43 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

David Gaider wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 I'm just scared we'll spend a lot of time theorycrafting only to find out it was nothing. 

You're trying to read too much into it. The explanation much simpler.

Plus, how is spending time theorycrafting time wasted?  :D:D

[bankomat0r]

Was it ever stated to be fact that the Wardens were founded during the first Blight, or could it be just an assumption made by people outside the order? Also, is it fact that the first blight started right after the creation of darkspawn?

[Rifneno]

David Gaider wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 I'm just scared we'll spend a lot of time theorycrafting only to find out it was nothing. 

You're trying to read too much into it. The explanation much simpler.

Ahh.  Thanks.  Occam's Razor.  Hopefully Merrill won't cut herself with it.

bankomat0r wrote...

Was it ever stated to be fact that the Wardens were founded during the first Blight, or could it be just an assumption made by people outside the order? Also, is it fact that the first blight started right after the creation of darkspawn?

From what the codexes tell us, the Wardens were founded in -305 Ancient (or 890 TE), 90 years into the First Blight.  For reference, both games begin at 2025 TE.  So the Wardens are 1,135 years old if records are accurate.  Records of the darkspawn's first appearance is sketchier.  According to the Chantry (and humans in general), they appeared at the First Blight.  The dwarves dispute this, or at least some do.  They don't have any explanation for what the darkspawn are or where they came from, but... well, here's a codex to explain it better than I can:

The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage.

At first they were few, easily hunted and slain by our warriors. But in the recesses of the Deep Roads, they grew in numbers and in courage. Our distant thaigs came under attack, and now it was the army, not a few warriors, being sent to deal with the creatures. Victories still came easily, though, and we thought the threat would soon be over.

We were wrong.

--As told by Shaper Czibor.

[LobselVith8]

Rifneno wrote...

Ahh.  Thanks.  Occam's Razor.  Hopefully Merrill won't cut herself with it.

Hopefully, Merrill won't be one of the few proactive characters this time. I'm still hoping for a proactive Hawke in this DLC, one who uses his brain instead of being handed the idiot ball by the writers.

[Rifneno]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hopefully, Merrill won't be one of the few proactive characters this time. I'm still hoping for a proactive Hawke in this DLC, one who uses his brain instead of being handed the idiot ball by the writers.

I think the reason Hawke was so reactive is because the story was written assuming Hawke just wants to live his life and mind his own business rather than gallivanting about righting wrongs, which is what we as players were expecting to do. Two short banters with party members really gave me that notion. The first was with Anders in Act II and a friendly but not romanced Hawke. Anders mentioned the coming revolution and humorous Hawke replied (paraphrasing obviously) that he doesn't mean to start something big, this crap just keeps falling in his lap. The second was one with Varric where Varric asks Hawke what his plans are. The four options are, a) taking care of my family, getting a noble title, c) getting involved in politics, d) starting a business. None of the options are grand adventures involving fighting superabominations or toppling empires. That's what we see our characters doing because that's how video games go. But Hawke was written just wanting to live his life. In fact none of his options involve combat at all.

Perhaps it was a mistake on the writer's part to not give us the option to have Hawke's ambitions different. But I can see where they're coming from, and while I understand the frustration a lot of people have with a reactive hero, I think the commonly held belief that Hawke is just a ******(copyright Red Foreman) because most people don't understand Hawke just wants to live in peace and quiet.

[TEWR]

David Gaider wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 I'm just scared we'll spend a lot of time theorycrafting only to find out it was nothing. 

You're trying to read too much into it. The explanation much simpler.

because you have the explanation


We're sitting here festering in our madness trying to think of what the explanation is, waiting in agony for that beloved July 26 to come so we can regain some semblance of our sanity.

*goes off to play Alice: Madness Returns*

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:47 .

[WhiteKnyght]

David Gaider wrote...

Can you tell us why the achievement is named The Conductor though?

I'm not certain. I don't create achievements. Possibly it has to do with the definition of a corypheus ( "the conductor, chief, or leader of the dramatic chorus"). Possibly it's to let people go on about what a terrible name Conductor is, even though we've never said it's anyone's name. Possibly it's to drive fans crazy.

These all sound good to me.

