211 réponses à ce sujet

[AngelicMachinery]

100k wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...I think Shepard has proven herself enough thank you very much,  sure,  people might believe she's kind of nutters when it comes to the reapers but no one should be questioning the woman who saved the citadel.  I think it's just ham fisted garbage.  This is just my oppinion though,  I just really want to get away from all the sexual harrasment and female inequality.  

This may be true of Alliance, Cerberus, and Council employees. But for your average merc working in Afterlife? Or for some drunk jerk lounging in Chora's Den? It's reasonable to assume that Shepard would get respect from most people in Council space. But the Terminus systems are like the wild West. Not everyone knows what Shepard looks like.

True,  but,  is it really neccesary for something like this to happen EVERY game?  For once I'd like female shepard to be given respect in the dialogue that was designed solely for her.  It's just getting agitating that she's constantly met with such ignorance.  

[rapscallioness]

This may be off topic, But it is concerning FemShep. I just ran across this today, although I'm sure many of you have seen it already. It's such a great compilation of FemShep's made by SageQueen. One of the best tributes I've seen to FemShep, and with names I recognize from this forum

I especially love the last line. So, for those who haven't seen it (like me), just wanted to share.

youtu.be/w0McQvKVrzk

[JamieCOTC]

FemShep's walk and sitting animations need tweaking, not an extensive overhaul. Idealistically, IMHO, femshep would have a slight tilt to her hips when she walked, to the point that one could barely tell it. The question to that is it worth the extra effort? Probably not. I wasn't a big fan of the ME1 walk/jog on either gender. They were too stiff, but still they are better than the ME2 walk/jog. At least Shepard held his/her head up high as if s/he had the confidence to do the job s/he was actually doing. As for sitting, both camps make good points and short of being able to pick Shepard's animations in the CC, I doubt there will ever be a happy medium.

Of course we must also be careful of what we wish for. One of the few non gender neutral parts of the game was femshep's cringe worthy cougar voice direction w/ Jacob. I have no problems w/ femshep laying on the sexy well into a romance, but in the first conversation? Jacob didn't even buy her dinner first! And it's a shame as cougar femshep and "the priiiize" turned a lot of people off to an otherwise well written romance.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 12 juillet 2011 - 05:54 .

[100k]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

100k wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...I think Shepard has proven herself enough thank you very much,  sure,  people might believe she's kind of nutters when it comes to the reapers but no one should be questioning the woman who saved the citadel.  I think it's just ham fisted garbage.  This is just my oppinion though,  I just really want to get away from all the sexual harrasment and female inequality.  

This may be true of Alliance, Cerberus, and Council employees. But for your average merc working in Afterlife? Or for some drunk jerk lounging in Chora's Den? It's reasonable to assume that Shepard would get respect from most people in Council space. But the Terminus systems are like the wild West. Not everyone knows what Shepard looks like.

True,  but,  is it really neccesary for something like this to happen EVERY game?  For once I'd like female shepard to be given respect in the dialogue that was designed solely for her.  It's just getting agitating that she's constantly met with such ignorance.  

Well, I don't think she's "constantly" being met with it.  

There are two or three tiny dialogues in ME1 where she is sexually harassed, and about two tiny dialogues in ME2 where she is harassed. So minor that most people won't even notice it.

If ME3 has two tiny dialogues where she gets harassed, and two dialogues where she actual is being inspirational (like a conversation with Ash or Miranda), then that seems like a fairly balanced. Her gender would become something that is very much a part of who she is, without turning into some preachy ordeal.

And remember, about one fifth of merc commandos are actually women, so sexism isn't so prevalent that Shepard being a soldier is a huge eyebrow raiser. It's just the occasional jerk who starts conflict. 

[SerWhat?]

Hello everyone. Since I started this conversation there are a few things I have come to realize:
1. The stupid suggestion I had for a scenario is just that. A stupid suggestion.
2. There is an actual justifiable(not personal preference) that femShep should be walking more female.
3. I never considered myself a feminist but maybe I am if I believe that femShep should be treated as well in this game as maleShep. I am 51 years old and female. I am sure I'm a minority amoung game players but I have been playing them since Pong came out. I think I have earned the right to see female heroes progress. We have progressed some since we DO have female heroes in the games. Now we need WOMEN as heroes. I know there are all kinds of women out there: tall, short, fat, thin, shy, outgoing, overtly sexual, modest, sad, happy, awkward, graceful stupid and intelligent. That does not and never will mean that feminine is Barbie Doll( although, anyone who ever played with Barbie knows she has done everything including astronaut) I believe the true problem with this game is that it is made for men not men and women. People talk about realism in this game. Hello? Science FICTION...Then they turn around and say it is more realistic for a woman to walk talk and act like a man. Bull..
4. There is nothing wrong with wishing your character to be attractive to you the player. If you don't enjoy looking at it, why have it? Since this is science fiction taking place in the future, who's to say they have not developed an armor that is as light weight as normal clothing? Relax and use your imagination.
5. Have you seen how assinine they have made renegade Shepard when she tries to flirt with Jacob?
6. Whats with the stupid lips that stick out a mile. No one has lips like that...
This is only the beginning of what I really wanted to say but I don't write very well.

