211 réponses à ce sujet

[100k]

LadyCass wrote...

This study into walking animations: http://www.biomotion.../BMLwalker.html is pretty neat and gives a really nice look at the differences between male and female walks. I suspect most people sit closer to the centre of the slider, whereas the opposite ends are too much and I wouldn't suggest them. A nudge one way or the other however would look pretty natural. Even better would be a slider like this in the character creation section (but that would be too crazy...)

Hint: You can check "Lines" and left-click and drag the rig to another angle. It slides back to the head-on viewport after a minute or so though.

This is WONDERFUL!

Seriously folks. Check this thing out. It perfectly details the difference between how men walk, and how women walk -- not based on social cues, but on physical differences! I'm not saying that femShep has to be 100% female (if they used this rig/meshing). Just that she should be more "feminine". There isn't anything wrong with that. 

:o:o:o:o:happy::happy::happy:

[Weltea]

lknewsome wrote...

Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them.

Um...eeew!?!
If you say that's your definition if feminity then I feel very sorry for you.
I'm sorry but the female Shepard is just a capable as the male one so why would she have to resort to that? I'd be fine with (male or female) Shepard charming the guy,but just because she's a woman FemSheps only way of getting what she wants is using her body?!?
Not to mention that people who work for her would see that,so why would any of her crewmates still respect her after that?

I feel like I'm overreacting a little here but reading something like that really pisses me off. It's really no wonder that women get seen as weak and worth less than men when people try to sell that as "feminity"!

[PrinceLionheart]

If DA2 is any indication, FemShep should have her own walking animation.

[SerWhat?]

Weltea wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them.

Um...eeew!?!
If you say that's your definition if feminity then I feel very sorry for you.
I'm sorry but the female Shepard is just a capable as the male one so why would she have to resort to that? I'd be fine with (male or female) Shepard charming the guy,but just because she's a woman FemSheps only way of getting what she wants is using her body?!?
Not to mention that people who work for her would see that,so why would any of her crewmates still respect her after that?

I feel like I'm overreacting a little here but reading something like that really pisses me off. It's really no wonder that women get seen as weak and worth less than men when people try to sell that as "feminity"!

This is just a game and you have a right to your opinion.  You probably aren't a fan of James Bond 007( and neither am I) however, I do believe that whats good for the goose is good for the gander.This would have been a good choice for a renegade Shepard. I'm sorry this made you angry but you shouldn't take it personally.  By the way, I don't think this is my version of femininity any more than it is yours.  I never referenced that as a reason to do this.  It was just an idea that I thought up.

[Weltea]

lknewsome wrote...

Weltea wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them.

Um...eeew!?!
If you say that's your definition if feminity then I feel very sorry for you.
I'm sorry but the female Shepard is just a capable as the male one so why would she have to resort to that? I'd be fine with (male or female) Shepard charming the guy,but just because she's a woman FemSheps only way of getting what she wants is using her body?!?
Not to mention that people who work for her would see that,so why would any of her crewmates still respect her after that?

I feel like I'm overreacting a little here but reading something like that really pisses me off. It's really no wonder that women get seen as weak and worth less than men when people try to sell that as "feminity"!

This is just a game and you have a right to your opinion.  You probably aren't a fan of James Bond 007( and neither am I) however, I do believe that whats good for the goose is good for the gander.This would have been a good choice for a renegade Shepard. I'm sorry this made you angry but you shouldn't take it personally.  By the way, I don't think this is my version of femininity any more than it is yours.  I never referenced that as a reason to do this.  It was just an idea that I thought up.

Actually you say "Give her more feminity" right after that quote so I assumed that was the reason
Also,sorry that I was basically hating on your idea (although I still think it's not thought through,sorry it's just that I for one was very glad that there were no big differences in which most people treated ManShep and FemShep...
Also, I am a very big fan of James Bond I'm guessing you brought that up because of the women in the Bond movies? I don't mind,actually I enjoy them but that's because I'm watching for James Bond. It's different than playing a game with a female protagonist...
Anyway,I hope I didn't come across as to b****y

[Avilia]

If the alternative is that abomination we saw in DA2, I'd prefer neutrality with a bit of tweaking on the mesh.