Well considering you named an intelligent, talking darkspawn as "The Architect" its a pretty safe assumption that you could follow the trend.

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Ahh.  Thanks.  Occam's Razor.  Hopefully Merrill won't cut herself with it.

Hopefully, Merrill won't be one of the few proactive characters this time. I'm still hoping for a proactive Hawke in this DLC, one who uses his brain instead of being handed the idiot ball by the writers.

Dont count on it =P

[aries1001]

As I see, there could be much truth in the theory that Hawke just want to be left in peace, but then something happens, and she needs to 'fullfill her destiny' or as we say in Danish 'thread into character.' meaning that life happens around her. She needs to 'pick up the sword' in both a symbolical and concrete way....

This goes directly to Joseph Campbell and his work on mythology where he identifed the hero with a thousand faces, and the hero's journey. And I can certainly see this happening in DA2's story - Hawke flees the city, her home in Lothering destroyed, then something just keeps happening that gets her involved in all this 'crap' - as she mentions it. And suddenly she is involved in something bigger.

The same goes for the story in Star Wars:
In episode 3, (which was the first one shown) you have a young person, unaware of his own greatness, who just wants to live in peace. then something happens, his home is destroyed and suddenly, he is unadvertently involved in something much bigger...

----

As for the linked text about dwarves and darkspawn, it does say 'creatures of our own likeness'. I guess this means that the dwarves in the deep roads experienced that the first darkspawn looked similar or exactly like dwarves...

Isn't red lyrium known to make people not quite right in the head? Is it the red lyrium that acts as the conductor?

[Ashanasu]

I dislike gratuitous ambiguity...

But Bioware seems to think it adds to DA somehow

[TEWR]

XxDeonxX wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Ahh.  Thanks.  Occam's Razor.  Hopefully Merrill won't cut herself with it.

Hopefully, Merrill won't be one of the few proactive characters this time. I'm still hoping for a proactive Hawke in this DLC, one who uses his brain instead of being handed the idiot ball by the writers.

Dont count on it =P

Actually Luke Barrett confirmed that Hawke gets to make some pretty important choices in Legacy that will be addressed in the future, meaning that he won't be pigeonholed into one set outcome.

[Harid]

It's DLC. The choices you make can't truly be all that large.

[TEWR]

Avernus' fate was pretty large, as what he discovered has alarming implications and caused someone to move against the Wardens.

[Harid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Avernus' fate was pretty large, as what he discovered has alarming implications and caused someone to move against the Wardens.

One tiny subquest that you never hear of again in like Act 1 is not large and sweeping change or implications.

The Power of Blood spec wasn't even carried over to Wardens.

[TEWR]

Take the first boat from Amaranthine to Kirkwall, then proceed with all haste to Weisshaupt Fortress. If the roads prove too perilous or blocked, our agent in Kirkwall can assist. Find the dead drop located in an alleyway near the Lowtown foundries during daylight hours. Protect the letters at all costs.

Warden-Commander of Ferelden

If Avernus was told to continue with his research ethically...

The limitations put upon my research have greatly hampered progress. With just a few subjects, I could test certain critical hypotheses. However, the information sent about the Architect has proven invaluable to my efforts, and I am pleased to report limited success. As the Architect surmised, considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. When properly prepared, its effects can be remarkable.

But my research has also revealed some alarming implications, which I've attached in the old Acanthan cipher. I urge you to send this to the First Warden at once.

I will conduct further tests as long as I'm able. My documentation is very thorough—if time finally claims me, others may follow in my footsteps.

Avernus

If Avernus could continue without restrictions...

The last shipment was quite helpful for my research, Commander. If you could double the supply next time, it would prove most efficacious. Additionally, the information regarding the Architect has proven invaluable—we have made several breakthroughs recently. As the Architect surmised, considerable untapped power exists within Grey Warden blood. When properly prepared, its effects can be remarkable.

But my research has also revealed some alarming implications, which I've attached in the old Acanthan cipher. I urge you to send this to the First Warden at once.

I will conduct further tests as long as I'm able. My documentation is very thorough—if time finally claims me, others may follow in my footsteps.

Avernus

I'd say that's quite major considering he was researching how to refine the Joining ritual prior to the Warden's entry into Soldier's Peak.

