211 réponses à ce sujet

[AngelicMachinery]

tobynator89 wrote...

I want to keep my masculine femshep thank you very much. Soldiers do not walk around in a dress and high heels, they'd get chewed out by the rest if they did.

Shepard is not a girly girl, end of story.

I agree,  though,  as hard as you try otherwise most woman do have a little sway to their step...  it's because the hip configuration.

[tobynator89]

oh I have nothing against if her walk is a bit more feminine, I don't really care about it though.

Modifié par tobynator89, 10 juillet 2011 - 09:55 .

[Sshodan]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I agree,  though,  as hard as you try otherwise most woman do have a little sway to their step...  it's because the hip configuration.

You are correct about that, the problem is when animators try to make a "feminane" walking animation they always go overbord, so I rather have universal animation than another overdone attempt

[100k]

They need to change the animations, though. The one-size-fits-all animation of male Shepard simply doesn't work for one big reason: because femShep is smaller than he is. It always looks incredibly odd to see femShep sitting with Samara, talking to Miranda, or walking with the other NPCs, because her character model makes her hover, look at another character's chin, or lean against a post from several inches away. I can understand not wanting an overly feminine Shepard. But in my opinion, the fact that her skeleton size makes her hover, clip, or avoid eye contact with the other characters in the game is a GIANT drawback to playing as her. At least with LadyHawke they were trying. In ME2, it just looked cheap to see femShep clipping through a chair.

[100k]

Sshodan wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I agree,  though,  as hard as you try otherwise most woman do have a little sway to their step...  it's because the hip configuration.

You are correct about that, the problem is when animators try to make a "feminane" walking animation they always go overbord, so I rather have universal animation than another overdone attempt

Wouldn't you rather have an animation that emphasizes that femShep is feminine without going overboard? Like femRevan in KOTOR? 

[Tommy6860]

100k wrote...

They need to change the animations, though. The one-size-fits-all animation of male Shepard simply doesn't work for one big reason: because femShep is smaller than he is. It always looks incredibly odd to see femShep sitting with Samara, talking to Miranda, or walking with the other NPCs, because her character model makes her hover, look at another character's chin, or lean against a post from several inches away. I can understand not wanting an overly feminine Shepard. But in my opinion, the fact that her skeleton size makes her hover, clip, or avoid eye contact with the other characters in the game is a GIANT drawback to playing as her. At least with LadyHawke they were trying. In ME2, it just looked cheap to see femShep clipping through a chair.

Then I guess they ahd better get cracking on the DA series animations as well, because those go about the same way. Seriously, I don't see the point other than to cater to over-sexualizing or generalizing a female's strut for eye candy.

[Sshodan]

@ 100k

I haven't played the game but form what I've seen on youtube her animation is rather... stiff. So no I would not like to see Shep walk like that. At last currently her motions look natural to me if a bit of.

Modifié par Sshodan, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:05 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Tommy6860 wrote...

100k wrote...

They need to change the animations, though. The one-size-fits-all animation of male Shepard simply doesn't work for one big reason: because femShep is smaller than he is. It always looks incredibly odd to see femShep sitting with Samara, talking to Miranda, or walking with the other NPCs, because her character model makes her hover, look at another character's chin, or lean against a post from several inches away. I can understand not wanting an overly feminine Shepard. But in my opinion, the fact that her skeleton size makes her hover, clip, or avoid eye contact with the other characters in the game is a GIANT drawback to playing as her. At least with LadyHawke they were trying. In ME2, it just looked cheap to see femShep clipping through a chair.

Then I guess they ahd better get cracking on the DA series animations as well, because those go about the same way. Seriously, I don't see the point other than to cater to over-sexualizing or generalizing a female's strut for eye candy.

Femme hawkes strut is absurd,  I won't argue against that...  but,  the women walk with a sway it's not neccesarily promiment but... it's always there.

[AngryFrozenWater]

100k wrote...

They need to change the animations, though. The one-size-fits-all animation of male Shepard simply doesn't work for one big reason: because femShep is smaller than he is. It always looks incredibly odd to see femShep sitting with Samara, talking to Miranda, or walking with the other NPCs, because her character model makes her hover, look at another character's chin, or lean against a post from several inches away. I can understand not wanting an overly feminine Shepard. But in my opinion, the fact that her skeleton size makes her hover, clip, or avoid eye contact with the other characters in the game is a GIANT drawback to playing as her. At least with LadyHawke they were trying. In ME2, it just looked cheap to see femShep clipping through a chair.

I agree wih you 100%. BW tries to do their best in the cinematics and dialogues. It's time that they tackled the issues you have described. You were very clear and observant in your post. Thanks for that.

[Tommy6860]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

100k wrote...

