327 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

Seboist wrote...

That probably just means Shepard will be able to say "TIM, what the hell?!" right before he sends another platoon of Cerberus troops after him.

If Shepard can ask him that, and can get some kind of answer out of TIM, it would be more than I hope for. See what I'm settling for? My greatest fear is that we're not going to hear from TIM for the entire game, and at the very end, he shows up, huskified, and maybe says a few words before we have to fight him.

Oh, and by the time that happens, we will have already uncovered the "mystery of why." Harbinger probably can't wait to boast to Shepard all about it. Honestly, the Reaper is more willing to communicate than TIM.

But yes, roleplaying how you feel about it would probably involve Shepard saying something like "well, damn. And here I thought we're getting along well," when Cerberus attacks him for the nth time.

I'm also expecting that IF we're able to ally with them again it'll be when Cerberus is 99.9% destroyed and TIM is a  quadriplegic in a coma.

[PrinceLionheart]

marshalleck wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Is it really that hard to believe that the man that is the leader and founder of a terrorist organization is a bad, bad boy?

Yes, when they spent so much ME2 pre-release hype time talking about how The Illusive Man is this magnificent bastard character, embodying the best and worst of humanity.

And you hear all that from Cerberus' PR, Miranda Lawson. She isn't exactly the most impartial source.

[Arijharn]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Is it really that hard to believe that the man that is the leader and founder of a terrorist organization is a bad, bad boy?

Yes, when they spent so much ME2 pre-release hype time talking about how The Illusive Man is this magnificent bastard character, embodying the best and worst of humanity.

And you hear all that from Cerberus' PR, Miranda Lawson. She isn't exactly the most impartial source.

And who would be an impartial source then? o.0

[Seboist]

laecraft wrote...

@Arcian: Try to imagine Casey Hudson saying about your favourite character, "Oh, and by the way, they're working with the Reapers now. And they will be trying to kill you throughout the game. You'll have to play the game to find out why!"

Incidentally, Seboist is a ray of sunshine.

True, TIM is the best character in ME and my Shepard would take a bullet for her man.

[PrinceLionheart]

Arijharn wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Is it really that hard to believe that the man that is the leader and founder of a terrorist organization is a bad, bad boy?

Yes, when they spent so much ME2 pre-release hype time talking about how The Illusive Man is this magnificent bastard character, embodying the best and worst of humanity.

And you hear all that from Cerberus' PR, Miranda Lawson. She isn't exactly the most impartial source.

And who would be an impartial source then? o.0

No one is going to be completely impartial, but Jacob actually gives some good reasons why he works with Cerberus.

Personally, I don't think TIM is some mustache twirling super villain, but at the same time I'm not going to put complete faith in everything Miranda tells me about the group since she's obviously enamoured with TIM and completely downplays all the negative qualities.

[Myzzrimm]

I read people arguing over the whole shephard was indoctrinated thing, and support it 100%. Reminds me of a mix of knights of the old republic and bioshock mixed.

Would you kindly?

[alperez]

laecraft wrote...

@Arcian: Try to imagine Casey Hudson saying about your favourite character, "Oh, and by the way, they're working with the Reapers now. And they will be trying to kill you throughout the game. You'll have to play the game to find out why!"

.

Or try to imagine a situation where your forced to work with people whose Idealogy and methods you completely disagree with, are not allowed properly question why you must work with them and have no option other than working with those people, even if it goes against everything the character you supposedly created stands for, oh wait that already happened.

[alperez]

Myzzrimm wrote...

I read people arguing over the whole shephard was indoctrinated thing, and support it 100%. Reminds me of a mix of knights of the old republic and bioshock mixed.

Would you kindly?

The problem with that is that for 2 games you've made the choices you feel where for the best, to suddenly find out that in fact it wasn't you making those choices, that you all along or partly have been controlled by an exterior force would turn this from what was essentially an RPG into something completely different. While people may argue that bioware have removed most of the key components of rpg gaming already, to remove that one would be really stupid.

They could do a part of the game where Shepard is indoctrinated and being forced to do something only for you the player to find a way to stop it, but that would only work for a mission or two at best, if you find that since Lazurus or before Shepard has been indoctrinated, then it completely diminishes everything Shepard has done to this point.

