11 réponses à ce sujet

[InkognitoY]

 I was having the conversation on Ilos with Vigil when he said something along the lines of, "information is power, and they [the Reapers] new everything about us." 

I for one agree with this statement. However a short while after, I asked Vigil, "Why do the Reapers repeat this pattern of genocide?" only to get the response, "We do not know, but in the end what does it matter, your survival depends on destroying them, not in understanding them." 

That confused me for two reasons, first off, Vigil just contradicted himself, and secondly, isn't the first step in destroying your enemies understanding them? How they work, think, behave, etc? 

Just wanted to get your guy's opinion on this, oh, and I'm brand new to these forums so Hi  

[Missouri Tigers]

He never really contradicted himself. The Reapers had info about the Protheans, but the Protheans had no info on the Reapers. To beat bad guys, understanding sometimes is the first step. But really in Mass Effect we understand only what the Reapers are doing, not why. We don't need to know their motivations to destroy them.

[InkognitoY]

Missouri Tigers wrote...

He never really contradicted himself. The Reapers had info about the Protheans, but the Protheans had no info on the Reapers. To beat bad guys, understanding sometimes is the first step. But really in Mass Effect we understand only what the Reapers are doing, not why. We don't need to know their motivations to destroy them.

True enough. I think my qualm came mostly from a personal desire to understand why the Reapers do what they do, and also who made them. 

[Prince Keldar]

I agree with Missouri, we understand what they are doing. Through ME1 and 2 we have successfully stopped their plans to enter the galaxy by stopping Saren and destroying the relay (arrival). So now they have only one way to enter the galaxy.

Basically we don't have to understand why they are attacking but how they are attacking. I think that is what Vigil means.

I also agree with Inkognito.......I am sure we will get the answers to those questions in ME3. I am also curious.

[Quething]

InkognitoY wrote...

That confused me for two reasons, first off, Vigil just contradicted himself, and secondly, isn't the first step in destroying your enemies understanding them? How they work, think, behave, etc? 

Just wanted to get your guy's opinion on this, oh, and I'm brand new to these forums so Hi

No, you're right. It's just poor writing to try to obfuscate the fact that (at least in ME1) there wasn't, actually, any reason why the Reapers did what they do, and their behavior didn't bear up under any scrutiny - my overwhelming impression is that saying "it doesn't matter" is supposed to encourage you not to look too deeply into it and notice that it doesn't make sense (and indeed there's been a bit of subtle soft retconning already in ME2 to make the cycle more coherent). Certainly it's fair odds that the ultimate solution to the Reapers in ME3 will be a result of some new insight into their history and motives, so Vigil claiming there's no point is liable to be de facto wrong as well as philosophically. "Unfortuntely, we were never able to discover that. Thus we can only work from the knowledge we have, the knowledge that they are coming through the Citadel and will destroy all organic life if you do not act" would have been a better response.

Modifié par Quething, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:28 .

[Prince Keldar]

Quething wrote...

InkognitoY wrote...

That confused me for two reasons, first off, Vigil just contradicted himself, and secondly, isn't the first step in destroying your enemies understanding them? How they work, think, behave, etc? 

Just wanted to get your guy's opinion on this, oh, and I'm brand new to these forums so Hi

No, you're right. It's just poor writing to try to obfuscate the fact that (at least in ME1) there wasn't, actually, any reason why the Reapers did what they do, and their behavior didn't bear up under any scrutiny - my overwhelming impression is that saying "it doesn't matter" is supposed to encourage you not to look too deeply into it and notice that it doesn't make sense (and indeed there's been a bit of subtle soft retconning already in ME2 to make the cycle more coherent). Certainly it's fair odds that the ultimate solution to the Reapers in ME3 will be a result of some new insight into their history and motives, so Vigil claiming there's no point is liable to be de facto wrong as well as philosophically. "Unfortuntely, we were never able to discover that. Thus we can only work from the knowledge we have, the knowledge that they are coming through the Citadel and will destroy all organic life if you do not act" would have been a better response.

I agree, but I don't think it is necessarily poor writing, It's more like we don't have to know their motivations but instead know what they plan to do.  As I said before, since we stopped them at the battle of the Citadel and then stopped them in Arrival, they only have one course of action, they have to come into the galaxy without using a relay.  Ultimately I think that is what vigil was saying.

Modifié par Prince Keldar, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:14 .

[InkognitoY]

@Quething, what is the retconning that happens in ME2?

Personally I think that since the reapers are machines, somebody had to build them, but then the machines rebelled against their makers (keepers?) and defeated them. Realizing that organic life would always try to destroy AI, the Reapers decided to exact some form of revenge by destroying all organic life every 50,000 years.

I hope it's a lot more complex than that, but that's just my theory that I made up on the spot.

[The Grey Ranger]

Something to consider is that Vigil might not really be an AI, but a very advanced VI. So his comments would be due to a programming issue instead of a logic fault. It's also possible that the prothean mind set is alien to human logic.

[InkognitoY]

@Nyoka (sorry for not doing a proper quote, but I'm on my phone and quoting is difficult). I suppose you are correct, and I think my complaint came from my innate need to know as much as possible about everything.

[Zulu_DFA]

Vigil was a bad guy. (A theory.)