Besides, the odd 'uber masculine' move by fem-shep when she's being particularly grunty adds humour to the situation.

[Sepewrath]

100k wrote...
Because the male skeleton for male Shep is designed for male Shep. In ME2, they tried to share the animations of a man with a woman, and the result is that femShep's character model clipped, didn't make eye contact, even had to "grow" for some interactions. It is meant for the male PC.

You agreed that this needs to change, because maleShep's animations cause clipping for femShep. Then why not have two sets of animations in the game, one for femShep? You need to change it either way...why not do it right. 
 

Yeah but there is only one Ashley and one Vasir, so they can get more detailed work done, even if Shepard had two different models, it still would be given a "wide berth" to support the player input on the model. For example, if Shepard never got that dress, it wouldn't be a big deal if she sitting with her legs open. Lots of women sit with their legs open when wearing pants, I mean what the hell is going to happen lol? But it would be odd to see her sitting like she's wearing a dress all the time, so design work would have to be in a middle ground.

How Shepard moves would also depend on what their wearing, taking cover in a dress would be rather cumbersome I would assume, but if she were wearing pants, she could really sink down into it, because of the added flexibilty. What can you do about that. Her movement would also be dictated by what she has equipped, but obviously, their not going to 20 different walking animations based on what she has on. We will still have to settle for an extremely general set of animations. I think the best people can hope for is for them to solve the clipping issues, but the de-generalization of the animations would be a never ending task for them.

[SerWhat?]

Weltea wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

Weltea wrote...

lknewsome wrote...

Also, I think it would have been nice in the Kasumi DLC if Shepard could have acted a little sexier and and seduced the bad guy to get what she needs.  Knock him out before anything happens(in the bedroom) then go look for the box.  He can then wake up and go after them.

Um...eeew!?!
If you say that's your definition if feminity then I feel very sorry for you.
I'm sorry but the female Shepard is just a capable as the male one so why would she have to resort to that? I'd be fine with (male or female) Shepard charming the guy,but just because she's a woman FemSheps only way of getting what she wants is using her body?!?
Not to mention that people who work for her would see that,so why would any of her crewmates still respect her after that?

I feel like I'm overreacting a little here but reading something like that really pisses me off. It's really no wonder that women get seen as weak and worth less than men when people try to sell that as "feminity"!

This is just a game and you have a right to your opinion.  You probably aren't a fan of James Bond 007( and neither am I) however, I do believe that whats good for the goose is good for the gander.This would have been a good choice for a renegade Shepard. I'm sorry this made you angry but you shouldn't take it personally.  By the way, I don't think this is my version of femininity any more than it is yours.  I never referenced that as a reason to do this.  It was just an idea that I thought up.

Actually you say "Give her more feminity" right after that quote so I assumed that was the reason
Also,sorry that I was basically hating on your idea (although I still think it's not thought through,sorry it's just that I for one was very glad that there were no big differences in which most people treated ManShep and FemShep...
Also, I am a very big fan of James Bond I'm guessing you brought that up because of the women in the Bond movies? I don't mind,actually I enjoy them but that's because I'm watching for James Bond. It's different than playing a game with a female protagonist...
Anyway,I hope I didn't come across as to b****y

No offense taken(or given, I hope).  As I said it is just a game and I love it.  I just got left feeling a little dissatisfied with the way the game is set up for the female Shepard.  Maybe it's just an age thing.  I'm not young like most of the players. I felt she was not given near as much attention as male Shepard and all the games seem to be that way.  Heck, it wasn't so long ago that you couldn't ever even play as a female. 

[100k]

Sepewrath wrote...Yeah but there is only one Ashley and one Vasir, so they can get more detailed work done, even if Shepard had two different models, it still would be given a "wide berth" to support the player input on the model. For example, if Shepard never got that dress, it wouldn't be a big deal if she sitting with her legs open. Lots of women sit with their legs open when wearing pants, I mean what the hell is going to happen lol? But it would be odd to see her sitting like she's wearing a dress all the time, so design work would have to be in a middle ground.

An exceedingly true point. The answer is simple: just have femShep sit like this--


Which solves dress clipping and "indecency" problem...



