211 réponses à ce sujet

[100k]

PMC65 wrote...Actually, I would love to play Aria ... she is a strong female (okay, okay mono-gendered) character that keeps her femininity at the same time. She isn't prissy but she also isn't manly.

/thread.

Modifié par 100k, 11 juillet 2011 - 02:26 .

[Fhaileas]

Female Shephard's movements were perfectly fine and fluid in ME1. ME2 somehow managed to mess that up as well. The only thing that needed amending was the swan neck issue. Yes, there was that embarrassing Basic Instinct moment with the splayed legs -- but I could put that down to an unconscious quirk, unused as she is to wearing an attire of that nature. Otherwise my Fae Shephard looked suitably feminine (as much as any woman who is a soldier would be) without appearing to be a delicate little flower playing at being a "Soldier Barbie" archetype.

I don't even use any sort of makeup on my Shephard because I consider it to be quite incongruous for a professional, seasoned soldier to be overtly concerned about their vanity and "femininity" while on duty.

Modifié par Fhaileas, 11 juillet 2011 - 02:48 .

[Golden Owl]

100k wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...If BW can have the female NPC's walking and running without looking like over done hookers, they can do it for femShep too.....same goes for body language...

/end.

Actually that was in reference to earlier posts thank you....people commenting as to how animated female characters tend to have an over done swing of the hips....The female NPC's in ME move quite well, feminine with out being over the top (no hookerish over emphasise)...FemShep would look good and natural if she moved like the female NPC's in ME.

[100k]

Golden Owl wrote...

100k wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...If BW can have the female NPC's walking and running without looking like over done hookers, they can do it for femShep too.....same goes for body language...

/end.

Actually that was in reference to earlier posts thank you....people commenting as to how animated female characters tend to have an over done swing of the hips....The female NPC's in ME move quite well, feminine with out being over the top (no hookerish over emphasise)...FemShep would look good and natural if she moved like the female NPC's in ME.

Exactly. 

Anyone who only thinks "feminine" = Victoria's Secret model is just as sexist (if not more) than the people they condemn.

[1136342t54_]

Well like I said earlier in this thread. I have a problem with the walking animation of both male and female sheps. Just change it back to ME1 and I'll be happy.

[phantomdragoness]

I actually wouldn't mind if BW made fem!Shep a little more feminine - I guess like in DA2? At least keep her legs together if she decides to wear a dress...please...

Then again, if they kept it gender-neutral, that's fine.

EDIT: Actually...I agree with the above poster. DO THAT.

Modifié par phantomdragoness, 11 juillet 2011 - 03:27 .

[Golden Owl]

100k wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

100k wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...If BW can have the female NPC's walking and running without looking like over done hookers, they can do it for femShep too.....same goes for body language...

/end.

Actually that was in reference to earlier posts thank you....people commenting as to how animated female characters tend to have an over done swing of the hips....The female NPC's in ME move quite well, feminine with out being over the top (no hookerish over emphasise)...FemShep would look good and natural if she moved like the female NPC's in ME.

Exactly. 

Anyone who only thinks "feminine" = Victoria's Secret model is just as sexist (if not more) than the people they condemn.

Seconded.

[idoless24]

I like Femshep the way she is.

[Grunk]

A quick replay before reading the thread: I like LadyHawke's stroll and had no issue with it playing as a Warrior. That's more how you feel about warriors, sounds like.

Second, I think if they're gonna let FemShep have a dress, they need to consider that. I was weirded out seeing FemShep sit like a dude. Other than that, I'd like to keep them as close as possible.

EDIT TO ADD://

Captain Crash wrote...

Indeed.  Males and females are inheriently different physically. But thats not the core of it. The reason we need seperate animations is because of the rigs and meshes. I dont think people actually realise this the issue and are waving their hand thinking its all about gender and girly physics. Its not.


Im all for gender neutrality but some people are using these two words to cloud an obvious issue.  The fact is as stated previously using a rig intended for a male causes issues such as clipping and other problems.  If femshep frame and size were the same as Male Shepards there wouldn't be an issue.  But she isnt the same shape and size so there were problems in ME2 with it.  She uses a mesh different to the animation rig! Fact. 