The Kotor thing was different in that Revan wasn't actually indoctrinated instead it was a complete brainwashing allowing the player to decide the path you took, indoctrination wouldn't work the same because someone else would have been controlling Shepard.

[alperez]

Luc0s wrote...

alperez wrote...

indoctrination wouldn't work the same because someone else would have been controlling Shepard.

You're Shepard IS indoctrinated and IS controlled by someone else... YOU! xD

A player deciding the actions a protagonist take and a plot reveal that shows that it wasn't actually the player who took those actions but the player being controlled by an outside force (not the usual alcohol either lol) but the plot mechanic you've used in order to eliminate choice may not exactly be the same thing.

Although it could explain why my Shepard at times gets stuck on ledges.

[JamieCOTC]

alperez wrote...

laecraft wrote...

@Arcian: Try to imagine Casey Hudson saying about your favourite character, "Oh, and by the way, they're working with the Reapers now. And they will be trying to kill you throughout the game. You'll have to play the game to find out why!"

.

Or try to imagine a situation where your forced to work with people whose Idealogy and methods you completely disagree with, are not allowed properly question why you must work with them and have no option other than working with those people, even if it goes against everything the character you supposedly created stands for, oh wait that already happened.

This.

[Seboist]

alperez wrote...

laecraft wrote...

@Arcian: Try to imagine Casey Hudson saying about your favourite character, "Oh, and by the way, they're working with the Reapers now. And they will be trying to kill you throughout the game. You'll have to play the game to find out why!"

.

Or try to imagine a situation where your forced to work with people whose Idealogy and methods you completely disagree with, are not allowed properly question why you must work with them and have no option other than working with those people, even if it goes against everything the character you supposedly created stands for, oh wait that already happened.

Yeah, my Shepard didn't like working for the council in ME1 either.

[AesirMan]

JamieCOTC wrote...

alperez wrote...

laecraft wrote...

@Arcian: Try to imagine Casey Hudson saying about your favourite character, "Oh, and by the way, they're working with the Reapers now. And they will be trying to kill you throughout the game. You'll have to play the game to find out why!"

.

Or try to imagine a situation where your forced to work with people whose Idealogy and methods you completely disagree with, are not allowed properly question why you must work with them and have no option other than working with those people, even if it goes against everything the character you supposedly created stands for, oh wait that already happened.

This.

Oh wait... Council won't help you because Cerberus BROUGHT YOU BACK FROM THE DEAD.....   Oh imagine that AND the Alliance is tasked to capacity and can't help you.... So an organization offers to help you save the universe and you'd say no?  Well thanks for damning the human race because one couldn't put their principles aside long enough to fight the real threat.     They dont FORCE you to work with them... they ask you to help them with things but they leave the mission stuff mostly to you.  They ask you to get one of their operatives... oh wait... you can screw them over by holding the info or sending it to the Alliance HQ.   You can screw over project overlord destroy the collector base.  One can essentially screw over TIM from the inside and that is what I think paragons don't get.  You aren't working for Cerberus as a paragon you are a free agent that recieves funding from them because the Council won't get off their asses and the Alliance is tasked to capacity and can't help.  So What you are saying Jamie is that you agree with that

"If given the choice I'd say screw you Cerberus and doom the universe to mass extinction because the Council won't help and the Alliance is unable to all because we refuse to believe Cerberus might be of use." 

[AesirMan]

Seboist wrote...

alperez wrote...

laecraft wrote...

@Arcian: Try to imagine Casey Hudson saying about your favourite character, "Oh, and by the way, they're working with the Reapers now. And they will be trying to kill you throughout the game. You'll have to play the game to find out why!"

.

Or try to imagine a situation where your forced to work with people whose Idealogy and methods you completely disagree with, are not allowed properly question why you must work with them and have no option other than working with those people, even if it goes against everything the character you supposedly created stands for, oh wait that already happened.

Yeah, my Shepard didn't like working for the council in ME1 either.

Yeah my ME1 Shep after the eden prime beacon exploding Captain Anderson said The Council isn't going to like this... And well my Shep responds with "The Council can kiss my ****."  Being forced to work with the Council.... Like I said before ME3 should give us the choices based on choices in 1 & 2 to either go total freelance, alliance, council or cerberus.

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, my Shepard didn't like working for the council in ME1 either.

But working with terrorists is a-okay, right? Let me guess. Your Shepard doesn't like working with the Alliance either, despite being in their military his/her whole adult life and worked to be N7, the best of the best among their ranks. 