Too feminine? Nope. Gender neutral...



(I just hit three birds with one stone)

And occasionally she can sit like this--


Because this just looks wierd --

How Shepard moves would also depend on what their wearing, taking cover in a dress would be rather cumbersome I would assume, but if she were wearing pants, she could really sink down into it, because of the added flexibilty. What can you do about that. Her movement would also be dictated by what she has equipped, but obviously, their not going to 20 different walking animations based on what she has on. We will still have to settle for an extremely general set of animations. I think the best people can hope for is for them to solve the clipping issues, but the de-generalization of the animations would be a never ending task for them.

Of course. For scenes where she has to go into combat while wearing a casual outfit, she'll automatically be assigned pants. If she goes to another party in ME3, and there's a chance that she might need to fight, then just give her a nice outfit with pants, or a longer skirt. Problem solved.

As for when she wears armor, a woman in armor is still going to move differently than a man wearing armor. During missions, she should be able to sit however she wants though. She doesn't have to worry about a dress, or a proper situation.

Modifié par 100k, 12 juillet 2011 - 12:43 .

[SerWhat?]

EXACTLY!

[100k]

 We could give femShep the same skeleton as mShep...

But we are still faced with the problem of making her PC grow when it's absolutely necessary for certain blocking meant for a man (the default).



*Liara does a general kissing motion with a male skeleton. 
*femShep fills the male skeleton for a brief moment--essentially growing two inches or so-- before returning to normal size.

*for comparison again*


This is a great neutral pose for both genders...



This is a great gender specific pose...



And this is DAT ASS B)B)

*edited per request*

Modifié par 100k, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:51 .

[Fhaileas]

Socially gendered norms FTW!

[CuseGirl]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

I prefer my gender neutrality, thank you. For all we know, manShep is the one walking around like femShep. Nothing about how Shepard walks strikes me as particularly male or female.

....except for when femShep sits in that dress. THAT looks awkward.

Also keep in mind that when animators try to make the PC "walk" more feminine, we get the butt-waggling abomination that was LadyHawke. Seriously, it's just awful. Here I have this tanky-tank girl with armour six-inches thick and she's all, "Watch how hypnotic my hips are! See how FEMININE I am?"

Is that REALLY what you want for femShep? Her shaking her butt and gyrating her hips to appear more "feminine"?

No. Gender neutral animations, please and thank you.

yea, i'm gonna have to go with this guy. Imagine wearing the Kestral suit  with a Deathmask and capacitor greaves. You can't sashay in those...

[slimgrin]

Femshep needs some sprucing up. Her figure ( get rid of the twig arms) her hair ( we need more options ) and her animations should indeed be feminine. But I know they got limited resources, EA has to eat too...

So I'm not sure any of this will happen.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:31 .

[MeAndMySandvich]

Fhaileas wrote...

Socially gendered norms FTW!

Truth. FemShep is awesome - not need animation change. Maybe change animation when sit with legs open, but only with dress. But keep female character who is designed as hero and not sex object please.

Not need this again.

Modifié par MeAndMySandvich, 12 juillet 2011 - 04:05 .

[RhiPanda]

All I want is for femshep to have her own animations and not use malesheps skeleton, it really really bugs me ¬_¬

[ciaweth]

MeAndMySandvich wrote...

Fhaileas wrote...

Socially gendered norms FTW!

Truth. FemShep is awesome - not need animation change. Maybe change animation when sit with legs open, but only with dress. But keep female character who is designed as hero and not sex object please.

Not need this again.

This.  It's all been said before:  Shepard is a space marine.  She doesn't need to resort to sexual overtures to get what she wants, like some simpering, unresourceful moron.  By all means, fix the dress/sitting issue, by all means fix her clipping issues.  But FFS, we are not playing Barbie Effect here.

[AngelicMachinery]

I'm not entirely sure why a woman has to act like a man to be "bad ass..." but, I've been discovering that I may need to bone up on my feminism.

[100k]

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I'm not entirely sure why a woman has to act like a man to be "bad ass..." but, I've been discovering that I may need to bone up on my feminism.

There isn't a counter argument for this. The "feminists" in this thread just want her to stay manly, and the logical people want her to have the same attention to detail as mShep by getting her own rig.