By saying keep them the same for "gender neutrality" it simply says to Bioware "there isnt a problem so dont fix it". Sorry there were pleanty of obvious problems in ME2.   In an ideal world both male and female Shepard would have their own rig.  Somehow I dont think they will.  However as I said, saying there isnt a problem with her animations gives the illusion to Bioware everything is fine.  It isnt, she doesnt have a proportional mesh/rig compared to her male counterpart so clipping can easily happen.   Polish will help this to some degree, but it doesnt address the issue.   


Just because she needs a rig doesnt mean it will strip away any gender neutrlity. It wont bother me if the motions similar for both genders.  Its needed to fix an obvious flaw in her animation design. That of proportions and size. Without it her frame will hover and clip in cutscenes like in ME2.  Care was shown in ME1 to femsheps rig.  Its no longer evident and that what bugs me!

I agree. This isn't a matter of sexism. Even if she was to run the same, etc, we should have a different skeleton that accounts for whether FemShep wears a dress or is dealing with someone taller. I don't think there's a problem acknowledging difference and I don't think that treating someone the same as another person is fair (ie, if ManShep is taller than FemShep, why should they share the same animations completely? That makes it seem to me that the animation team/everyone making ME didn't give a damn about anyone who wants to play a FemShep). Differences are fine, not scary or negative. What we need to do is acknowledge difference and deal with it, not try to pretend it doesn't exist and put everything against the ruler of the majority (which in this case is ManShep).

Not sure if I've lost the subject and veered into my own interest. I seem to only post after drinking and reading Ishmael Reed/Amiri Baraka/James Wheldon Johnson and so on. In any case, I support FemShep having a different rig, if only for clipping and line of sight (in conversation) issues. Plus not wearing a dress like a dude.

Modifié par Grunk, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:30 .

[Good Chaos7]

lknewsome wrote...

I don't know about anybody else but I play female most of the time.  I understand that it is probably easier and quicker programming for female and male Shepard to have the same mannerisms etc. but it really gets on my nerves that she sits walks and dresses just like male Shep..  I can deal with the walk(it's a little more generic) but the way she sits and moves are much the same as male that its kind of jarring.  Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them. What does everyone else think?  Give her more femininity.  Save the world as a real woman not a male version of a woman...

  I should be offended but at the same time these threads make me laugh!  Look.. just because someone is a woman doesn't mean they have to act like a princess or look like Barbie...
I'm a woman, & guess what..  I actually sit just like she does in the game..How I dress depends on the situation, How I walk..? Never really paid attention but I know with certainty I don't walk like I'm going down a runway..

Altough, the one improvement I'd like to see is hair styles.. that's about it..

Modifié par Good Chaos7, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:16 .

[Fhaileas]

^ Yep! Same here, except that I sit like a "prim and proper" lady  when wearing a dress, and I do not walk as much as sashay. 

Modifié par Fhaileas, 11 juillet 2011 - 07:59 .

[Nicodemus]

The animations themselves were not too bad, just awkward. If you look closely you'll find that a lot of ladies sit in different ways, some prim and proper others not. It depends on the character of the lady, the same could be said for men, older generations of men sit with a straight back and discipline, younger men slouch.

Would I like to see the animations of Femshep taken back to the ME1 model, yes, but only because the animations of both Sheps were vastly superior to the generic model we had in ME2.

[M3cHr3p71l]

FemShep movements & animations are fine, I totally agree with @Nyoka. What really bothers me is the lack of implementation of these moves in FemShep (so we see unnatural, forced anim. and irritating clipping issue) because she has apparently a different physique (smaller body) than her counterpart as @Cpt. Crash well says.
If BW want to change the animations, ok, always they are PRAGMATIC, not FASHION/ESTHETIC oriented animations. So stop saying Shep should move "more feminine" (that is a personal opinion I don't share); simply she must move in the better way to survive in a dangerous situation. In casual situations is other issue. Each one has a different opinion (altho I don't see FemShep moving like Miri; it would be the worst nightmare), but as devs have to satisfy everybody, the best is that also continues with the neutral way (no men way, N-E-U-T-R-A-L way)

[SerWhat?]