[SerWhat?]

Sorry, double post...

Modifié par lknewsome, 12 juillet 2011 - 06:33 .

[100k]

lknewsome wrote...

Hello everyone. Since I started this conversation there are a few things I have come to realize:
1. The stupid suggestion I had for a scenario is just that. A stupid suggestion.
2. There is an actual justifiable(not personal preference) that femShep should be walking more female.
3. I never considered myself a feminist but maybe I am if I believe that femShep should be treated as well in this game as maleShep. I am 51 years old and female. I am sure I'm a minority amoung game players but I have been playing them since Pong came out. I think I have earned the right to see female heroes progress. We have progressed some since we DO have female heroes in the games. Now we need WOMEN as heroes. I know there are all kinds of women out there: tall, short, fat, thin, shy, outgoing, overtly sexual, modest, sad, happy, awkward, graceful stupid and intelligent. That does not and never will mean that feminine is Barbie Doll( although, anyone who ever played with Barbie knows she has done everything including astronaut) I believe the true problem with this game is that it is made for men not men and women. People talk about realism in this game. Hello? Science FICTION...Then they turn around and say it is more realistic for a woman to walk talk and act like a man. Bull..
4. There is nothing wrong with wishing your character to be attractive to you the player. If you don't enjoy looking at it, why have it? Since this is science fiction taking place in the future, who's to say they have not developed an armor that is as light weight as normal clothing? Relax and use your imagination.
5. Have you seen how assinine they have made renegade Shepard when she tries to flirt with Jacob?
6. Whats with the stupid lips that stick out a mile. No one has lips like that...
This is only the beginning of what I really wanted to say but I don't write very well.

Well...you can't say fairer than that. Well said.
:happy::happy:

[MeAndMySandvich]

Here's the solution: design Shep's animations as gender-neutral from the ground up. Bioware's desire not to make MaleShep too feminine will prevent them from going overboard with FemShep's animations.

[JamieCOTC]

btw, femshep actually can flirt w/ Hock in the Kasumi DLC.  It doesn't lead anywhere, but it does get him talking. 

Casey Hudson says there will be better animations in ME3 for Shepard. 

Hudson also claims they have always used both gender-specific and neutral animations for Shepard. 

I think BW is aware that femshep is more popular than they may have earlier believed.  As it stands now she will get a trailer this summer and will share the cover of the ME3 CE. 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 12 juillet 2011 - 07:27 .

[Ryzaki]

JamieCOTC wrote...

btw, femshep actually can flirt w/ Hock in the Kasumi DLC.  It doesn't lead anywhere, but it does get him talking. 

Casey Hudson says there will be better animations in ME3 for Shepard. 

Hudson also claims they have always used both gender-specific and neutral animations for Shepard. 

I think BW is aware that femshep is more popular than they may have earlier believed.  As it stands now she will get a trailer this summer and will share the cover of the ME3 CE. 

I wish they'd go back to the ME1 animations for both Sheps. That freaky neck twist needs to burn. 

[Grunk]

MeAndMySandvich wrote...

Here's the solution: design Shep's animations as gender-neutral from the ground up. Bioware's desire not to make MaleShep too feminine will prevent them from going overboard with FemShep's animations.

My problem with this is that "gender neutral" seems to me will invariably favor male Shepard because of male privilege. I mean, it's already rather gender neutral (from my PoV), yet the cutscenes are designed around ManShep, causing there to be awkward moments with FemShep (like FemShep suddenly growing and stuff). That's ManShep being privileged as the default and FemShep's animations suffering for it.

I'd rather they just go in understanding that FemShep is shorter and at least make it so she doesn't need to grow in cutscenes. Or for ManShep to shrink. I'd also like for them to plan ahead in case they wanna release a dress for FemShep so she sits like she's actually wearing a dress. I don't want/care for her to be sexy; I like FemShep as she is for the most part. Just some stuff is glaring.

