211 réponses à ce sujet

[100k]

Captain Crash wrote...Indeed.  Males and females are inheriently different physically. But thats not the core of it. The reason we need seperate animations is because of the rigs and meshes. I dont think people actually realise this the issue and are waving their hand thinking its all about gender and girly physics. Its not.

Exactly what I said coming into this thread. Exactly. 
:mellow:

"They need to change the animations, though. The one-size-fits-all animation of male Shepard simply doesn't work for one big reason: because femShep is smaller than he is. It always looks incredibly odd to see femShep sitting with Samara, talking to Miranda, or walking with the other NPCs, because her character model makes her hover, look at another character's chin, or lean against a post from several inches away. I can understand not wanting an overly feminine Shepard. But in my opinion, the fact that her skeleton size makes her hover, clip, or avoid eye contact with the other characters in the game is a GIANT drawback to playing as her. At least with LadyHawke they were trying. In ME2, it just looked cheap to see femShep clipping through a chair.

Modifié par 100k, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:11 .

[Rogue Unit]

I'd rather they just go back to the animations they used in ME1, please.

[lilco]

Nyoka wrote...

There's no need to emphasize anything. femshep walks fine. That's how I walk and sit, too. I don't shake my ass while walking because I think it's ridiculous. Instead, I move my foot forward, and then I move my other foot. That's how people do the walking.

I had a response for your earlier post but this is just... wow. smh. almost worse than all the ****shaming on this forum.

edit: I don't understand why everyone seems to think femHawke had horrible animations? she was girly and fun, and at least Bioware was trying there. however, I do not want femShep to walk and run like that. quite frankly, I think femShep's animations are allright, although she looks like a gorilla when she's jogging away aboard the Normandy, but that I can deal with.

just give her a normal sitting animation and I'm happy. no more that horrible "knees pointing to different directions and crouching over" stuff.

Modifié par lilco, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:16 .

[100k]

Nyoka wrote...
If you're only comprehension for how women walk is the Victoria Secret show

Says the guy who wants some ass shaking, hips bouncing Shepard because otherwise she would look manly.

"If femShep walks like a supermodel on stage, it will look out of place. 
If femShep walks like a 200 Ib man in armor, it will look out of place.
If femShep walks like a confident, strong willed woman, it will look correct."

I've reported you for flaming my posts. 

[SerWhat?]

Just to fuel the fire a little..Has anyone thought about the fact that there are all those female dancers dressed scantily in the clubs but no male dancers?

[100k]

lknewsome wrote...

Just to fuel the fire a little..Has anyone thought about the fact that there are all those female dancers dressed scantily in the clubs but no male dancers?

Bioware said they were considering that matter. 

[Captain Crash]

Nyoka wrote...

@Captain Crash, I agree with you 100%. I'd support polishing clipping issues and fixing some love scenes where femshep suddenly is a lot taller.

But that's a different issue. What people are saying here is that she lacks femininity and acts manly so they should fix her so she acts like a proper woman (sit up straight and all that). That I'll never support.

Problem is its the same issue entirely. By people saying dont change her (feminity, gender neutrality ect ect) , its strongly gives of an impression to Bioware there isnt an issue because they are seeing "keep her the same and dont change her at all".  

She does need changing and all this side-tracking about gender actions I feel has masked an issue we all want fixed and polished.  

As I said previously too, just because you dont support making her look like a "proper woman", doesnt make everyones else ideas less valid. Thus an endless cycle of arguing which further masks an underlying issue which is getting mixed up with this opinion bickering.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:26 .

[Sepewrath]

100k wrote...
Exactly what I said coming into this thread. Exactly. 
:mellow:

"They need to change the animations, though. The one-size-fits-all animation of male Shepard simply doesn't work for one big reason: because femShep is smaller than he is. It always looks incredibly odd to see femShep sitting with Samara, talking to Miranda, or walking with the other NPCs, because her character model makes her hover, look at another character's chin, or lean against a post from several inches away. I can understand not wanting an overly feminine Shepard. But in my opinion, the fact that her skeleton size makes her hover, clip, or avoid eye contact with the other characters in the game is a GIANT drawback to playing as her. At least with LadyHawke they were trying. In ME2, it just looked cheap to see femShep clipping through a chair.

Yeah maybe you did, but this thread was started about Fem Shep being man like, because she lacks more obvious female generalizations. So its no surprise your comment got lost in that. But even if they had two models, the world is designed for a character of X size, even if they had X and Y models, things like clipping would probably still be an issue. Though I think that's a problem that can be solved without the need of two models, they would just have to refine how the one behaves in the world. For example the romance scenes, like when laying on the bed, a male Shep is on the bottom, while a Fem Shep is on top. I would have check again more critically, but she doesn't seem to hover or anything. They can make it work with the one model.

