327 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Inverness Moon wrote...
If you weren't so ignorant, you'd have read Mass Effect Evolution and know that TIM formed Cerbers becase of the reapers.

You mean those crappy Dark Horse comics? PASS.

I tend to not play with garbage.

[Inverness Moon]

Mightyg wrote...

If you've read the comics, you know TIM has been exposed to reaper indoctrination technology. That alone is justification enough for him being under there influence, especially since the reapers have entered the galaxy. The real question is, if you do the Arrival dlc mission, Shepherd gets exposed to the indoctrination device, do we see our own character become affected during the course of ME3?

If you've been paying attention to every event since Evolution where TIM is featured, you'd know that he has shown no signs of being indoctrinated, and in fact has done the most to combat the reapers other than Shepard himself. For that to suddenly turn on a dime in ME3 would be absurd.

I agree with OP and several others and think BioWare is fooling us by demoing the Cerberus enemies and making us think TIM is the bad guy, only to turn things around at the end. The fact that the whole thing is even a "mystery" is a good indication that it isn't something obviously like indoctrination, which would be terrible writing.

I think BioWare knows that TIM is too good of a character to ruin like that.

Someone With Mass wrote...

You mean those crappy Dark Horse comics? PASS.

I tend to not play with garbage.

If you're not going to inform yourself, then your opinion will continue to be garbage.

Those events are canon, whether you like the comics or not.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 12 juillet 2011 - 06:35 .

[Someone With Mass]

Inverness Moon wrote...
If you're not going to inform yourself, then your opinion will continue to be garbage.

Those events are canon, whether you like the comics or not.

Inform myself about what? That TIM lost his eyes to some Reaper artifact Saren's brother found during the FCW and therefore he created Cerberus because he saw a vision and then everyone tries to tell me that the guy is impervious to indoctrination, even if there's no logical way he can be, because there's absolutely nothing special about him?

I don't need to read some second-rate comic to get that. Hell, I don't even want to. I have seen the previous works about the Dark Horse comics, and they were **** at best.

[Inverness Moon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...
If you're not going to inform yourself, then your opinion will continue to be garbage.

Those events are canon, whether you like the comics or not.

Inform myself about what? That TIM lost his eyes to some Reaper artifact Saren's brother found during the FCW and therefore he created Cerberus because he saw a vision and then everyone tries to tell me that the guy is impervious to indoctrination, even if there's no logical way he can be, because there's absolutely nothing special about him?

Oh good, you've admitted that Cerberus was't created because of the turians like you claimed earlier.

Next, you say there is absolutely nothing special about him, right after you mention how he was exposed to the device and saw a vision. Not to mention the knowledge he apparently gained from that experience and the utter lack of tendencies associated with those who are indoctrinated (quite the opposite in fact).

Finally, TIM is about as impervious to indoctrionation as Shepard is. Take that either way you like.

[Someone With Mass]

Inverness Moon wrote...
Finally, TIM is about as impervious to indoctrionation as Shepard is. Take that either way you like.

And the proof and explenation of this is where, exactly?

Because I call bull**** if some random guy can resist brainwashing without any special traits, when his friends couldn't.

Lazy writing, in other words. 

[CroGamer002]

^Jack Harper seems to have strong will.

Like Shepard.

Modifié par Mesina2, 12 juillet 2011 - 07:38 .

[DarthSliver]

Speaking of Saren, I felt bad for the Turian when he found out he truly had no control and didnt realize it until it was too late. Right before he shot himself I really felt bad for the guy and it was a real epic moment too.

Now back to the topic at hand I will say I am sure Shepard is immuned to indoctrination but s/he is hackable. Maybe the Reapers will just hack Shepard

[CroGamer002]

^Nobody is immune to indoctrination.

Just Shepard ans his/hers crew never were long enough indoctrinated to lose their will even slightly.

[DarthSliver]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Nobody is immune to indoctrination.

Just Shepard ans his/hers crew never were long enough indoctrinated to lose their will even slightly.

But we scene Shepard get hacked, do you think we will see more of that happening in ME3 and not in a good way like Overlord was?

[Weltea]

TIM being a bad guy isn't really in question.HE IS.
And if I remember correctly it was said that Cerberus being indoctrinated was a simplified retelling of events so I'm sure Bioware will have a perfectly good reason for TIM and Cerberus to fight Shepard.
One that is not like Sarens "and they will spare us" thing,nor the sudden snapping like in Arrival nor "we're pissed at you so we will hunt you down and kill you,nevermind that ongoing war"

[tabulius]

Who the hell is TIM?

[Obsidian Gryphon]

tabulius wrote...

Who the hell is TIM?

Maybe he's TMA-1? (in humanoid form)

... (don't mind me, I'm being nutty today)

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 12 juillet 2011 - 01:13 .

[marshalleck]

tabulius wrote...

Who the hell is TIM?

Seriously?

It's an abbreviation for The Illusive Man.

[DonutsDealer]

Wait, wait, TIM wants to bring Shepard back to life just as he was before (the same mind, the same opinions) and for that he uses reapers' technology. That's not very viable I think, specially when TIM knows about indoctrination.

The fact that Cerberus used husk and reaper technology in someone (I haven`t read that book, sorry) doesn't mean they used it in Shepard too.

