I'm pretty sure he's the next Snape... but that's just a guess.
Are we being fooled?
Débuté par
alihou
, juil. 10 2011 10:15
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#152
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 04:31
Eurhetemec
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Son of Illusive Man wrote...
I'm not sure, but didn't they say that they wanted to bring him back exactly how he was before?
Well, Shepard himself says that he's "noticed a few improvements", and the chargen screen clearly shows cybernetic implants AND various Upgrade descriptions for Shepard describe cybernetic implants.
Absolutely none of it sounds like Reapertech, though, some of it is only a few decades away from stuff we're doing now.
#153
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 04:43
xentar
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That Bioware logo below the topic is quite misleading...
#154
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 04:44
Someone With Mass
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xentar wrote...
That Bioware logo below the topic is quite misleading...
It just means that a BioWare employee/moderator has posted in this thread.
#155
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 04:48
xentar
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I'm not arguing with that.Someone With Mass wrote...
xentar wrote...
That Bioware logo below the topic is quite misleading...
It just means that a BioWare employee/moderator has posted in this thread.
#156
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:08
Shad0wOGRE
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Where is everyone getting this Shepard is full of Reaper tech?
#157
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:11
ThePwener
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There is the possibility of Reaper tech in Shepard. We don't know jack squat remember!
#158
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:32
mulder1199
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eh, the reaper tech basically came about as a result of ME2....the new book may shed some light on why they are after shep....it conveniently will now be released about a month before ME3
#159
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:34
Klijpope
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I have a theory that Shepard is actually immune to Indoctrination. This could have been one of the factors in the Reaper's interest in her/his body. TIM shows that humanity has the potential to partially resist indoctrination; maybe Shep is of an evolutionary line to be able to totally resist it, and that's why the Reaper's are sh*t-scared of humans.
One of the things about Arrival was that Shep was alone - I know this is to do with him/her having sole responsibility for the destruction of that system, and without any corroborating witnesses, but it also means there was no one with him/her to be able to get indoctrinated...
In fact, Shep should install suit cams to his/her armour; save a lot of bother. It would prove the conversation had with Sovereign, and would also prove what happened during Arrival. The Council did let a geth recording of Saren and Beneziah prove Saren's guilt, after all. If a geth recording offered by a quarian is good enough, the suit cam of a Spectre should be too.
One of the things about Arrival was that Shep was alone - I know this is to do with him/her having sole responsibility for the destruction of that system, and without any corroborating witnesses, but it also means there was no one with him/her to be able to get indoctrinated...
In fact, Shep should install suit cams to his/her armour; save a lot of bother. It would prove the conversation had with Sovereign, and would also prove what happened during Arrival. The Council did let a geth recording of Saren and Beneziah prove Saren's guilt, after all. If a geth recording offered by a quarian is good enough, the suit cam of a Spectre should be too.
#160
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:38
mulder1199
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Klijpope wrote...
I have a theory that Shepard is actually immune to Indoctrination. This could have been one of the factors in the Reaper's interest in her/his body. TIM shows that humanity has the potential to partially resist indoctrination; maybe Shep is of an evolutionary line to be able to totally resist it, and that's why the Reaper's are sh*t-scared of humans.
One of the things about Arrival was that Shep was alone - I know this is to do with him/her having sole responsibility for the destruction of that system, and without any corroborating witnesses, but it also means there was no one with him/her to be able to get indoctrinated...
In fact, Shep should install suit cams to his/her armour; save a lot of bother. It would prove the conversation had with Sovereign, and would also prove what happened during Arrival. The Council did let a geth recording of Saren and Beneziah prove Saren's guilt, after all. If a geth recording offered by a quarian is good enough, the suit cam of a Spectre should be too.
it would be GREAT if we found out that one of your first acts (saving williams and getting touched by the damage beacon) was responsible for this....
#161
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 05:56
Savber100
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Interesting...
Patrick Weekes, one of the writers for ME, tweeted several hours after the creation of this post:
"Sometimes want to tell forum folks, "Bookmark that prediction! You will feel SO SMART eight months from now!""
