308 réponses à ce sujet

[KawaiiKatie]

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Seems like your whining now,  and using the argument that it doesn't affect the heterosexual majority so it shouldn't be included.

Nope, I'm arguing against these absurd requests/demands based on the fact that it's not worth pandering to such a small portion of players.

I really think that you should read this post, made by a self-proclaimed Straight Male Gamer who complained that Bioware ignored their "main demographic" by "catering" to what he assumed to be 5% of gamers who identify as homosexual. The lead writer for Dragon Age 2 posted a very good response, but my favourite quote from his entire post was this:

And the person who says that the only way to please them is to restrict options for others is, if you ask me, the one who deserves it least. And that's my opinion, expressed as politely as possible.

[mattylee10]

Troodon80 wrote...

The option for a femshep/Tali romance was clearly considered in ME2.

You do realise that it's cut content right, it hasn't been fully removed, but it's still not accessible under normal circumstances?

You know, like the cut content of pretty much any movie, TV series or game ever made?

Just because it was thought about doesn't mean that it should have, or was ever going to be, implemented in the final cut of the game. I think we all remember Hot Coffee for GTA San Andreas. No? Google it if you haven't heard of it. It used ingame content, too. But it was content that wasn't supposed to be seen or heard.

I know its cut content thats why I said 'considered', tone back on the condescension please.
Whats interesting is that this was recorded for a piece of dlc that didn't come out until a year after the main game. They must have known when this was being recorded taht it wasn't going to be used.

[Rockworm503]

Jeez am I the only person here who gets what ReconTeam is talking about?
He's not talking about catering only to the straight majority he's talking about NOT catering to ANYONE!

[Inquisitor Recon]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
I really think that you should read this post,

I really think Mr. Gaider's insanity, while unfortunate, is of no concern to myself and I'd rather have him stay as far from ME3 as possible.

Consider there is nobody asking for LIs of a specific human race or ethnicity, seems the S/Sers are the only ones with this persecution complex.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:40 .

[AngelicMachinery]

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Whining arguing it's all the same on the internet.  You sound like a hypocrite when you spout things about "Gay entitlement" when your primary argument is based on the fact that homosexuals are a minority,  if one argument is based on entitlement so is the other.  Hell,  if you can accept that I might actually be able to take you seriously.

Why is this hard for you to get? Nobody is entitled to everything but Bioware wanted to include some romance options in the game. Considering that this is a minor feature they should aim for the majority of male and female players. If you don't get your m/m options because of this that's a shame and you aren't owed anything special because of your personal tastes.

My personal tastes aren't really coming into affect here,  I've got a bit of captian kirk syndrome myself.  That really is neither here nor there though.  The bolded part of your statement just screams entitlement to me,  the entirety of your argument is based on the fact that straights are in the majority so it's the group that should be catered to.  If that isn't entitlement I don't what is.

[shepskisaac]

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Seems like your whining now,  and using the argument that it doesn't affect the heterosexual majority so it shouldn't be included.

Nope, I'm arguing against these absurd requests/demands based on the fact that it's not worth pandering to such a small portion of players.

It's not worth pandering to such a small portion of anti-gay-romances players as yourself While we're at it, 65% of players roll Soldier class, means the other 5 classes are rolled by approximately 7% of the players. BioWare should remove other classes. Not worth pandering to such a small protion of players.

Rockworm503 wrote...

Jeez am I the only person here who gets what ReconTeam is talking about?
He's not talking about catering only to the straight majority he's talking about NOT catering to ANYONE!

So BW should make Shepard genderless, blend Paragon/Renegade options into one, have one skin color to pick (and hairstyle, and noses), have 1 romance with a genderless NPC. Most importantly, Asari go-go clubs are OUT. Happy now? 

Modifié par IsaacShep, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:45 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
My personal tastes aren't really coming into affect here,  I've got a bit of captian kirk syndrome myself.  That really is neither here nor there though.  The bolded part of your statement just screams entitlement to me,  the entirety of your argument is based on the fact that straights are in the majority so it's the group that should be catered to.  If that isn't entitlement I don't what is.