[MeAndMySandvich]

Grunk wrote...

MeAndMySandvich wrote...

Here's the solution: design Shep's animations as gender-neutral from the ground up. Bioware's desire not to make MaleShep too feminine will prevent them from going overboard with FemShep's animations.

My problem with this is that "gender neutral" seems to me will invariably favor male Shepard because of male privilege. I mean, it's already rather gender neutral (from my PoV), yet the cutscenes are designed around ManShep, causing there to be awkward moments with FemShep (like FemShep suddenly growing and stuff). That's ManShep being privileged as the default and FemShep's animations suffering for it.

Yeah, I think several of the ME2 animations aren't gender-neutral at all, which is sort of the problem. A truly gender-netural animation wouldn't demonstrate the whole male privelage thing.

[Jessihatt]

I agree completely with OP.
Why wouldn't you use your sexuality to get what you want if it was an important mission whether you're male or female? James Bond does it.
I liked how FemHawke walked like a woman - she is a woman. She was more or less normal before Kirkwall. As Flemeth said she was "hurtled into the chaos".
I'm pretty sure there are female soldiers today who don't go 100% manly.

[TheMarshal]

I think in a game that's more focused on intrigue and espionage, having sex be one of the weapons in your arsenal would make sense. However, aside from the Kasumi LM, Mass Effect is very much a military game, and trying to screw your way out of a situation would seem fairly off were it to be an available option.

[CrookedAsylum]

CommanderJessica wrote...

I agree completely with OP.
Why wouldn't you use your sexuality to get what you want if it was an important mission whether you're male or female?

Because you don't have to.

James Bond does it.

And James Bond is a horrible excuse of a human being and spy.

I liked how FemHawke walked like a woman - she is a woman. She was more or less normal before Kirkwall. As Flemeth said she was "hurtled into the chaos".

Female Hawke walked like a limp puppy with exaggerated motions.

I'm pretty sure there are female soldiers today who don't go 100% manly.

Gender neutral does not manly make.

That being said, femShep does need her own set of animations.

[Captain Crash]

and here lies the heart of it. Those people who would like her to act a little more feminine and use the fact she is female to some advantage. Such as at Hocks place and in the odd line of dialogue that included in the games. Then theres the people who want nothing added as it may risk her gender neutrality.

As Jaime pointed out above, there is several ways you can use her character in terms of dialogue in Kasumi's DLC so I dont see why it cant be done in ME3 when the opportunity arises. If you dont like the way its heading just use a different option in the dialogue window. That resolves any issue with dialogue based chat and actions.

Its cutscenes and out of conversation areas that cant be controlled by the player so Bioware need to look at a balance for both parties. However they have done it pretty much spot in both games so far. To me personally I hated the way she walked/ran in ME2 and it needs to be looked at. Everything else can simply be polished and I will be happy enough. I would love new animations for her, I really would, but as long as Bioware show her some clear and obvious attention which was lacking compared to ME1 then I will be happy.

[TheMarshal]

The 'lumbering gorilla' that was the walk animation in ME2 definitely needs to go, for both ManShep and FemShep.

[Addai]

I'm replaying ME2 so I just wanna say- I love the female model in ME. It works for Shepard. I like the "lumbering gorilla" walk. She's a marine, not working the catwalk. I like the athletic frame. Miranda is a visual horror, but female Shepard is great.

I thought the same about female Hawke.

Just want the animators to know- at least one person is 100% satisfied with the female rig and motions. 

Modifié par Addai67, 12 juillet 2011 - 10:20 .

[Captain Crash]

Addai67 wrote...

Just want the animators to know- at least one person is 100% satisfied with the female rig and motions. 

Indeed, it seems a few people are happy with it and that leaves quite a few other dumbfounded as they cant at all see it at all.


Anyway, this hasnt been said yet.  I forgot about it tbh.  Its likely she will still use maleshep animations as mentioned.  According to Casey they already altered movements and removed the "sore shoulder" type animation with it

http://twitter.com/#...666847221071873

So just so you know movements (and walking that goes with it) will change so dont expect exactly the same from ME2 in ME3.  

[WeRtheBrox]

I wasn't a big fan of linebacker FemShep myself (especially when I tried wearing the LBD from Kasumi's mission to trap Morinth ), but there was one thing that bugged me even more.  Whenever Shepard (either gender) took a turn too fast while running, his/her head would get stuck looking off to the side and you'd have to stop moving to reset it.  It was like Shep meck muscles froze or something.  It's a little thing, but it always annoyed me.

[PMC65]

lknewsome wrote...