Seeing how there was no other prediction (story-wise) before this tweet... Hmmm
Patrick Weekes, one of the writers for ME, tweeted several hours after the creation of this post:
"Sometimes want to tell forum folks, "Bookmark that prediction! You will feel SO SMART eight months from now!""
Seeing how there was no other prediction (story-wise) before this tweet... Hmmm
Modifié par Savber100, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:56 .
#162
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:03
DarthSliver
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Savber100 wrote...
Interesting...
Patrick Weekes, one of the writers for ME, tweeted several hours after the creation of this post:
"Sometimes want to tell forum folks, "Bookmark that prediction! You will feel SO SMART eight months from now!""
Seeing how there was no other prediction (story-wise) before this tweet... Hmmm
Yeah i was going to say something after i read this thread lol.
#163
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:05
Dean_the_Young
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I don't think it's really that clever to realize that we don't know the circumstances behind Cerberus's opposition when we, well, don't.
#164
Guest_AwesomeName_*
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:07
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It's probably been mentioned, but....
A well written villain is one who is good from his own point of view. That's all it is. He is a villain... well, as far as my Shepard and most of the galaxy is concerned... It would be pretty crap characterisation if he was evil just for the sake of it.
A well written villain is one who is good from his own point of view. That's all it is. He is a villain... well, as far as my Shepard and most of the galaxy is concerned... It would be pretty crap characterisation if he was evil just for the sake of it.
#165
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:30
hwf
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Well, several theories have been deposited.Dean_the_Young wrote... I don't think it's really that clever to realize that we don't know the circumstances behind Cerberus's opposition when we, well, don't.
The theory that marshalleck deposited (his followup posts should be read as well) felt really good to me predominantly because I'm of the mindset that the Lazarus Project has deeper meaning to the trilogy then just a "level and gameplay reset".
Read marshalleck's posts.
Think of the only surefire way we've seen on how to actually destroy a Reaper at the end of ME1.
Now think what consistently happens during ME2 whenever you run into Collectors.
Chekov's gun?
#166
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 07:46
Dean_the_Young
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You mean the 'Cerberus is after Shepard because Shepard may be indoctrinated?'hwf wrote...
Well, several theories have been deposited.Dean_the_Young wrote... I don't think it's really that clever to realize that we don't know the circumstances behind Cerberus's opposition when we, well, don't.
The theory that marshalleck deposited (his followup posts should be read as well) felt really good to me predominantly because I'm of the mindset that the Lazarus Project has deeper meaning to the trilogy then just a "level and gameplay reset".
Read marshalleck's posts.
Think of the only surefire way we've seen on how to actually destroy a Reaper at the end of ME1.
Now think what consistently happens during ME2 whenever you run into Collectors.
Chekov's gun?
Not to sound to proud, but... I may have been the first person suggesting that possibility back in the day.
Then again, that was back in the day before E3, when Cerberus troops were credited as indoctrinated. Now, that doesn't necessarily invalidate that idea, but it does make it less likely.
#167
Guest_makalathbonagin_*
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 09:52
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little did they know that shep is in fact half- reaper aka build with reaper technology
why would renegade shep have red eyes and creepy cybernetic scars
why would renegade shep have red eyes and creepy cybernetic scars
#168
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 10:57
HTTP 404
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TIM is shepard's father...
has that been said already? well, it must be true then.
has that been said already? well, it must be true then.
#169
Posté 11 juillet 2011 - 11:17
alperez
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I've said this already on this thread and i'll say it again Shepard is not indoctrinated, Cerberus is not after Shepard because Shepard is indoctrinated. It just doesn't make sense that in a trilogy when you get to the final act it would be revealed that for all or part of the time you played you were actually indoctrinated.
The protagonist will be the good guy no matter what, the only change in that would be if you the player decided to play in a different manner, to introduce a Shepard was indoctrinated plot mechanic now would take that out of your hands so they won't go that route.
It may sound cool on paper or a nice plot twist but in reality it diminishes everything you as the player has done. If Shepard was indoctrinated or has been indoctrinated then at some point in the game the actions you took where not you own actions, try selling that one to gamers.