Tell me something??? What do you think the reaction of people would be if the situation were reversed and the male Shepard walk was felt to be distinctly feminine by a lot of people? Anyone?

[Good Chaos7]

lknewsome wrote...

Tell me something??? What do you think the reaction of people would be if the situation were reversed and the male Shepard walk was felt to be distinctly feminine by a lot of people? Anyone?

Only the most Bad Ass Fem walkin' man Eva!!<3
But again Being a woman doesn't = sway those hips baby!!

I'm a woman & I don't walk like that..

[SerWhat?]

Good Chaos7 wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

Tell me something??? What do you think the reaction of people would be if the situation were reversed and the male Shepard walk was felt to be distinctly feminine by a lot of people? Anyone?

Only the most Bad Ass Fem walkin' man Eva!!<3
But again Being a woman doesn't = sway those hips baby!!

I'm a woman & I don't walk like that..

If you look at my previous entries you'll see I don't want the swaying either.  Just more feminine, or not manly.  I don't walk like a sexpot either but as a gameplayer who pays good money for the game I will give voice to my preferences.  If there are not any people who feel the same way then ok.  I notice you pretty much ignored the question of how you would feel if male Shepard walked with the "sway" and had feminine movements. 

[AngelicMachinery]

When walking the more lateral position of the hip joint in the male means that the leg can move forwards and backwards in one plane. On the other hand, the more anterior angled position of the hip socket in the female means that the leg must swing forward and inward, then as it moves back the femoral head must pivot slightly so that the leg can swing back in another plane.

Seriously, some of you people really shouldn't be so quick to call women who sway they're hips "****s" or something similar. A lot of you are making the claim that "You don't sway your hips" when it is in fact almost impossible for you to not to unless you are remaining concious of every step you take. It's the way the female body is built, and there is nothingsexual about the feminine gait unless it is amplified. We're not talking about the extreme model strut or something similar we're talking about the slightest swing from side to side.

Modifié par AngelicMachinery, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:16 .

[Addai]

I liked female Hawke's model and movement in DA2. In ME I never wear the dress because of the wide-legged sitting (which DA2 also had), but I prefer Shepard to be a bit more butch in her movement and mannerisms. It more befits a space marine who spends most of her time in armor.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:09 .

[Golden Owl]

Good Chaos7 wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

I don't know about anybody else but I play female most of the time.  I understand that it is probably easier and quicker programming for female and male Shepard to have the same mannerisms etc. but it really gets on my nerves that she sits walks and dresses just like male Shep..  I can deal with the walk(it's a little more generic) but the way she sits and moves are much the same as male that its kind of jarring.  Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them. What does everyone else think?  Give her more femininity.  Save the world as a real woman not a male version of a woman...

  I should be offended but at the same time these threads make me laugh!  Look.. just because someone is a woman doesn't mean they have to act like a princess or look like Barbie...
I'm a woman, & guess what..  I actually sit just like she does in the game..How I dress depends on the situation, How I walk..? Never really paid attention but I know with certainty I don't walk like I'm going down a runway..

Altough, the one improvement I'd like to see is hair styles.. that's about it..

I am also a woman (an older woman)...I do not walk like a model or a hooker, but neither do I walk like a man...I find it more offensive that femSheps animations make her look butch, there is nothing wrong with walking like a woman, it does not make a woman look weaker or lesser....skeletally speaking our bodies rather insist on our own way of moving anyway.

[Ophiskc]

I prefer they let her the way she's now, over this 2 games it became for me just a part more of her personality, to change her now would be just a cheap fanservice in my eyes, and we have enough of that already (Miranda, change on Ashley, i hope they dont mess up Jack).
If BW alter this there are always chances that they screw up completely Femshep at the end

[Good Chaos7]

Golden Owl wrote...