I see the romances for what they are, a relatively minor feature of the game intended to add some depth to the character interactions. If Bioware were to remove them all tommorow, I would still buy the game anyway. Nor do think Bioware owes me or the average straight gamer romance options. Nobody is entitled to anything, but the fact remains that something like this should aim for the majoirty of players, not every group with unconventional interests. I don't see any more point in pandering to the S/S crowd than I do to those who want to sleep with hanar.

[marshalleck]

lol, ReconTeam still pounding that homophobic drum?

[Inquisitor Recon]

IsaacShep wrote...
It's not worth pandering to such a small portion of anti-gay-romances players as yourself While we're at it, 65% of players roll Soldier class, means the other 5 classes are rolled by approximately 7% of the players. BioWare should remove other classes. Not worth pandering to such a small protion of players.

Completed unrelated when you're talking about content that has already been established and is a core feature of the game.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:54 .

[KawaiiKatie]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Whining arguing it's all the same on the internet.  You sound like a hypocrite when you spout things about "Gay entitlement" when your primary argument is based on the fact that homosexuals are a minority,  if one argument is based on entitlement so is the other.  Hell,  if you can accept that I might actually be able to take you seriously.

Why is this hard for you to get? Nobody is entitled to everything but Bioware wanted to include some romance options in the game. Considering that this is a minor feature they should aim for the majority of male and female players. If you don't get your m/m options because of this that's a shame and you aren't owed anything special because of your personal tastes.

My personal tastes aren't really coming into affect here,  I've got a bit of captian kirk syndrome myself.  That really is neither here nor there though.  The bolded part of your statement just screams entitlement to me,  the entirety of your argument is based on the fact that straights are in the majority so it's the group that should be catered to.  If that isn't entitlement I don't what is.

Exactly this. It's impossible for Bioware to cater to everyone's exact tastes.

Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here.

The issue most same-sex supporters have had with Mass Effect is the blatant lack of same-sex options--particularly male same-sex options. We don't feel "entitled" to it, but we do feel excluded when such content isn't provided. We want to feel like equal. You may view that as entitlement, but when you say that Bioware shouldn't even consider same-sex romances, that they should focus on the majority instead, well, that's what sounds like entitlement to me. It's, at best, majority privilege, or at worst, heterosexual privilege.

And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:48 .

[AngelicMachinery]

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
My personal tastes aren't really coming into affect here,  I've got a bit of captian kirk syndrome myself.  That really is neither here nor there though.  The bolded part of your statement just screams entitlement to me,  the entirety of your argument is based on the fact that straights are in the majority so it's the group that should be catered to.  If that isn't entitlement I don't what is.

I see the romances for what they are, a relatively minor feature of the game intended to add some depth to the character interactions. If Bioware were to remove them all tommorow, I would still buy the game anyway. Nor do think Bioware owes me or the average straight gamer romance options. Nobody is entitled to anything, but the fact remains that something like this should aim for the majoirty of players, not every group with unconventional interests. I don't see any more point in pandering to the S/S crowd than I do to those who want to sleep with hanar.

I would happily buy the game without the inclusion of love interests either,  they are minor, and as long as character interaction with all squadmates were kicked up a notch I'd be quite pleased.  As for the most part romances to me are just a way to get a bit more depth with the character.  I don't think anyone would stop buying the game simply because they weren't included. It sure hasn't stop a good portion of gay males from playing the game has it?  They never had any options in the first place,  and you know what?  That kinda sucks,   you can call it pandering or whatever else you want to label it to trivialize it but I'm glad that they're finally getting included.  

Also, if it's so minor why are you so bothered by it?

[Rockworm503]

IsaacShep wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Seems like your whining now,  and using the argument that it doesn't affect the heterosexual majority so it shouldn't be included.

Nope, I'm arguing against these absurd requests/demands based on the fact that it's not worth pandering to such a small portion of players.