About the Cerberus indoctrination it is possible, but also fits with what we saw in the demo. Shepard is trying to rally all the races which Cerberus could see as a great threat, from there a bit of indoctrination and there it is, Cerberus indoctrinated.

[Gterror]

 

[alperez]

Looking at a link that Mr. Preistly set up on the news and announcements page regarding 10 things fans must know from the comics and novels.

http://social.biowar...4/index/7829868

When you get to number one its all about the Illusive man, his backstory, history and what role he may play in upcoming events.

http://www.newsarama...3-110707-1.html

Now while some of this is conjecture on behalf of the article writer, i find it interesting that chris has linked it anyway, rather than it being linked by one of us forumites.

But its an interesting read anyway and does seem to indicate that Tim like Saren before him has been indoctrinated for a long time and over time that indoctrination has grown stronger leading us to the present situation of cerberus hunting Shepard.

One other point, Saren's contact originally that led to his eventual indoctrination was around the same time as TIM's contact with the artifact, Saren then over time became even more indoctrinated despite his own attempts to delay/stop it and leading of course to the Paragon interrupt we got in me1.

You could spectulate that TIM has done the same albeit a little more carefully which is why it taken just a bit longer for full indoctrination to take place.

Saren believed what he was doing was for the best and that he wasn't indoctrinated until Shepard basically pointed out he was, While he was falling further and further into indoctrination Saren also did certain actions over the course of time that further added to his rep as a bad ass spectre, actions that may not have been completely in character with the indoctrination he was going through.

There is a parellel there with Tim.

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

Maybe he wants his ship back?

[Inverness Moon]

DonutsDealer wrote...

Shepard is trying to rally all the races which Cerberus could see as a great threat

Except that makes zero sense. TIM is not a fool, he knows the value of having allies to fight the reapers just like Shepard does.

[punchbag]

I have a conspiracy theory for you (not sure if it has been mentioned already, but I'm not reading the entire thread to find out). I don't believe this theory either, it's just for the heck of it:

The reapers assumed direct control of TIM's form some time ago. They brought Shepard back, and they control Cerberus. Their plan was to have Shepard recover their tech from the collector base and bring it back through the Omega-4 relay. This would allow them to create reapers in the Organics universe instead of having to transport them all. Cerberus would build reapers under the guise that it was to learn to destroy them, but really they would build a reaper army that would aid the other reapers who would later be transported through the relay. It's a trap. That's what you get for trusting TIM: fvcked over... and over.

Modifié par punchbag, 12 juillet 2011 - 10:22 .

[Inverness Moon]

punchbag wrote...

I have a conspiracy theory for you (not sure if it has been mentioned already, but I'm not reading the entire thread to find out). I don't believe this theory either, it's just for the heck of it:

The reapers assumed direct control of TIM's form some time ago. They brought Shepard back, and they control Cerberus. Their plan was to have Shepard recover their tech from the collector base and bring it back through the Omega-4 relay. This would allow them to create reapers in the Organics universe instead of having to transport them all. Cerberus would build reapers under the guise that it was to learn to destroy them, but really they would build a reaper army that would aid the other reapers who would later be transported through the relay. It's a trap. That's what you get for trusting TIM: fvcked over... and over.

That just seems like a roundabout way to make saving the collector base out to be the bad choice to me. I'm not going to get into all the other flaws with that.

[The Spamming Troll]

Inverness Moon wrote...

DonutsDealer wrote...

Shepard is trying to rally all the races which Cerberus could see as a great threat

Except that makes zero sense. TIM is not a fool, he knows the value of having allies to fight the reapers just like Shepard does.

TIM might not be a fool, but bioware can do anything it wants with indoctrinated-TIM.

[Inverness Moon]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

DonutsDealer wrote...

Shepard is trying to rally all the races which Cerberus could see as a great threat

Except that makes zero sense. TIM is not a fool, he knows the value of having allies to fight the reapers just like Shepard does.

TIM might not be a fool, but bioware can do anything it wants with indoctrinated-TIM.

I don't think BioWare would ruin the character like that. I'm not going to make any judgements until I have all the facts, which will be when I play the game unless something is spoiled.

The fact that BioWare can do anything it wants when someone is indoctrinated highlights exactly why indoctrination was only a good plot device when it was used for the first time on Saren. After that it just becomes bad writing since you don't need worry about proper motivation for what people are doing or whether or not what they're doing makes sense, because hey they're indoctrinated.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 13 juillet 2011 - 02:42 .

[punchbag]

Inverness Moon wrote...

punchbag wrote...

I have a conspiracy theory for you (not sure if it has been mentioned already, but I'm not reading the entire thread to find out). I don't believe this theory either, it's just for the heck of it:

The reapers assumed direct control of TIM's form some time ago. They brought Shepard back, and they control Cerberus. Their plan was to have Shepard recover their tech from the collector base and bring it back through the Omega-4 relay. This would allow them to create reapers in the Organics universe instead of having to transport them all. Cerberus would build reapers under the guise that it was to learn to destroy them, but really they would build a reaper army that would aid the other reapers who would later be transported through the relay. It's a trap. That's what you get for trusting TIM: fvcked over... and over.

That just seems like a roundabout way to make saving the collector base out to be the bad choice to me. I'm not going to get into all the other flaws with that.

That was the point: a ridiculous ramble to take the 'base savers' on an irrational guilt trip.

Modifié par punchbag, 13 juillet 2011 - 06:07 .