You mean when i destroyed the collector base i was actually working for the reapers, or when i recruited all of those people in me2 i was actually indoctrinated, seriously thats something you think they would suggest in the last act.
Taking Klijpope's idea of Shepard being immune to indoctrination and that being the reason why the reapers have been so interested in him and have not killed Shepard despite having countless opportunities to do so makes much more sense than Shepard being indoctrinated or having been indoctrinated at any point.
I don't doubt that Cerberus may be in orders to kill Shepard because they say Shepard is indoctrinated but this will be down to Cerberus's own indoctrination and basically be a red herring.
People seem to be looking beyond the logical and coming up with the illogical/improbable to explain why in me3 cerberus are out to kill Shepardwhen in all likelihood it will probably be revealed as the most likely reason.
Whatever goals Cerberus started out with over time and with Tim's leadership have been corrupted into a situation where they think what they do is the only way to do things and is whats best for humanity. Bringing back Shepard, working with Shepard in me2 and going after Shepard in me3 is all part of the same thing a reasoning to accomplish their goals.
Whether this is revealed in me3 as cerberus have been gradually indoctrinated right from the moment TIm interacted with the reaper artifact or its revealed as an organisation which has lost the ideals it once set out with will basically have the same outcome, cerberus trying and failing to kill Shepard.
The clues to Tim and by definition cerberus being indoctrinated and acting on that indoctrination have been there all along. Like the collectors who search out particular special traits or genetic anomlies for the reapers, cerberus have experimented with genetics,Biotics etc. the only difference being that Cerberus were supposedly working for humanities benefit.
But an indoctrinated Tim/Cerberus thinking what they were doing was nothing to do with being indoctrinated is actually no different to Saren thinking what he was doing was the best course of action. Indoctrination is funny that way, in some cases its extreme in others its suggestive.
The protagonist will be the good guy no matter what, the only change in that would be if you the player decided to play in a different manner, to introduce a Shepard was indoctrinated plot mechanic now would take that out of your hands so they won't go that route.
It may sound cool on paper or a nice plot twist but in reality it diminishes everything you as the player has done. If Shepard was indoctrinated or has been indoctrinated then at some point in the game the actions you took where not you own actions, try selling that one to gamers.
You mean when i destroyed the collector base i was actually working for the reapers, or when i recruited all of those people in me2 i was actually indoctrinated, seriously thats something you think they would suggest in the last act.
Taking Klijpope's idea of Shepard being immune to indoctrination and that being the reason why the reapers have been so interested in him and have not killed Shepard despite having countless opportunities to do so makes much more sense than Shepard being indoctrinated or having been indoctrinated at any point.
I don't doubt that Cerberus may be in orders to kill Shepard because they say Shepard is indoctrinated but this will be down to Cerberus's own indoctrination and basically be a red herring.
People seem to be looking beyond the logical and coming up with the illogical/improbable to explain why in me3 cerberus are out to kill Shepardwhen in all likelihood it will probably be revealed as the most likely reason.
Whatever goals Cerberus started out with over time and with Tim's leadership have been corrupted into a situation where they think what they do is the only way to do things and is whats best for humanity. Bringing back Shepard, working with Shepard in me2 and going after Shepard in me3 is all part of the same thing a reasoning to accomplish their goals.
Whether this is revealed in me3 as cerberus have been gradually indoctrinated right from the moment TIm interacted with the reaper artifact or its revealed as an organisation which has lost the ideals it once set out with will basically have the same outcome, cerberus trying and failing to kill Shepard.
The clues to Tim and by definition cerberus being indoctrinated and acting on that indoctrination have been there all along. Like the collectors who search out particular special traits or genetic anomlies for the reapers, cerberus have experimented with genetics,Biotics etc. the only difference being that Cerberus were supposedly working for humanities benefit.
But an indoctrinated Tim/Cerberus thinking what they were doing was nothing to do with being indoctrinated is actually no different to Saren thinking what he was doing was the best course of action. Indoctrination is funny that way, in some cases its extreme in others its suggestive.