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, my Shepard didn't like working for the council in ME1 either.

But working with terrorists is a-okay, right? Let me guess. Your Shepard doesn't like working with the Alliance either, despite being in their military his/her whole adult life and worked to be N7, the best of the best among their ranks. 

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

My Shepard works with the Alliance and Cerberus to rid the galaxy of terrorist scum like Balak and Vido.

Wrong assumption there bub.

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...

My Shepard works with the Alliance and Cerberus to rid the galaxy of terrorist scum like Balak and Vido.

Wrong assumption there bub.

Hypocrisy at its finest there.

[AesirMan]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Seboist wrote...

My Shepard works with the Alliance and Cerberus to rid the galaxy of terrorist scum like Balak and Vido.

Wrong assumption there bub.

Hypocrisy at its finest there.

Thats much less Hypocritical than working with the Alliance and the Council....

I still ascribe to theory that Cerberus and the Alliance are pretty much still one and the same.  Just most people don't know it.  Admiral Hackett being on board of a Cerberus vessel knowing where it was and somehow convincing Miranda the XO to visit while you were unconscious?   See when a soldier in the Army goes SF they get discharged and then give a seperate enlistment contract.... I see Cerberus much the same way.   They are labeled a terrorist organization because its plausible deniability and that they need secrecy so that the Alliance can't be implicated.  I find it quite funny that once Cerberus researches something the Alliance picks up the project a few years later as if THEY did the R&D. 

I think the Alliance and Cerberus work together much more than the Alliance and the Council because the Alliance and Cerberus still have human interests. 


But let me ask this When has the Council looked out for human interests?

[Someone With Mass]

AesirMan wrote...
But let me ask this When has the Council looked out for human interests?

Why should they?

Humanity has earned more in less than half a century than most races have during their whole time on the Citadel.

If anything, they should prioritize other species that could benefit more from their help than humanity. Like the drell, or the newly discovered raloi.

It's not just: "Humanity, humanity, humanity, humanity, humanity" all the time.

And frankly, I find it weak that we're earning so much so fast, but giving so little in return.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 14 juillet 2011 - 05:37 .

[AesirMan]

So why is it hypocritical to work for Cerberus and the Alliance if Cerberus looks out for Human interests?

[Someone With Mass]

AesirMan wrote...

So why is it hypocritical to work for Cerberus and the Alliance if Cerberus looks out for Human interests?

Because Cerberus is just making itself an enemy with every other race out there. Some that could be potantial allies, even.

[John Renegade]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, my Shepard didn't like working for the council in ME1 either.

But working with terrorists is a-okay, right? Let me guess. Your Shepard doesn't like working with the Alliance either, despite being in their military his/her whole adult life and worked to be N7, the best of the best among their ranks. 

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

1. This isn't about the Alliance and now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Seboist once said that he originally (that is in ME1) didn't mind working with them and that his opinion on them changed in ME2?

2. This is about being forced to work with the Council and Cerberus, where you can actually in both cases voice your discontent in doing so. In the case of the Council Shepard can act not exactly happy when Nihlus tells him that he's evaluated for a Spectre training. You can flat out let them DIE (the bottom dialogue wheel option) and you can get into really a lot of arguments with them. And its blatantly obvious on how many occasions in ME2 can Shepard say that he doesn't like working with Cerberus.

3. You can roleplay your Shepard's personality in situations, when it isn't already pre-made. And in the Council's case you are never forced to say that you do or do not enjoy working for them. (This means, that it's possible for Shepard not to like working for the Council)

4. This isn't about morality of given organisation, but about the fact, that you have to work with them, so don't bring Cerberus' reputation into this argument. (Also Cerberus is black-ops not terrorists, it tries to keep low profile - tell me of one event, when it committed acts, that were meant to incite fear in public, so that public would fulfil their demands.)

So in the end the answer is: Yes, you ARE forced to work for the Council and you can disagree, if you roleplay that way and people who are forced to work for Cerberus and disagree with it are in no worse position than the first group.

@ PrinceLionheart: Actually that line about representing "the best and worst of humanity" came from Casey Hudson during one interview with Gametrailers (I think it was the one where we could see the illusive man for the first time)

Modifié par John Renegade, 14 juillet 2011 - 05:54 .