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Are we being fooled?

Débuté par alihou , juil. 10 2011 10:15

327 réponses à ce sujet

#251
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 02:34

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Inverness Moon wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

@Inverness Moon:

I understand your views and arguments and they are all reasonable. I still do not agree with you on most things, but you're not unreasonable either.

That's all I have to say. I'm not in the mood for a discussion that takes up half a page per post. So lets just agree to disagree and wait for ME3.

I agree. :lol:

Oh, wait. :bandit:


Oh, one more thing:

Just because my "canon Shep" destroyed the Collector base does not mean that I did not enjoy saving the base with my "ruthless Shep". I'm actually looking forward to how ME3 is going to turn out for my "ruthless Shep". Almost everyone is dead in my ruthless Shep's playthrough and he hardly has any allies except for Cerberus who isn't really an ally but just uses him. I'm REALLY REALLY curious how my ruthless Shep will do in ME3.

#252
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 02:50

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Fear is good, it's survival mechanism. We should fear Reapers. They're much more fearsome than TIM.

Base-destroying Shepard disagrees, though. He would rather do absolutely nothing about the imminent invasion and pray that a divine lighting strikes the Reapers down than hand the tech over to TIM. I think TIM should be flattered that the galaxy sees him as a greater threat than the Reapers who have been destroying all advanced organic life for countless cycles.

I don't entirely blame the Paragon Shepard, though. He acts from experience. He's used to universe bending over to suit him, even when he makes choices that don't lead to victory, like in Zaeed's mission. He expects that something like that will happen this time, too - and he's right. TIM salvages the tech anyway, so the galaxy is going to be saved, no matter what choice Shepard makes about the base.

On the subject of OP, have you seen "Invasion"? The annotation says "when the station comes under attack from a new threat unleashed by the humanity-first organization Cerberus" - it sounds like Cerberus is attacking the station. Then the preview shows that something went wrong with one of their experiments. I'm not sure if it counts as intentionally misleading, but it's a trend.

#253
KevShep
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 02:51

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Inverness Moon.......Cerberus may turn out to be just as big of a threat as the reapers if they are working for them!....Which by the way cerberus is working for them in ME3, this is not a rumor....it is already confermed.

#254
JamieCOTC
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 02:54

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Luc0s wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

@Inverness Moon:

I understand your views and arguments and they are all reasonable. I still do not agree with you on most things, but you're not unreasonable either.

That's all I have to say. I'm not in the mood for a discussion that takes up half a page per post. So lets just agree to disagree and wait for ME3.

I agree. :lol:

Oh, wait. :bandit:


Oh, one more thing:

Just because my "canon Shep" destroyed the Collector base does not mean that I did not enjoy saving the base with my "ruthless Shep". I'm actually looking forward to how ME3 is going to turn out for my "ruthless Shep". Almost everyone is dead in my ruthless Shep's playthrough and he hardly has any allies except for Cerberus who isn't really an ally but just uses him. I'm REALLY REALLY curious how my ruthless Shep will do in ME3.


Pretty much how I feel.  I did both paragon and a renegade playthroughs and looking forward to how they each play out. If my renegade gets the shaft from Cerberus, fine, she'll enjoy killing them that much more.  If my paragon gets bit in the behind by a "holier than thou" decision she made, fine, maybe she'll get a chance to actually emote then. 

I do have to say that this thread takes me back to all the speculation just before "Return of the Jedi" and how badass Boba Fett and Jabba the Hutt were going to be in that movie.  =]

#255
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 02:58

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KevShep wrote...

Inverness Moon.......Cerberus may turn out to be just as big of a threat as the reapers if they are working for them!....Which by the way cerberus is working for them in ME3, this is not a rumor....it is already confermed.


Nah, it hasn't. Here's everything that's been confirmed.

#256
Inverness Moon
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 03:05

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Luc0s wrote...

Oh, one more thing:

Just because my "canon Shep" destroyed the Collector base does not mean that I did not enjoy saving the base with my "ruthless Shep". I'm actually looking forward to how ME3 is going to turn out for my "ruthless Shep". Almost everyone is dead in my ruthless Shep's playthrough and he hardly has any allies except for Cerberus who isn't really an ally but just uses him. I'm REALLY REALLY curious how my ruthless Shep will do in ME3.

Well, I don't know about your Shepard, but I play Renegon for mine. Personally I don't think being renegade means being a bully and a dick like BioWare seems to think sometimes. What sensible human being could resist hugging Tali anyways?