[ciaweth]

100k wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I'm not entirely sure why a woman has to act like a man to be "bad ass..." but, I've been discovering that I may need to bone up on my feminism.

There isn't a counter argument for this. The "feminists" in this thread just want her to stay manly, and the logical people want her to have the same attention to detail as mShep by getting her own rig.

No one wants her to be manly. 

People want her not to be made into a wuss. 

Do you see the difference, and why people might possibly not want their space marine hero turned into a weenie who minces through the Normandy and flirts to get what she wants rather than blowing stuff up?

[AngelicMachinery]

ciaweth wrote...

100k wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I'm not entirely sure why a woman has to act like a man to be "bad ass..." but, I've been discovering that I may need to bone up on my feminism.

There isn't a counter argument for this. The "feminists" in this thread just want her to stay manly, and the logical people want her to have the same attention to detail as mShep by getting her own rig.

No one wants her to be manly. 

People want her not to be made into a wuss. 

Do you see the difference, and why people might possibly not want their space marine hero turned into a weenie who minces through the Normandy and flirts to get what she wants rather than blowing stuff up?

I don't think anyone wants a "Weenie."  I'm just horribly confused why people are against allowing her to move like an actual woman instead of a man.  Sarah Connor in T2 is a total bad ass,  and she never once sacraficed any of her femininity.

[100k]

ciaweth wrote...

100k wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I'm not entirely sure why a woman has to act like a man to be "bad ass..." but, I've been discovering that I may need to bone up on my feminism.

There isn't a counter argument for this. The "feminists" in this thread just want her to stay manly, and the logical people want her to have the same attention to detail as mShep by getting her own rig.

No one wants her to be manly. 

People want her not to be made into a wuss. 

Do you see the difference, and why people might possibly not want their space marine hero turned into a weenie who minces through the Normandy and flirts to get what she wants rather than blowing stuff up?

If you assume that feminism = wussy, weak, and "barbie" traits. 

If you assume that something masculine = strong, powerful, and respectable. 

Then you are being sexist.

Did you look at my other posts on this page? Is Aria a wussy space barbie? Or Liara? Or Ash?

Modifié par 100k, 12 juillet 2011 - 03:53 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

I would not use this as a good example of feminine Shepard. I cannot stand this pose. Specifically the sitting on her hands and sticking out her breasts part.

[Puzzlewell]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I don't think anyone wants a "Weenie."  I'm just horribly confused why people are against allowing her to move like an actual woman instead of a man.  Sarah Connor in T2 is a total bad ass,  and she never once sacraficed any of her femininity.

Guess who can't spam enough love faces to adequately comment on how wonderful Sarah Connor is in T2? That's right, me. 


Fawning fangirlisms aside, I don't know if I ever actually stated my outlook on it in this particular thread (I know I have elsewhere though). A happy medium would honestly be perfect to me. I personally don't want overly swaying hips on my FemSheps, but a more realistic walking style for the rig would be perfect. Being a lady myself I can definitely agree to the fact that we have a subtle sway to our hips even without consciously trying. I am by no means overly "feminine", but even I notice it when I stop and think about the way I am walking, as slight as the motion might be. 

[ciaweth]

100k wrote...

ciaweth wrote...

100k wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...
I'm not entirely sure why a woman has to act like a man to be "bad ass..." but, I've been discovering that I may need to bone up on my feminism.

There isn't a counter argument for this. The "feminists" in this thread just want her to stay manly, and the logical people want her to have the same attention to detail as mShep by getting her own rig.

No one wants her to be manly. 

People want her not to be made into a wuss. 

Do you see the difference, and why people might possibly not want their space marine hero turned into a weenie who minces through the Normandy and flirts to get what she wants rather than blowing stuff up?

If you assume that feminism = wussy, weak, and "barbie" traits. 

If you assume that something masculine = strong, powerful, and respectable. 

Then you are being sexist.

Did you look at my other posts on this page? Is Aria a wussy space barbie? Or Liara? Or Ash?

Look up the word "feminism."  It does not mean what you think it means; nowhere has anyone in this thread used "feminism" as a synonym for weakness.  Do you mean "femininity?"