he wasn't attracted to the Warden I don't give a flying hat for, when he is clearly attracted to every female he meets.

Edit: anyway, my "trolling" dragged me into a conversation that is quite good, but I actually have to go for an hour or 2 now, wasn't expecting the convo to develop this way - will check back later to look for replies

Modifié par nhsk, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:00 .

[Kachie]

Wulfram wrote...

Kachie wrote...

Actually, with my FemShep, Tali had made a small pass, with the whole romantic stuff they talked about at one point. Like Tali said something to the sort of (and I can't find a video clip on youtube to prove this sorry..) of if she were to ever link her enviro suite with anyone it would be Shepard. And then she goes back on it, embarrassing herself, and Fem!Shep still makes a pass like, "Are you blushing?" and flusters Tali more.

Relevant part starts at 2:35

It's fairly ambiguous, since linking suits is about trust and acceptance rather than necessarily sex or romance.

Trust, and acceptance can also be apart of a relationship, friendship or otherwise. Don't forget she also states, the most intimate thing we can do is link suites.

[LiquidGrape]

If the possibility of some characters turning out to be bisexual somehow shatters your suspension of disbelief, you need to go outside more.

Or, I don't know, reassess your priorities.

[Blooddrunk1004]

IsaacShep wrote...



So, BW should just submit to illogical aruments?

Oooohhhhh look, somehow all of them just happen to be females!

Illogical?
If any of previous charachters would be bi they would already confessed.
i just can't imagine Garrus suddenly becoming bi considering you couldnt romance him with male, same for Tali. Yes they are all females and sad thing is, is that i always thought male Shepard was straight because of first two games. Instead of implenting this crap bi, i would rather see squadmates (the ones you didnt romance) romancing between themselfes.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:03 .

[Kachie]

nhsk wrote...

Kachie wrote...

Actually, in DA2 Anders, if you take the right conversation path, say he and his friend (the one turned tranquil and you had to kill in the Chantry) that they were lovers. So he was clearly bi from the get go

That is still something that happens in DA2, and his introduction to the Thedas IP was in Awakening.

And all he basically does in Awakening is talk about girls, never a single mention of a man despite ****** or bi-sexuality being widely accepted in Thedas, so he has no reason to hide it in Awakening.
Thats were I get the "not attracted to men" at all in Awakening, and romances wasn't pursuable in Awakenings so saying it was just because he wasn't attracted to the Warden I don't give a flying hat for, when he is clearly attracted to every female he meets.

I will admit, I have yet to play Awakening, so I have no idea what Anders has said, or done in it.

But the fact still remains, whether he mentioned it in Awakening or not, he had a relationship with another man in the circle.

That still makes him bisexual

[jlb524]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
Illogical?
If any of previous charachters would be bi they would already confessed.
i just can't imagine Garrus suddenly becoming bi considering you couldnt romance him with male, same for Tali. Yes they are all females and sad thing is, is that i always thought male Shepard was straight because of first two games.

The problem is that M!Shepard didn't even have the opportunity to pursue Garrus in ME2 (FemShep had to practically harrass him in order to get him to cross the species barrier).

Tali totally flirts with FemShep....but FemShep's evil overlords decided she had to be 'straight' in ME2, so FemShep ignored Tali's advances and proceeded to sexually harrass Jacob instead.

Modifié par jlb524, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:03 .

[shepskisaac]

nhsk wrote...
More paragraphs please next time

Dinner first!

nhsk wrote...
But I see my fears apparently have been laid to rest as Casey H apparently said people wouldn't be retconned into liking their gender, I could have seen f.example Jack being turned bisexual from the DA2 treatment, which WOULD have been a major flaw. Now I have some faith that she won't, she stated she wasn't attracted to girls in ME2.

Casey didn't say anything about retconning since he understands there's no retconning. In order to retcon something, it has to be established in the first place. I understand you may not like it, but if Tali (or anyone else) didn't say "Boys only! I don't like girls!" or turned down advances from someone of the same sex, then she is not cannonized as exclusive heterosexual. That's just how it works, in real life as well. You can sure assume most people will be straight based on the fact the great majority is straight, just like the great majority is right-handed. But until the characters/people clarify it themselves, your/mine assumptions will only be that. Assumptions, not facts.

What Casey said is that not all previous characters will be available for s/s romances in ME3. Not all (means only some) or none at all since "not necessarily true" may mean either "not true in all cases" or "true only in some cases" in the context. Furthermore, the context could actually be entirely different. He may have meant that what is not necessarily true is the part how some magazines think some of the previous characters are straight to begin with. See, interpretation. Only Casey knows exactly what he wanted to say.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:07 .