I've got my Rachni, Krogan, and Geth allies ready to put the boot up the ass of anyone or anything that needs it. I'm going to drag TIM along whether he likes it or not.

#257
KevShep
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 03:06

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laecraft wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Inverness Moon.......Cerberus may turn out to be just as big of a threat as the reapers if they are working for them!....Which by the way cerberus is working for them in ME3, this is not a rumor....it is already confermed.


Nah, it hasn't. Here's everything that's been confirmed.


On an interview with casey hudson on spike TV he says that cerberus is working with the reapers and TIM is behind it all...also he says that you have to spend part of the game trying to find out why!  look at 8:19-9:10 he says it all there.

Modifié par KevShep, 14 juillet 2011 - 03:10 .

#258
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 03:09

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There will be no game-breaking choices. Look at SM, you can't fail it even if you try really hard. As for getting the best outcomes, apparently you can achieve it by being consistent. Which, game-wise, probably means playing pure Renegade or pure Paragon.

Casey Hudson on choices in ME3:

Killing the Rachni might present opportunities in Mass Effect 3 that you wouldn't otherwise have, but if you don't take those opportunities and you try to do something in opposition to that, then it would be harder for you than if you work with it. Similarly with the decisions at the end of Mass Effect 2, for whether you saved the base or destroyed it."

Of course, until the game comes out, it all could be changed.

Modifié par laecraft, 14 juillet 2011 - 03:11 .

#259
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 03:19

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KevShep wrote...

laecraft wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Inverness Moon.......Cerberus may turn out to be just as big of a threat as the reapers if they are working for them!....Which by the way cerberus is working for them in ME3, this is not a rumor....it is already confermed.


Nah, it hasn't. Here's everything that's been confirmed.


On an interview with casey hudson on spike TV he says that cerberus is working with the reapers and TIM is behind it all...also he says that you have to spend part of the game trying to find out why!  look at 8:19-9:10 he says it all there.


Yeah, I saw it during E3. I think that tweet was posted in response to that video. I wasn't the only one shocked by that casual declaration. "Oh and by the way, Cerberus is working with the Reapers now. Wait - no, it's a simplification. Play and figure out why." *groan* Who cares why? Tell us if we can change it!

#260
Mr. Gogeta34
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 04:14

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At this point I'm not sure how the news about Cerberus working with the Reapers being a 'simplification' makes any difference.

How does their reasoning make Cerberus actions any less of a spoiler? I'm not sure I understand the response... esepcially when you consider how things were left if you saved the Collector base.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 14 juillet 2011 - 04:22 .

#261
alperez
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 04:35

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laecraft wrote...

Base-destroying Shepard disagrees, though. He would rather do absolutely nothing about the imminent invasion and pray that a divine lighting strikes the Reapers down than hand the tech over to TIM. I think TIM should be flattered that the galaxy sees him as a greater threat than the Reapers who have been destroying all advanced organic life for countless cycles.
.


In me1 we're told that using reaper tech allows us to advance on the path the reapers want us to advance on, in me2 Legion basically confirms this and says its a bad idea. All through the games we see evidence that using reaper tech is not a great idea (yes there are some positives but they're outweighed by the negatives imo) until finally we arrive at a collector base full of reaper tech and the 2 choices we have are destroy or hand it over to someone that a lot of us don't trust.

There are as many valid reasons to give the base as there are to destroy it, as a paragon i destroy it because the cost imo is just too high, not only are there inherent dangers with the tech itself, but to keep it and hand it over to someone i don't trust is way too high a price to pay.

If there had have been another option then i may have made a different choice although i don't think i would have, but ask yourself this question.

Why only 2 choices? in a game where one path is one way and the other is the opposite why would they have left it that there were only those 2 choices available? Perhaps just perhaps they were setting the stage for giving Cerberus the base is wrong, destroying it is right and if that is the case then doesn't it show that all along they were trying to tell you that Cerberus may indeed be your enemy and not your friend.

#262
JamieCOTC
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 04:59

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Shepard said Cerberus was indoctrinated and Casey said TIM was behind whatever Cerberus was doing.  Proof TIM is indoctrinated because Shepard said so and Shepard is never wrong.  Just ask Miranda.

Miranda: Shepard did everything right ... (no matter what Shepard did). 

joking :P

#263
alihou
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 06:13

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"Nah, not a spoiler, just simplification of premise for TV. Cerberus & Reapers are both against you in #ME3 - the mystery is why." You notice how Casey doesn't mention TIM in that? hmmmmmmm...

#264
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 06:54

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alihou wrote...