[Captain Crash]

Sepewrath wrote...

Yeah maybe you did, but this thread was started about Fem Shep being man like, because she lacks more obvious female generalizations. So its no surprise your comment got lost in that. But even if they had two models, the world is designed for a character of X size, even if they had X and Y models, things like clipping would probably still be an issue. Though I think that's a problem that can be solved without the need of two models, they would just have to refine how the one behaves in the world. For example the romance scenes, like when laying on the bed, a male Shep is on the bottom, while a Fem Shep is on top. I would have check again more critically, but she doesn't seem to hover or anything. They can make it work with the one model.

This is what I hope will happen to be honest.  In an ideal world they will have an individual rigs as said. But its very unlikely (time, money ect) so I hope they just spend time looking at scenes where her smaller frame could clip and adjust it. Sure they wont get it 100% right.  But I want that care which given to her in ME1 returned. Like everyone im sure.  

As for altering her look and movement.  Its clearly touchy but Bioware will do what they thinks best.  If she had her own rig it would be far more likely.  As she most likely wont I just hope for this polishing act and try and strike a balance. Something Bioware is fundamentally good at!

[PMC65]

Nyoka wrote...

@Captain Crash, I agree with you 100%. I'd support polishing clipping issues and fixing some love scenes where femshep suddenly is a lot taller.

But that's a different issue. What people are saying here is that she lacks femininity and acts manly so they should fix her so she acts like a proper woman (sit up straight and all that). That I'll never support.

When I think of military women I think of disciplined individuals both physically & mentally.

Poor posture is not what I think of and how both male & female Shep sits may work for college kids not for serious athletes, classical musicians or military personnel who care about their back, performance and/or appearance.

My Shepard is pure soldier who understands the importance of posture so ... yes I cringe when I see her sitting like that. It is not only unattractive but improper sitting.

Posture ... stand up and sit up straight soldier!

[tobynator89]

PMC65 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

@Captain Crash, I agree with you 100%. I'd support polishing clipping issues and fixing some love scenes where femshep suddenly is a lot taller.

But that's a different issue. What people are saying here is that she lacks femininity and acts manly so they should fix her so she acts like a proper woman (sit up straight and all that). That I'll never support.

When I think of military women I think of disciplined individuals both physically & mentally.

Poor posture is not what I think of and how both male & female Shep sits may work for college kids not for serious athletes, classical musicians or military personnel who care about their back, performance and/or appearance.

My Shepard is pure soldier who understands the importance of posture so ... yes I cringe when I see her sitting like that. It is not only unattractive but improper sitting.

Posture ... stand up and sit up straight soldier!

You have very odd perceptions of what being a soldier is like.

www.youtube.com/watch

[100k]

Nyoka wrote...But that's a different issue. What people are saying here is that she lacks femininity and acts manly so they should fix her so she acts like a proper woman (sit up straight and all that). That I'll never support.

Liara's or Kasumi's physical movements are great, and they are (so far as I know) skeleton'd by women. Why can't femShep move like that? Are you saying that they move like slvts? 

I'll end my conversation with you by saying this:

When I said "emphasizing the female form", I did NOT mean they should pull something like this--


I was thinking something more like this --

or this--

or like this--


None of these women are slvtty, supermodel-ish, ass shaking women. But they all have the movements appropriate with their gender. Probably because they are motion captured by a woman. I'm not saying femShep should copy them--no. But I am saying that she should move more like them. 

Why? 

Because the male skeleton for male Shep is designed for male Shep. In ME2, they tried to share the animations of a man with a woman, and the result is that femShep's character model clipped, didn't make eye contact, even had to "grow" for some interactions. It is meant for the male PC.

You agreed that this needs to change, because maleShep's animations cause clipping for femShep. Then why not have two sets of animations in the game, one for femShep? You need to change it either way...why not do it right. 

Once again, look at the pictures of the women I posted. Are any of them like the super model in your video? 

Modifié par 100k, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:54 .

[100k]

MaleShep "emphasizes the male form" whenever he walks, leans, sits, stands, etc. It's simply a fact.
Why shouldn't femShep, who is superbly voiced, acted, and loved, get the same care and attention to detail as the default? Why should she get the recycled animations that are proven not to work? Isn't she worth as much as Vanderloo Shep?