#170
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 12:14
pablodurando
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I'm on board with your thoughts OP.
TIM has done nothing to incriminate himself as a reaper agent. And I find it hard to believe TIM has been indoctrinated for an extended period of time while not becoming a total husk. I see Cerberus as an organization that believes in the greater good. They just believe that sacrifices must be made to ensure that good. TIM probably knows more about Reapers than anybody in the galaxy he has had over a decade to study them and think of a way to avoid the inevitable. On top of that is his human agenda where he seeks to put humans first in the galaxy. All of Cerberus' experiments can be attributed to those two divisions.
Then comes the awkward link though, Shepard. Shepard, a simple soldier who by chance ended up in the midst of the Reaper invasion plans. After ME1 TIM knew that Shepard was of some value so he brought him back to help. And Shepard did just that. But why is Cerberus after Shepard? This is where I bring up arrival.
Everyone knows the theory that Shepard was indoctrinated throughout Arrival. What if Shepard wasn't indoctrinated until after he was knocked out by Object Rho. By the time he woke up chances are high the seeds of indoctrination were already sown into his mind. But they still weren't powerful enough to actually stop him from destroying the Alpha Relay. Cerberus has pretty much 2-4 months to find out that Shepard is indoctrinated, and with all their agents I find it improbable that they could not get the mission report of Arrival. Now Cerberus knows that Shepard will turn into a Reaper sleeper agent, and with his pull he could prove to be the galaxy's defeat. The only choice they have is to eliminate him, which is why they are after him in ME3. While Shepard is fighting Reapers he is being hunted down. From this vantage point the novels could be brought into the game efficiently. Kai Leng can be sent to hunt down Shepard, Gillian could team up with Shepard as a sort of Jack character who doesn't know the entire truth, and same for Kahlee.
This of course is speculation.
TIM has done nothing to incriminate himself as a reaper agent. And I find it hard to believe TIM has been indoctrinated for an extended period of time while not becoming a total husk. I see Cerberus as an organization that believes in the greater good. They just believe that sacrifices must be made to ensure that good. TIM probably knows more about Reapers than anybody in the galaxy he has had over a decade to study them and think of a way to avoid the inevitable. On top of that is his human agenda where he seeks to put humans first in the galaxy. All of Cerberus' experiments can be attributed to those two divisions.
Then comes the awkward link though, Shepard. Shepard, a simple soldier who by chance ended up in the midst of the Reaper invasion plans. After ME1 TIM knew that Shepard was of some value so he brought him back to help. And Shepard did just that. But why is Cerberus after Shepard? This is where I bring up arrival.
Everyone knows the theory that Shepard was indoctrinated throughout Arrival. What if Shepard wasn't indoctrinated until after he was knocked out by Object Rho. By the time he woke up chances are high the seeds of indoctrination were already sown into his mind. But they still weren't powerful enough to actually stop him from destroying the Alpha Relay. Cerberus has pretty much 2-4 months to find out that Shepard is indoctrinated, and with all their agents I find it improbable that they could not get the mission report of Arrival. Now Cerberus knows that Shepard will turn into a Reaper sleeper agent, and with his pull he could prove to be the galaxy's defeat. The only choice they have is to eliminate him, which is why they are after him in ME3. While Shepard is fighting Reapers he is being hunted down. From this vantage point the novels could be brought into the game efficiently. Kai Leng can be sent to hunt down Shepard, Gillian could team up with Shepard as a sort of Jack character who doesn't know the entire truth, and same for Kahlee.
This of course is speculation.
#171
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 12:37
Perfecti0nist
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I'm going to be seriously disappointed if they make him into a generic villain. Bioware can do better than that.
#172
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 12:51
atheelogos
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Well there is no evil. And I'm guessing that from his point of view letting the Reapers win and make us into them is a good thing.
#173
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 12:55
Stardusk78
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Slayer_22 wrote...
Luigitornado wrote...
I don't think Shepard will be indoctrinated....my bet will be VS.
What is a VS?