"Nah, not a spoiler, just simplification of premise for TV. Cerberus & Reapers are both against you in #ME3 - the mystery is why." You notice how Casey doesn't mention TIM in that? hmmmmmmm...


He does say that TIM is behind everything that Cerberus does, in the video. I don't think that statement is, too, a simplification. It makes sense that TIM = Cerberus, otherwise it might just be a different organization with the same name.

Also, since the game is not out yet, it's possible that they may yet change the plot.

One thing's for sure - we'll be fighting Cerberus in ME3. So Cerberus might not be WITH the Reapers. They're trying to kill me, but not for the Reapers? I feel so much better now. And I get to play the game and find out how it has come to this? Yay, the things are not completely out of my control, then. Bah!

It's like starting ME3, and in the intro, you learn that the Reapers had already won, and now you can play the game to discover how it happened. Explore the barren galaxy and the empty Earth. But hey, at least you can uncover the mystery!

#265
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 06:58

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JamieCOTC wrote...

Shepard said Cerberus was indoctrinated and Casey said TIM was behind whatever Cerberus was doing.  Proof TIM is indoctrinated because Shepard said so and Shepard is never wrong.  Just ask Miranda.


It still leaves room for interpretation. Shepard could be mistaken or lying, the troops could be indoctrinated but TIM himself is not, this could be one of the plot branches in which you destroyed/kept the base, and if you take a different branch, Cerberus is attacking you for a different reason, or it could just be a demo and could be changed.

Doesn't change the fact that we'll be fighting Cerberus and killing humans. Even if this is just one big deception, this is pretty dark.

#266
Massadonious1
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 07:01

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You mean we haven't been killing/sacrificing Humans in the previous two games? Are those mercs all just Geth in disguise?

Mind = blown

#267
Inverness Moon
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 07:34

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Massadonious1 wrote...

You mean we haven't been killing/sacrificing Humans in the previous two games? Are those mercs all just Geth in disguise?

Mind = blown

They're like us now.

#268
Guanxi
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 08:30

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The whole point of having Shepard work with T.I.M./Cerberus in ME2 I felt was to turn the whole comic book villain thing on it's head and to point out to the player that Cerberus were genuinely trying to do the right thing by the human race by doing the all of the horribly messy dirty work that the Alliance couldn't  do in order that the human race not get steamrolled and were (all) painted as terrorists and racists (tends to attract that sort) because they threatened the power establishment and this cushy relationship between the Alliance and the council that might not necessarily be in our best interest... somebody has to ask/find answers these kind of questions.  

It seemed obvious to me at the time that Cerberus would be the renegade path in ME3 and the collector base was their 'save the council' moment.

Edit: Now it seems ME2 was a total waste and their back to being comic book bad guys all over again. We've not seen anything that suggests otherwise. My first reaction was that there was no way T.I.M. could be indoctrinated given that he seemed impervious to it (Arca Monolith) and Cerberus couldn't have been working for the Reapers all along because of the entire premise of ME2... Why would a boss ask you to destroy his company car?

Modifié par Guanxi, 14 juillet 2011 - 08:53 .

#269
Thadeus Zeitlin
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 09:10

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alihou wrote...

What about the Reapers? Are they actually the villain or is there a bigger meaning that we don't know yet? Bioware has made some mention of a "Luke I am your father" plot twist...

Are there any conspiracy theorists out there? I am not saying these will be 100% plausible possibilities...Maybe ME3 is more complicated than we actually think...What are your thoughts? :alien:


It is possible that the Reapers are at war with a greater enemy in dark space and that returning to the known universe to replenish their ranks and evolve their forms with the genetic material of a new sentient race is their strategy for winning it.

Obviously, if this is the case it is a ridiculously long war... but with what? Who knows? It could be a more epic Quarian vs Geth scenario.

My reasoning is as follows: if you are a sentient race your priority is survival. If you are reproducing more of your race it is because something is killing off older members of your people (humans die of old age and disease, is something killing Reapers that they would need to create entirely new Reapers to replace the old ones?).

#270
Guanxi
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 09:23

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Thadeus Zeitlin wrote...

alihou wrote...

What about the Reapers? Are they actually the villain or is there a bigger meaning that we don't know yet? Bioware has made some mention of a "Luke I am your father" plot twist...

Are there any conspiracy theorists out there? I am not saying these will be 100% plausible possibilities...Maybe ME3 is more complicated than we actually think...What are your thoughts? :alien:


It is possible that the Reapers are at war with a greater enemy in dark space and that returning to the known universe to replenish their ranks and evolve their forms with the genetic material of a new sentient race is their strategy for winning it.