It's not worth pandering to such a small portion of anti-gay-romances players as yourself While we're at it, 65% of players roll Soldier class, means the other 5 classes are rolled by approximately 7% of the players. BioWare should remove other classes. Not worth pandering to such a small protion of players.

Yes lets delete options just to prove a point...  The day people stop replying with their emotions and actually think about what the other person is saying will be the day the internet dies.
We're talking about shoehorning things into the game to cater to the whims of everyone vs getting rid of features just because some people don't use it.
To give you an idea where your argument fails
The first part is game designers reading everything on the forums and making sure EVERYONE is happy (hint no one ends up happy at this point)
the ladder is about features the game designers decided the game would benefit for having.  These 2 are things do not always get together in the same room.  If Bioware listened to what every fan wanted out of the game we'd have a turn based romance game.

[Pups_of_war_76]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Jeez am I the only person here who gets what ReconTeam is talking about?
He's not talking about catering only to the straight majority he's talking about NOT catering to ANYONE!

Oh, everybody recognizes what he's trying to say, we just don't recognize either his right or his ability, as a member of a demographic which is automatically catered to, to lecture about who should and should not be the target of said catering. 

[Rockworm503]

IsaacShep wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Seems like your whining now,  and using the argument that it doesn't affect the heterosexual majority so it shouldn't be included.

Nope, I'm arguing against these absurd requests/demands based on the fact that it's not worth pandering to such a small portion of players.

It's not worth pandering to such a small portion of anti-gay-romances players as yourself While we're at it, 65% of players roll Soldier class, means the other 5 classes are rolled by approximately 7% of the players. BioWare should remove other classes. Not worth pandering to such a small protion of players.

Rockworm503 wrote...

Jeez am I the only person here who gets what ReconTeam is talking about?
He's not talking about catering only to the straight majority he's talking about NOT catering to ANYONE!

So BW should make Shepard genderless, blend Paragon/Renegade options into one, have one skin color to pick (and hairstyle, and noses), have 1 romance with a genderless NPC. Most importantly, Asari go-go clubs are OUT. Happy now? 

No we should just have a line of code and have YOU personally fill in the blanks because it seems like with you its all or nothing.

[shepskisaac]

ReconTeam wrote...
Completed unrelated when you're talking about content that has already been established and is a core feature of the game.

Then they should focus solely on enhancing and adding to the Soldier class in ME3 and leave the other ones unntouched. Why devoting more time to something that panders to such a small group of players?  This way they will devote more time to the content for ReconTeam Unless you happen to play one of the unpopular classes

Rockworm503 wrote...
No we should just have a line of code and have YOU personally fill in the blanks because it seems like with you its all or nothing.

What all or nothing, I don't demand everyone to be bi.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:53 .

[C9316]

Will we ever understand that no one here deserves anything? Just because you're straight doesn't mean you deserve a romance neither do you deserve a romance just because you're gay/bi. These romances are given by bioware and we should be thankful for what we get in the end. If bioware should choose to make some characters gay/bi I'm happy to know I have the option to not persue that. Honestly the last thing we need here is bioware thinking everyone deserves something.

[Rockworm503]

Pups_of_war_76 wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Jeez am I the only person here who gets what ReconTeam is talking about?
He's not talking about catering only to the straight majority he's talking about NOT catering to ANYONE!

Oh, everybody recognizes what he's trying to say, we just don't recognize either his right or his ability, as a member of a demographic which is automatically catered to, to lecture about who should and should not be the target of said catering. 

This is exactly why no one should be catered to.  You meet one persons wants and you'll have to meet EVERYONE's demands or be seen as anti something *rolls eyes*
Am I the only person here who just wants a good game?

[EternalPink]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
Whining arguing it's all the same on the internet.  You sound like a hypocrite when you spout things about "Gay entitlement" when your primary argument is based on the fact that homosexuals are a minority,  if one argument is based on entitlement so is the other.  Hell,  if you can accept that I might actually be able to take you seriously.