They need to change the animations, though. The one-size-fits-all animation of male Shepard simply doesn't work for one big reason: because femShep is smaller than he is. It always looks incredibly odd to see femShep sitting with Samara, talking to Miranda, or walking with the other NPCs, because her character model makes her hover, look at another character's chin, or lean against a post from several inches away. I can understand not wanting an overly feminine Shepard. But in my opinion, the fact that her skeleton size makes her hover, clip, or avoid eye contact with the other characters in the game is a GIANT drawback to playing as her. At least with LadyHawke they were trying. In ME2, it just looked cheap to see femShep clipping through a chair.

Then I guess they ahd better get cracking on the DA series animations as well, because those go about the same way. Seriously, I don't see the point other than to cater to over-sexualizing or generalizing a female's strut for eye candy.

Femme hawkes strut is absurd,  I won't argue against that...  but,  the women walk with a sway it's not neccesarily promiment but... it's always there.

  True, they certainly exaggerated the strut in DA2 for the female character, especially the shoulder and hip movements. The shoulder movements look painful almost. Having said that. I still see no issue with the femShep or the females in ME being an issue.

[100k]

Tommy6860 wrote...
Then I guess they ahd better get cracking on the DA series animations as well, because those go about the same way. Seriously, I don't see the point other than to cater to over-sexualizing or generalizing a female's strut for eye candy.

I've never understood this mentality that a woman's natural bone structure and weight distribution automatically = sex appeal. Saying that the only way for femShep to be taken seriously is for her to dress, talk, and act like a man is just as sexist. I can sort of understand that opinions about femHawke, because her animations were a bit too extreme.
HOWEVER
For on the same side, mShep's animations are also overtly masculine. The way he leans, sways, sits, walks with his shoulders - his arms out to his sides, etc etc are all examples of his obvious masculinity (though completely subconscious). Sticking this animation on femShep is essentially saying that women can't be taken seriously, even in the military, unless they are manly. This. Is. Not. True. Even in the military, a woman's natural body build dictates how she walks. 

I don't get why nobody seems to want to find the middle ground anymore! Revan walked and stood like a woman in KOTOR. It wasn't a sexual strut that caused her boobs to bounce and the player to gawk at her ass. It was just a feminine walk. Her arms were drawn slightly in, and her hips were where the weight was. When she stood, she sometimes stood straight, other times leaned to one side (just like male Reven/male Shepard). 

Why is it that so many people on this forum only perceive women seriously if they are--
1. Like Miranda, in whose case she is often considered to be a serious mistake, or...
2. Like Ashley, who is a tomboy?

[Ryzaki]

I wish they'd fix both genders animations. Both genders have this abomination walk/run in ME2. I miss ME1's animations.

[JenAnneMartinson]

Honestly if you gave femshep a tiny bit more sway it would have been easier to look at. to me unless she was in armor she always looked like she was walking like a robot. This is why I like hearing that in ME3 MaleShep moves with more grace and that means if he does then femshep should as well... I hope

[100k]

Sshodan wrote...@ 100k
I haven't played the game but form what I've seen on youtube her animation is rather... stiff. So no I would not like to see Shep walk like that. At last currently her motions look natural to me if a bit of.

Well, obviously her animations are stiff. It's a game from the beginning of the previous generation. 

Look at Nariko though. She is dressed fairly scantly, yet her walking animation doesn't ever drip of sex appeal. She comes off as a woman in a man's world-character. If she can have a satisfying feminine strut (that doesn't make my mouth water) and come off as a very strong female lead, why can't we have something like that for femShepard?

My point is, we don't need to have either the uber sexy supermodel strut, or the very masculine male swagger. It should NOT be difficult AT ALL to find the middle ground. 

[100k]

Nyoka wrote...

100k wrote...
mShep's animations are also overtly masculine. The way he leans, sways, sits, walks with his shoulders - his arms out to his sides, etc etc are all examples of his obvious masculinity (though completely subconscious). Sticking this animation on femShep is essentially saying that women can't be taken seriously, even in the military, unless they are manly.

No, this is saying that you can't take seriously women who don't conform to what you think women should be like.

Thus, you'd rather have women conform to the traits and behavioral patterns typical of men. 

[Sepewrath]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

I prefer my gender neutrality, thank you. For all we know, manShep is the one walking around like femShep. Nothing about how Shepard walks strikes me as particularly male or female.

Makes a good point, you cant apply your standards for what a character should do, maybe some people don't want theirFem Shep walking around with the Hawke switch. And as hard as it is to believe, there are women who sit with their legs open lol, it happens.

[SerWhat?]

Thanks for all the comments so far...its very interesting to me that some people automatically think that sexy or feminine means hips and breasts that sway exagerratedly. I have seen women who just walk normally and are very sexy. I have also seen women who dressed modestly that were very sexy. Look at Miranda herself. She poses while standing still but her walk is not exagerated. It is feminine. Also, some people seem to want some changes as much as I do or else there would not be so many people doing appearance mods. I would simply like female Shepard to be LESS male and less awkward. She is a woman and I don't think to be capable as a hero she has to be manly. As for the feminine wiles, I think that it should have been a RENEGADE option for her. I also think that it would be appropriate for male Shepard in a renegade setting.