Good Chaos7 wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

I don't know about anybody else but I play female most of the time.  I understand that it is probably easier and quicker programming for female and male Shepard to have the same mannerisms etc. but it really gets on my nerves that she sits walks and dresses just like male Shep..  I can deal with the walk(it's a little more generic) but the way she sits and moves are much the same as male that its kind of jarring.  Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them. What does everyone else think?  Give her more femininity.  Save the world as a real woman not a male version of a woman...

  I should be offended but at the same time these threads make me laugh!  Look.. just because someone is a woman doesn't mean they have to act like a princess or look like Barbie...
I'm a woman, & guess what..  I actually sit just like she does in the game..How I dress depends on the situation, How I walk..? Never really paid attention but I know with certainty I don't walk like I'm going down a runway..

Altough, the one improvement I'd like to see is hair styles.. that's about it..

I am also a woman (an older woman)...I do not walk like a model or a hooker, but neither do I walk like a man...I find it more offensive that femSheps animations make her look butch, there is nothing wrong with walking like a woman, it does not make a woman look weaker or lesser....skeletally speaking our bodies rather insist on our own way of moving anyway.

LOL Does that mean I'm  Butch HAHAHAHA! meh were all snowflakes...
I hope I'm not TOO old I'm just 29.

[Mims]

Better animations won't make Femshep look like a princess. Done right, you won't even notice them. They'll just look natural. You press forward, and she runs. Women carry themselves differently, no matter how 'butch' they are.

Of course, I also understand the fear. Because when developers hear "we want Femshep to run like a woman" they read it as, "okay, we'll need to make it noticeably different." So it gets exaggerated, like Lady-Hawke's ice skating run.

We shouldn't notice anything about the run cycle. If it's coming across as too masculine, or too feminine, something has failed. They just need subtle tweaks in the way Femshep carries herself. So long as they do it naturally, it won't be apparent. We're used to seeing women run.

Modifié par Mims, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:47 .

[Golden Owl]

Good Chaos7 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Good Chaos7 wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

I don't know about anybody else but I play female most of the time.  I understand that it is probably easier and quicker programming for female and male Shepard to have the same mannerisms etc. but it really gets on my nerves that she sits walks and dresses just like male Shep..  I can deal with the walk(it's a little more generic) but the way she sits and moves are much the same as male that its kind of jarring.  Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them. What does everyone else think?  Give her more femininity.  Save the world as a real woman not a male version of a woman...

  I should be offended but at the same time these threads make me laugh!  Look.. just because someone is a woman doesn't mean they have to act like a princess or look like Barbie...
I'm a woman, & guess what..  I actually sit just like she does in the game..How I dress depends on the situation, How I walk..? Never really paid attention but I know with certainty I don't walk like I'm going down a runway..

Altough, the one improvement I'd like to see is hair styles.. that's about it..

I am also a woman (an older woman)...I do not walk like a model or a hooker, but neither do I walk like a man...I find it more offensive that femSheps animations make her look butch, there is nothing wrong with walking like a woman, it does not make a woman look weaker or lesser....skeletally speaking our bodies rather insist on our own way of moving anyway.

LOL Does that mean I'm  Butch HAHAHAHA! meh were all snowflakes...
I hope I'm not TOO old I'm just 29.

You probably have quite a fine walk, but you wouldn't know it, cos you can't see your own rear end in action.........

Sadly for me, my years are mounting and what once looked fine is probably sagging......<_<......

[LadyCass]

This study into walking animations: http://www.biomotion.../BMLwalker.html is pretty neat and gives a really nice look at the differences between male and female walks. I suspect most people sit closer to the centre of the slider, whereas the opposite ends are too much and I wouldn't suggest them. A nudge one way or the other however would look pretty natural. Even better would be a slider like this in the character creation section (but that would be too crazy...)

Hint: You can check "Lines" and left-click and drag the rig to another angle. It slides back to the head-on viewport after a minute or so though.

Modifié par LadyCass, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:09 .