Why is this hard for you to get? Nobody is entitled to everything but Bioware wanted to include some romance options in the game. Considering that this is a minor feature they should aim for the majority of male and female players. If you don't get your m/m options because of this that's a shame and you aren't owed anything special because of your personal tastes.

My personal tastes aren't really coming into affect here,  I've got a bit of captian kirk syndrome myself.  That really is neither here nor there though.  The bolded part of your statement just screams entitlement to me,  the entirety of your argument is based on the fact that straights are in the majority so it's the group that should be catered to.  If that isn't entitlement I don't what is.

Exactly this. It's impossible for Bioware to cater to everyone's exact tastes.

Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here.

The issue most same-sex supporters have had with Mass Effect is the blatant lack of same-sex options--particularly male same-sex options. We don't feel "entitled" to it, but we do feel excluded when such content isn't provided. We want to feel like equal. You may view that as entitlement, but when you say that Bioware shouldn't even consider same-sex romances, that they should focus on the majority instead, well, that's what sounds like entitlement to me. It's, at best, majority privilege, or at worst, heterosexual privilege.

And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as "political correctness" if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They're so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance.

I've no problem with same sex romances as long as they fit, take zevran in DA he's introduced to us as a bi sexual character so it makes sense, if Kaidan or Ashley were also introduced to us that way then its cool, with Anders being made bi in DA2 after stating a preference for women in awakening it doesn't fit

[shepskisaac]

EternalPink wrote...
with Anders being made bi in DA2 after stating a preference for women in awakening it doesn't fit

Of course since as we know bisexual men don't like women.

[Rockworm503]

C9316 wrote...

Will we ever understand that no one here deserves anything? Just because you're straight doesn't mean you deserve a romance neither do you deserve a romance just because you're gay/bi. These romances are given by bioware and we should be thankful for what we get in the end. If bioware should choose to make some characters gay/bi I'm happy to know I have the option to not persue that. Honestly the last thing we need here is bioware thinking everyone deserves something.

Finally someone gets it!
Never thought I'd agree with a pony freak but this is the most sensible and best post on here.

[jlb524]

Rockworm503 wrote...

This is exactly why no one should be catered to.  You meet one persons wants and you'll have to meet EVERYONE's demands or be seen as anti something *rolls eyes*
Am I the only person here who just wants a good game?

Heterosexual males are always catered to by default.  ME1 and ME2 features tons of catering to straight males.  You probably don't think of it as 'catering' because you always get it and will always get it.

Therefore, when a member of the 'straight male demographic' says there should be 'no catering' it's laughable...you speak from a privileged position of always getting your catering, so I can't take statements like that seriously.

[Rockworm503]

IsaacShep wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...
Completed unrelated when you're talking about content that has already been established and is a core feature of the game.

Then they should focus solely on enhancing and adding to the Soldier class in ME3 and leave the other ones unntouched. Why devoting more time to something that panders to such a small group of players?  This way they will devote more time to the content for ReconTeam Unless you happen to play one of the unpopular classes

Rockworm503 wrote...
No we should just have a line of code and have YOU personally fill in the blanks because it seems like with you its all or nothing.

What all or nothing, I don't demand everyone to be bi.

Someone says a minor feature in game shouldn't be switched around so much to meet a small group of players.
Your counter is "get rid of stuff already in game since some people don't use it."
If thats not wanting all or nothing I don't know what is.
You want Bisexual romances or you want nothing but soldier.  Ultimatums never benefit anyone.

[EternalPink]

IsaacShep wrote...

EternalPink wrote...
with Anders being made bi in DA2 after stating a preference for women in awakening it doesn't fit

Of course since as we know bisexual men don't like women.

If he made other references within DA then yeah i'd go with that but he doesn't, at no time in DA does he lead you to believe he's bi

[Images]

Naaah don't bother romancing her, just steal one of her spare suits before it gets to the laundry, wear it and use that vibrate function the Illium bar Quarian said she had. Means you get to bask in her scent while the vibes do their thing.


ORRRRRRRRRRR you can just say cést la vie and go for the priiiiiize instead