[PMC65]

Nyoka wrote...

100k wrote...
mShep's animations are also overtly masculine. The way he leans, sways, sits, walks with his shoulders - his arms out to his sides, etc etc are all examples of his obvious masculinity (though completely subconscious). Sticking this animation on femShep is essentially saying that women can't be taken seriously, even in the military, unless they are manly.

No, this is saying that you can't take seriously women who don't conform to what you think women should be like.

Actually, women in business try and de-feminize themselves because it is deemed "weak" ... and that is wrong. To be honest, I do want my femshep to have some femininity ... If they are no different from maleshep than why the gender option? We could just have "hair/beard" toggle.

I have had many female family & friends in the military & police force ... they wear make-up, dresses & heels and are not mistaken for "sirs". Women can be feminine, have children, cook and still kick a5s!

[Sshodan]

100k wrote...

Well, obviously her animations are stiff. It's a game from the beginning of the previous generation. 

Look at Nariko though. She is dressed fairly scantly, yet her walking animation doesn't ever drip of sex appeal. She comes off as a woman in a man's world-character. If she can have a satisfying feminine strut (that doesn't make my mouth water) and come off as a very strong female lead, why can't we have something like that for femShepard?

My point is, we don't need to have either the uber sexy supermodel strut, or the very masculine male swagger. It should NOT be difficult AT ALL to find the middle ground. 

Than give me a "fresh" example of a walking animation done right on modern technology. I'll believe it's possible only when I see one.
For femShep to look right she hast to have 1. Female walk. 2. "Martial artist" walk, the term may not be correct, sorry English is not my first language, but it's the kind of walking you learn in MA training, wildness survival, and gymnastics, or extreme sports. I believe in depths military training would include that as well.
The first means the hip motion in horizontal plain with no up and down movement that is so favored by animators, and second means correct knee bends, and situationally changing finger/soles first position, which is hard to do naturally without having a living example before your eyes.
When making animations most of the animators use video footage, and usually it's either someone form the studio walking around or a TV footage, so we end up with office worker or model, I have yet to see anything else to say the truth, even for males
I think with male characters the mostly male team can spot the problems with anims, while with ladies, there are usually not enough woman around during the development stage to say "hey guys, that looks uncomfortable".
I'd rather not wince over "when was the last time the animator so a woman walk?" issue and just comfort myself with "universal anim as always" thought - I'm used to shared anims to the point of desensitization, I'm not yet that immune to the failed female ass wiggle/stick figuring playing a girl thing.
And one more thing - it will be strange to see the mannerisms in femShep that I got used to in first 2 games suddenly change. The sad fact is - I'm used to her sitting and walking like she did the first 2 games, having it change suddenly would bother me more than the shared animation

Modifié par Sshodan, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:58 .

[tobynator89]

PMC65 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

100k wrote...
mShep's animations are also overtly masculine. The way he leans, sways, sits, walks with his shoulders - his arms out to his sides, etc etc are all examples of his obvious masculinity (though completely subconscious). Sticking this animation on femShep is essentially saying that women can't be taken seriously, even in the military, unless they are manly.

No, this is saying that you can't take seriously women who don't conform to what you think women should be like.

Actually, women in business try and de-feminize themselves because it is deemed "weak" ... and that is wrong. To be honest, I do want my femshep to have some femininity ... If they are no different from maleshep than why the gender option? We could just have "hair/beard" toggle.

I have had many female family & friends in the military & police force ... they wear make-up, dresses & heels and are not mistaken for "sirs". Women can be feminine, have children, cook and still kick a5s!

I have served with women that were tough and capable in the military (in a combat unit),  the majority were not though. And the ones who were capable had to be more manly than the guys, shaved heads and all. The rest ended up being community bicycles.

Modifié par tobynator89, 10 juillet 2011 - 10:58 .

[ReallyRue]

Pfft. I wish everyone would stop with the masculine/feminine stuff. Anybody would think males and females are as different as salarians and krogan.

[PMC65]

ReallyRue wrote...

Pfft. I wish everyone would stop with the masculine/feminine stuff. Anybody would think males and females are as different as salarians and krogan.

But it is beautiful differences ....

[Sshodan]

ReallyRue wrote...

Pfft. I wish everyone would stop with the masculine/feminine stuff. Anybody would think males and females are as different as salarians and krogan.

Believe it or not, but we are Just take any deferential psychology or anatomy book - we truly are very very different form the inside out starting with perception and skeletal build and ending with lifespans and reaction to stimuli.