Vertical Schlong
#174
Guest_Luc0s_*
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 01:25
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My theory of TIM and Cerberus being indoctrinated is the easiest and I think most of you will agree that this is the best explanation:
TIM is not evil, he's just self-centered and a racist. That said, he still tries to stop the reapers, just like Shepard. When Shepard left Cerberus, TIM didn't give up. He kept searching for an answer on how to destroy the reapers.
After a while, TIM discovers a deux-ex machina object or artifact (Leviathan of Dis?) but Shepard also found a clue of this deux-ex machina artifact.
TIM wouldn't be TIM if he didn't still believe in a pro-human on the top agenda. So TIM wants to defeat the reapers, but while doing so he wants humanity as the new leader of the galaxy, with himself on the top.
Shepard left Cerberus, so TIM lost faith in Shepard and so he's afraid that if Shepard gets his hands on the deus-ex machina artifact, his hopes for domination will be lost.
So TIM sends his troops after Shepard with the very simple order: "Make sure you get that artifact before Shepard does, by all means, kill him if you think it's necessary."
Maybe it will not be EXACTLY like this (maybe we don't need a deus-ex machina in order to defeat the reapers), but I think it's most reasonable to assume that TIM has his own idea of how to stop the reapers and most likely Shepard's plans block TIM's own plans so that means TIM has to get rid of Shepard in order to fulfill his own plan.
TIM is not evil, he's just self-centered and a racist. That said, he still tries to stop the reapers, just like Shepard. When Shepard left Cerberus, TIM didn't give up. He kept searching for an answer on how to destroy the reapers.
After a while, TIM discovers a deux-ex machina object or artifact (Leviathan of Dis?) but Shepard also found a clue of this deux-ex machina artifact.
TIM wouldn't be TIM if he didn't still believe in a pro-human on the top agenda. So TIM wants to defeat the reapers, but while doing so he wants humanity as the new leader of the galaxy, with himself on the top.
Shepard left Cerberus, so TIM lost faith in Shepard and so he's afraid that if Shepard gets his hands on the deus-ex machina artifact, his hopes for domination will be lost.
So TIM sends his troops after Shepard with the very simple order: "Make sure you get that artifact before Shepard does, by all means, kill him if you think it's necessary."
Maybe it will not be EXACTLY like this (maybe we don't need a deus-ex machina in order to defeat the reapers), but I think it's most reasonable to assume that TIM has his own idea of how to stop the reapers and most likely Shepard's plans block TIM's own plans so that means TIM has to get rid of Shepard in order to fulfill his own plan.
Modifié par Luc0s, 12 juillet 2011 - 01:25 .
#175
Posté 12 juillet 2011 - 01:31
Savber100
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Luc0s wrote...
My theory of TIM and Cerberus being indoctrinated is the easiest and I think most of you will agree that this is the best explanation:
TIM is not evil, he's just self-centered and a racist. That said, he still tries to stop the reapers, just like Shepard. When Shepard left Cerberus, TIM didn't give up. He kept searching for an answer on how to destroy the reapers.
After a while, TIM discovers a deux-ex machina object or artifact (Leviathan of Dis?) but Shepard also found a clue of this deux-ex machina artifact.
TIM wouldn't be TIM if he didn't still believe in a pro-human on the top agenda. So TIM wants to defeat the reapers, but while doing so he wants humanity as the new leader of the galaxy, with himself on the top.
Shepard left Cerberus, so TIM lost faith in Shepard and so he's afraid that if Shepard gets his hands on the deus-ex machina artifact, his hopes for domination will be lost.
So TIM sends his troops after Shepard with the very simple order: "Make sure you get that artifact before Shepard does, by all means, kill him if you think it's necessary."
Maybe it will not be EXACTLY like this (maybe we don't need a deus-ex machina in order to defeat the reapers), but I think it's most reasonable to assume that TIM has his own idea of how to stop the reapers and most likely Shepard's plans block TIM's own plans so that means TIM has to get rid of Shepard in order to fulfill his own plan.
So... what happens if I choose to stay with Cerberus and offered my assistance via keeping Collector's Base?
Modifié par Savber100, 12 juillet 2011 - 01:47 .