[LiquidGrape]

Kachie wrote...

I will admit, I have yet to play Awakening, so I have no idea what Anders has said, or done in it.

But the fact still remains, whether he mentioned it in Awakening or not, he had a relationship with another man in the circle.

That still makes him bisexual

I would argue that Anders dropped a hint or two...

[Kachie]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...



So, BW should just submit to illogical aruments?

Oooohhhhh look, somehow all of them just happen to be females!

Illogical?
If any of previous charachters would be bi they would already confessed.
i just can't imagine Garrus suddenly becoming bi considering you couldnt romance him with male, same for Tali. Yes they are all females and sad thing is, is that i always thought male Shepard was straight because of first two games.

But this is YOUR Shepard you are thinking about. Your Shepard may be straight, but not everyone's Shepard is. Shepard isn't just some character Bioware set premesis for. Part of the point in this game was to make Shepard your own character through the choices you make, and how you precieve him/her with how you play them.

For example... My male Shepard is totally straight. Loves the ladies (partly because I'm femal irl and happen to love women). My female Shepard, never thought of her outside of her relationship with Liara, but at least one of my saved fem!Sheps could be considered bisexual. When I first played I had taken a liking to Garrus but she also had a small thing for Samara

[Kachie]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Kachie wrote...

I will admit, I have yet to play Awakening, so I have no idea what Anders has said, or done in it.

But the fact still remains, whether he mentioned it in Awakening or not, he had a relationship with another man in the circle.

That still makes him bisexual

I would argue that Anders dropped a hint or two...

And this hints at what exactly? I'm sorry, but it's lost on me lol

[AngelicMachinery]

Sneak peak of Garrus' new custom

[Menycet]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Illogical?
If any of previous charachters would be bi they would already confessed.

How many people have you met that just walk up to you and confess their sexuality?

[Kachie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Sneak peak of Garrus' new custom

LMAO

[Luigitornado]

Kachie wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

I thought ME was about players playing the role of Shepard, not fanboys choosing the sexual orientation of other characters. Please no.

They've already let them choose who's possibly interested in Shepard *coughs* Tali and Garrus *coughs*

Yeah and they also chose who you can't have a relationship with: Wrex, Grunt, Legion, Samara, Mordin, Kasumi, and Zaeed. 

Hey, Bioware, when I talk to EDI I sense a lot of sexual tension. Let her be a romanacable option....PLEASE?!?!?! 

-sighs- I repeat, nothing intellegent to say?

It would be simply sloppy story telling to make everyone bisexual just for the sake of pleasing a few fans, so they can get it on with their favourite character with their preferred gender.

There should be restrictions just like there have always been restrictions. The expierence is a guided one: us playing as Shepard in a world filled with exsisting characters who seem beilevable (science fiction aside).

I can't believe I need to argue belivabilty in a video game, but making everyone bisexual is just no believable. Sorry.

It would be cool to add a new character as bisexual, or making 1 existing character as bisexual, but anything other than that is just overkill. 

Hell, what is more believable than coming on to someone; with the end result of them shutting you down? I can already happen in ME2, and it should stay like that. It makes for a more reaslistic romancable atmosphere. 

And enough already with this stupid chatter  of "She might have been scared to come on to Shepard at the time," or "not everyone is aware of their sexuality all the time and it can change because of self discovery." Yeah we get it; no one is disupting that.

[Ryzaki]

 Just so this thread is a little less stupid. 

Has some gay in it...Sovvie is technically a "he" right? 

[shepskisaac]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
Illogical?
If any of previous charachters would be bi they would already confessed.

Why? Garrus doesn't confess anything to FemShep either until FemShep suggest sexy time herself. So until ManShep has an option to suggest sexy time to Garrus, we don't know if he would be up for it or not. Simple.

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
i just can't imagine Garrus suddenly becoming bi considering you couldnt romance him with male, same for Tali.

Which is the same logic I could use about romancing Garrus and Tali by straight Shep in the first place. Straight Shep couldn't romance them in ME1, going with your logic that makes them asexual to humans.

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...
Yes they are all females and sad thing is, is that i always thought male Shepard was straight because of first two games. Instead of implenting this crap bi, i would rather see squadmates (the ones you didnt romance) romancing between themselfes.

And I always thought Shepard was Renegade, should it dictate what other players consider their Shepard to be? Should it dictate what options should be available? No.

[Phnx]

Maybe people in the future are more open-minded?!

[Blooddrunk1004]

Menycet wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Illogical?
If any of previous charachters would be bi they would already confessed.

How many people have you met that just walk up to you and confess their sexuality?

Pretty much almost every charachter in Dragon Age 2.