Obviously, if this is the case it is a ridiculously long war... but with what? Who knows? It could be a more epic Quarian vs Geth scenario.

My reasoning is as follows: if you are a sentient race your priority is survival. If you are reproducing more of your race it is because something is killing off older members of your people (humans die of old age and disease, is something killing Reapers that they would need to create entirely new Reapers to replace the old ones?).


Probably old age. Reapers are organic and synthetic constructs. Organic material decays over time (50,000 years).
Many of them probably die between cycles... especially if there isn't enough fresh quality organic material to go around during a harvest. Imagine the cost of maintaining a reaper in good working order in real terms.

Edit: Also the more Reapers there are, the bigger the harvest needed. The reapers might have been so successful over the years that their ranks have swelled to the point that there just isn't enough quality organic material to maintain or grow the population during a given harvest so they are slowly dying. Hoist by their own petard of advancement/successfulness.

Modifié par Guanxi, 14 juillet 2011 - 09:33 .

#271
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 09:28

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Massadonious1 wrote...

You mean we haven't been killing/sacrificing Humans in the previous two games? Are those mercs all just Geth in disguise?

Mind = blown


Blue Suns = batarians, turians, and humans.
Blood Pack = vorcha, krogan, varren.
Eclipse = asari, salarians and humans.

I know it might be too much for your mind to handle, but stay with me, here comes the best part.

Cerberus = humans. Only humans. Look at their fingers - they have five. 40 percent of the enemies. Human soldiers, to be precise. Trained for decades to fight for humanity. You'll be shooting down the best of our kind, while the Reaper are harvesting the Earth. And, worst of all, it's not even their choice - apparently, they're indoctrinated.

#272
KevShep
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 09:51

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Guanxi wrote...

Edit: Also the more Reapers there are, the bigger the harvest needed. The reapers might have been so successful over the years that their ranks have swelled to the point that there just isn't enough quality organic material to maintain or grow the population during a given harvest so they are slowly dying. Hoist by their own petard of advancement/successfulness.


Thats a good thought but I doubt it. The reapers tried to kill off all the other races of the galaxy with the rachni. This makes me think that they are only after humans even before we found our relay. This is present again in mordins recruitment mission when the collectors made a virus to kill all but humans. They only want humans!!!!!! I think that they were intrested in humans longer then we think. Why else would they(Sovereign) kill off...ALL...the other races of the galaxy with the rachni even before the reaper invasion? The real reason the reapers are into humans will be a spoiler in ME3 and I bet you that cerberus is part of that spoiler!

Modifié par KevShep, 14 juillet 2011 - 10:08 .

#273
John Renegade
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 09:55

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From what Casey said, I hope it won't be all that bad.


From his twitter page (11 May):

0lrkalla0: "You were begrudgingly working for Cerberus in ME2"-Really?I was perfectly fine with it. So much for deepening the RPG aspect.

CaseyDHudson: Shepard had no choice but to work with Cerberus in #ME2. But both #ME2 and #ME3 let you roleplay whether you agreed with that.

#274
Seboist
Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 11:56

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John Renegade wrote...

From what Casey said, I hope it won't be all that bad.


From his twitter page (11 May):

0lrkalla0: "You were begrudgingly working for Cerberus in ME2"-Really?I was perfectly fine with it. So much for deepening the RPG aspect.

CaseyDHudson: Shepard had no choice but to work with Cerberus in #ME2. But both #ME2 and #ME3 let you roleplay whether you agreed with that.


That probably just means Shepard will be able to say "TIM, what the hell?!" right before he sends another platoon of Cerberus troops after him.

#275
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Posté 14 juillet 2011 - 12:37

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Seboist wrote...

That probably just means Shepard will be able to say "TIM, what the hell?!" right before he sends another platoon of Cerberus troops after him.


If Shepard can ask him that, and can get some kind of answer out of TIM, it would be more than I hope for. See what I'm settling for? My greatest fear is that we're not going to hear from TIM for the entire game, and at the very end, he shows up, huskified, and maybe says a few words before we have to fight him.

Oh, and by the time that happens, we will have already uncovered the "mystery of why." Harbinger probably can't wait to boast to Shepard all about it. Honestly, the Reaper is more willing to communicate than TIM.

But yes, roleplaying how you feel about it would probably involve Shepard saying something like "well, damn. And here I thought we're getting along well," when Cerberus attacks him for the nth time.
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