The taint allows us to sense the darkspawn. The longer we survive with the taint in our blood, the more potent it becomes. Unfortunately, this corruption will eventually overwhelm the Warden; over time, it devours both mind and body, leaving nothing. But what if the spread of the corruption could be stopped, or contained in some way? What if the Warden could become more powerful, without having that power kill him? How great would that power be? Would it be enough to stop the demons?

The Joining ritual is crude. We take into ourself the blood of the darkspawn in the most obvious way. Most die from the corruption immediately; it is, after all, poison. There must be some way to refine the Joining. Isolate the true power that is found in darkspawn blood, and leave behind the evil that kills us.

I can feel the corruption starting to take its toll on my body. I must not succumb. There is too much work to be done. Through my magic I've been able to slow its inevitable spread, but not stop it completely. I am starting to hear things, even while awake: A voice--more beautiful than any other--that calls to me from the depths. In my dreams, I see the Black City, and I am drawn towards it. There is something there, an answer to what this taint is, this taint that we share with the darkspawn...

--From the notes of Avernus.

And considering the bandits were hired by someone, as their dialogue indicates, someone is moving against the Wardens.

Their dialogue was something along the lines of "If those letters reach the Wardens, it'll be our hides!"

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 19 juillet 2011 - 03:48 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

With the dlc and seeing the latest game play and the exchange between Varric and Cassandra, this is the chantry moving againt the wardens. Which does not surprise me. This is my guess. I would think with Leliana being the Divine's right hand, she'd stick up for the wardens. Maybe not with her being a religious nut.

I can also see Anora's hand in this if you dispose her from her throne.  I can also see Nathaniel Howe involved with Anora.  I never liked that we never knew if Anora was executed and what Alistair did with her if he became King and not married to her.

Anora should have been executed right along with her father in my opinion.

If Loghain is alive and in Orlai I can see him causing trouble for the wardens in Ferelden with wardens in Orlai. 

Was Stroud from Orlai?  I don't recall but from his voice, I thought he was.  Why wasn't Stroud with Nathaniel Howe in the Deep Roads?  I found this to be a great mystery and also not with Alistair if he is a warden. 

I'd imagine most players who have Warden's Keep drank Averness potion for the blood spec.  Does this have something to do with an alive warden being missing?

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 19 juillet 2011 - 05:57 .

[TEWR]

I thought of that a few weeks ago, but I'm wondering why they would decide to move against the Wardens.


Could it have something to do with how the Warden involved himself in politics, something the Wardens outside of the Anderfels haven't done for centuries since the Third Blight where IIRC the Wardens were negotiators in forging a needed alliance against the Darkspawn?

That's my guess anyway.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I thought of that a few weeks ago, but I'm wondering why they would decide to move against the Wardens.


Could it have something to do with how the Warden involved himself in politics, something the Wardens outside of the Anderfels haven't done for centuries since the Third Blight where IIRC the Wardens were negotiators in forging a needed alliance against the Darkspawn?

That's my guess anyway.

I can see the chantry moving against the wardens because of Anders, but not all wardens allowed him into the order.  So it has to be something else and what the wardens know about darkspawn.    There is also the hint that wardens themselves turn into darkspawn during their calling.   If the chantry finds this out, they will go after the wardens and the use of the joining ritual being a blood magic ritual.  Which in a way doesn't make sense because the Circle of Magi prepared the joining ritual for the wardens at Ostagar but not at Vigil's keep.  I never understood why Varel did the joining and not your warden.  This never made sense to me.  Varel was also in the employ of Howe even though Varel was against Howe's decisions to kill the Couslands.

Anora also knew about the joining ritual at the landsmeet and the joining was susposed to be a secret and Loghain started the rumor that wardens worship the arch demon.  This you hear from the bartender in Denerim, I'm not positive on this but I remember this conversation somewhere in Origins. Empress Celene was angry for the Loghain not allowing her Orlai wardens with their soldiers of Chevelairs (sp) into Ferelden to help with the blight. 

Loghain never liked the wardens from the beginning, we know this from the Calling when Maric had to sneak away and go with the Wardens on their expedition into the deep roads.  We never really knew why Loghain ever liked the wardens, even Duncan?  Why not?

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:15 .