Modifié par 100k, 11 juillet 2011 - 12:54 .

[Volus Warlord]

Bigger boobs. lol

Never played much as femshep.

[SerWhat?]

100k wrote...

MaleShep "emphasizes the male form" whenever he walks, leans, sits, stands, etc. It's simply a fact.
Why shouldn't femShep, who is superbly voiced, acted, and loved, get the same care and attention to detail as the default? Why should she get the recycled animations that are proven not to work? Isn't she worth as much as Vanderloo Shep?

Thank you!  I couldn't have said it better myself! 

[AngelicMachinery]

100k wrote...

 

That game was so awful and yet... so awesome.  I'm still not sure what I think of it.

[PMC65]

100k wrote...

MaleShep "emphasizes the male form" whenever he walks, leans, sits, stands, etc. It's simply a fact.
Why shouldn't femShep, who is superbly voiced, acted, and loved, get the same care and attention to detail as the default? Why should she get the recycled animations that are proven not to work? Isn't she worth as much as Vanderloo Shep?

Femshep should get her own animations ... if I could have her sit like Aria ...



Actually, I would love to play Aria ... she is a strong female (okay, okay mono-gendered) character that keeps her femininity at the same time. She isn't prissy but she also isn't manly.

[tobynator89]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

100k wrote...

 

That game was so awful and yet... so awesome.  I'm still not sure what I think of it.

It's simply refuge in audacity, its so offensive that it seizes to be so.

It's the same reason you can't make fun of clowns.

[Golden Owl]

ReallyRue wrote...

I would hate a mission that involved Shepard using her "feminine wiles" to achieve her goal.

Edit: Funny no one ever argues for maleShep to have "masculine wiles".

Actually I would like to see my manShep do that...he maybe romanceless, but it doesn't mean he is not interested in women.

[Golden Owl]

lknewsome wrote...

I don't know about anybody else but I play female most of the time.  I understand that it is probably easier and quicker programming for female and male Shepard to have the same mannerisms etc. but it really gets on my nerves that she sits walks and dresses just like male Shep..  I can deal with the walk(it's a little more generic) but the way she sits and moves are much the same as male that its kind of jarring.  Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them. What does everyone else think?  Give her more femininity.  Save the world as a real woman not a male version of a woman...

I agree with you, I have only run one femShep game, but in ME1 I felt she had more feminine mannerisms, where as in ME2 she is too masculine....ManShep is bad enough with his gorilla limp (I hope BW fixes that)...but on femShep it looked even worse, especially in the Kasumi dress....If BW can have the female NPC's walking and running without looking like over done hookers, they can do it for femShep too.....same goes for body language...FemShep keep your knees together PLEASE!...I also liked the hand on the hip pose femShep had in ME1, it's not there in ME2.

[D.Kain]

What if want male Shepards animations to be more feminine?

[100k]

Nyoka wrote...
*and then proceeds to post three gender neutral pictures*

Men can raise their left hand, sit with their hands on their belly (as for crossed legs, TIM crosses them) and...just stand around, I guess? There's nothing gender-specific about their posturing there. If gender neutrality is what you want, I'm right there with you.

And they are different things. I can walk and sit and lean and stand naturally in a way that you consider manly (thanks) and I don't think I have clipping issues :happy: femshep can do that, too.

I can hear it... "femshep needs to reach a higher point with her arm or look at a higher point because she's shorter than manshep... therefore, we need to make her bounce her hips when walking and make her sit up straight". Hmmm. Yeah.

Ash is a woman. So there is no gender neutrality there. Aria and Tela aren't technically "women", but they are feminine in the sense of their physical appearance, and are blocked by women. 
:huh:

Mass Effect isn't typically divided up into male skeletons and gender neutral skeletons. It is divided up into male skeletons and female skeletons. To ignore the female skeleton in favor of a "gender neutral" skeleton is sexist. 

I'm not saying that men can't be gender neutral or feminine. I'm not saying that. TIM sits with his legs crossed. This isn't a gender specific animation. Male Shepard could sit like that, and it would look fine. However, TIM is blocked by a man who does his motion capture, and it shows. 

Shep's blocking is NOT gender neutral. It is strictly blocked by a man, and comes off as "manly". Granted, there are a few times when there are differences--like femShep sitting with her legs together at the end of LOTSB, but 90% of the time her blocking is done by a man.

But my question still stands. Why shouldn't femShepard get the same attention to detail?

[100k]

Golden Owl wrote...If BW can have the female NPC's walking and running without looking like over done hookers, they can do it for femShep too.....same goes for body language...

/end.