1. The stupid suggestion I had for a scenario is just that. A stupid suggestion. 

If you are talking about the potential seduction in the Kasumi DLC, that wasn't stupid. After all, we did it in Samara's loyalty mission. I guess that some people just don't like and/or feel comfortable with that kind of mission/roleplay. Maybe they could have made it an option, but with the way my Shepard moved in that dress I didn't think she was very sexy.  

For the Morinth "seduction" ... My femShep put on her Marlene Dietrich attitude, although inside we both were scared sh**less, went into that club ... she said all the right things to the mark to get hustled back to her apartment and then Ka-POW! Why did I feel like I was seducing Angelina Jolie of "Girl, Interrupted"?

Using seduction as a weapon makes me think of the femme fatale's of RKO's film noirs. Those dames had it going on. They used their god-given gifts + brains to overpower the person. Who needs guns when you can just "whisper".  Although, Shepard did need Samara after the whisper "Dear god, she is sitting on my lap. Help."



 

[RPGamer13]

Addai67 wrote...

I'm replaying ME2 so I just wanna say- I love the female model in ME. It works for Shepard. I like the "lumbering gorilla" walk. She's a marine, not working the catwalk. I like the athletic frame. Miranda is a visual horror, but female Shepard is great.

I thought the same about female Hawke.

Just want the animators to know- at least one person is 100% satisfied with the female rig and motions. 

She needs more arm muscles, well thicker arms when wearing the armor.  And some hips, the waist is exactly the same as the male shepard model.

[Addai]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I'm replaying ME2 so I just wanna say- I love the female model in ME. It works for Shepard. I like the "lumbering gorilla" walk. She's a marine, not working the catwalk. I like the athletic frame. Miranda is a visual horror, but female Shepard is great.

I thought the same about female Hawke.

Just want the animators to know- at least one person is 100% satisfied with the female rig and motions. 

She needs more arm muscles, well thicker arms when wearing the armor.  And some hips, the waist is exactly the same as the male shepard model.

*shrug*  Looks fine to me.  Not all women look the same, and I'd rather not have a bulkier profile in armor.

[Yionel]

I vote for more haircuts for "both" gender..Kaidan and Ashley get a revamp...why couldnt we?

Modifié par Yionel, 13 juillet 2011 - 08:31 .

[XStoneColdFoxX]

lknewsome wrote...

Hello everyone. Since I started this conversation there are a few things I have come to realize:
1. The stupid suggestion I had for a scenario is just that. A stupid suggestion.
2. There is an actual justifiable(not personal preference) that femShep should be walking more female.
3. I never considered myself a feminist but maybe I am if I believe that femShep should be treated as well in this game as maleShep. I am 51 years old and female. I am sure I'm a minority amoung game players but I have been playing them since Pong came out. I think I have earned the right to see female heroes progress. We have progressed some since we DO have female heroes in the games. Now we need WOMEN as heroes. I know there are all kinds of women out there: tall, short, fat, thin, shy, outgoing, overtly sexual, modest, sad, happy, awkward, graceful stupid and intelligent. That does not and never will mean that feminine is Barbie Doll( although, anyone who ever played with Barbie knows she has done everything including astronaut) I believe the true problem with this game is that it is made for men not men and women. People talk about realism in this game. Hello? Science FICTION...Then they turn around and say it is more realistic for a woman to walk talk and act like a man. Bull..
4. There is nothing wrong with wishing your character to be attractive to you the player. If you don't enjoy looking at it, why have it? Since this is science fiction taking place in the future, who's to say they have not developed an armor that is as light weight as normal clothing? Relax and use your imagination.
5. Have you seen how assinine they have made renegade Shepard when she tries to flirt with Jacob?
6. Whats with the stupid lips that stick out a mile. No one has lips like that...
This is only the beginning of what I really wanted to say but I don't write very well.

I so agree with you on this whole ordeal. I also wish to see some estrogen thrown into female Shepard. I mean she does not have to throw her chest and ass into the scene or be sultry or anything, just WALK and SIT like a normal freaking female. I don’t understand why people are getting all butt hurt over that simple request. Soldier or not all women have a little sway in their hips (except for the ones who strain themselves to do otherwise). If Shepard is supposed to be complete “man” then why add a female version? And the whole "Shepard wouldn't be respected as a commanding officer if she acts like a female" thing is on the lines of disrespectful, and I believe it is quite sexist. So basically being a female with doesn't get you anywhere anymore? I wasn't aware that we suddenly jumped back into the 1940's. Smh… Maybe they should just stick with the ME1 walk, I thought it was perfect for female Shepard.