38 réponses à ce sujet

[HSHAW]

People like myself who kept the anvil of the void? will it be retconned into we all destroyed it? or will the issue be dodged entirely?

[DRTJR]

Shale's continued existance is a threat to the Pigeons of Thedas!

[Marduksdragon]

You owe me a drink, sir. I just laughed and spilled my tea in my lap.

[Nerevar-as]

Filament wrote...

You mean, more specifically, for people who killed Shale? Because you can keep the Anvil of the Void and keep Shale alive by not taking her along and lying to her about it, or telling her the truth and then letting her leave (though in that case, it seems unlikely she would be traveling with Wynne).

If you're referring to the book which will feature Wynne and Shale, David Gaider said books by necessity need to establish a book canon, but that doesn't override your game choices. As far as the game is concerned, your dead Shale is still dead. For now, at least...

5 years from now Crisis in the Infinite Thedas. I´m afraid this is just the second step to have a game canon (1st was Leliana).

[Bullets McDeath]

Also, it's not entirely inconceivable that Shale survived if you killed her. Sort of like Leliana dying near the Urn, Shale being a Golem makes any possible resurrection a little less suspect. So, if you did kill Shale but you want to read the new DA novel in light of your personal canon, I'd go with that.

[Big I]

Filament wrote...

You mean, more specifically, for people who killed Shale? Because you can keep the Anvil of the Void and keep Shale alive by not taking her along and lying to her about it, or telling her the truth and then letting her leave (though in that case, it seems unlikely she would be traveling with Wynne).

If you're referring to the book which will feature Wynne and Shale, David Gaider said books by necessity need to establish a book canon, but that doesn't override your game choices. As far as the game is concerned, your dead Shale is still dead. For now, at least...

WTH? Why even use Shale, or any character that can die in the first place?


Let's say that Shale is integral to the plot - she kills/saves someone of central importance, for instance. If I have an import where Shale died at the Anvil, does that mean the event so of the book didn't happen in my playthrough?


Also, it's possible to keep the Anvil, tell Shale the truth, and keep her as a companion. Just tell her how golems are made.

[Mr.House]

Why would anyone kill Shale in the first place? O_o

[SkittlesKat96]

David Gaider said that the books have there own canon that is just there so they can stories they other wise wouldn't be able to tell.

Same with the Mass Effect movie. If they end up making the Mass Effect movie about Shepard (sort of hoping they won't) then the movie will have its own Shepard canon which has nothing to do with the game...its just telling the story in a different medium.

So basically if you killed Shale then yeah he's dead, the book can't override that and Bioware tries hard not to override peoples choices (they kind of did override our choice of killing Leliana but that's easily retconnable...hope they don't do stuff like that again though)

[Giubba]

HSHAW wrote...

People like myself who kept the anvil of the void? will it be retconned into we all destroyed it? or will the issue be dodged entirely?

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

Modifié par Giubba1985, 12 juillet 2011 - 01:58 .

[Icy Magebane]

It means that Bioware doesn't give a damn about our decisions... but you already knew that, right? I gave up on this franchise having any kind of integrity when they brought back Leliana because she was popular... DA will never be the series I thought it would be, it's as simple as that.

If you don't expect much from this franchise, you won't be disappointed... It will never rise to the level of Mass Effect for the simple fact that the writers care more about their story than the choices we make. They give us options, and with those options, the promise of alternate realities, but they refuse to live up to that. Instead, they take the easy route. You get dead characters resurrected with little or no explanation, and a sequel devoid of any choices that could alter the future in a significant way. I don't blame them for doing things in the simplest way possible, but I do blame them for not letting me know in advance. I guess now that DA2 has come and gone, we know what to expect from this series in the future.

[Morroian]

Icy Magebane wrote...

It means that Bioware doesn't give a damn about our decisions... but you already knew that, right?

Oh please, you realise Shale is appearing in a book not the game?

Icy Magebane wrote...

If you don't expect much from this franchise, you won't be disappointed... It will never rise to the level of Mass Effect for

Its already quite a bit beyond mass effect due to the better writing, role playing and combat.

[Icy Magebane]

LOL... yeah ok Morroian... you keep thinking DA is a better franchise.

Edit:  Also, Shale appearing in a book implies that what we did in the game didn't happen... and I'm sure I'm not the only person who came to this conclusion.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 13 juillet 2011 - 06:20 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

The "it's only a book" argument doesn't really work after the Ultimate Sacrifice > Awakening fiasco, which was made worse by the fact that the expansion actually had the much wanted new blank slate character... it just wasn't there for those who needed it.

Both series have their faults as far as the plot and choices go, but I too feel that Mass Effect has the edge right now.

[TEWR]

The book has its own canon, in that if you didn't kill Shale and Wynne in your game, it applies to your game canon. If you did kill them, then it doesn't. Simple as that.


Book canon and game canon are different things. But people would rather have David Gaider write various versions of the book so that they feel satisfied.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 juillet 2011 - 06:34 .

[Icy Magebane]

Actually, I would prefer if characters important to the series were not presented as expendable in games. I realize that this isn't "my" story, but if I kill somebody and they show up in a game or a book or whatever sometime down the road, I'm going to be wondering what happened...

Anyway, I am just making a point about decisions not mattering... call me cynical, but I think that Shale will return DA3 or some other game... the same way Leliana and Anders did.

[Rifneno]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Both series have their faults as far as the plot and choices go, but I too feel that Mass Effect has the edge right now.

Ditto. When DA3 comes, I'll certainly buy it but I won't be biting my nails in anticipation. ME3 has me counting the seconds. And I don't even like shooters. ... Which makes me wonder why I never go to the ME boards. =/

I think one of the biggest problems DA has suffered is that the writers got kind of stuck on the fact players in DAO were a lot more sympathetic to the mages than they anticipated and rather than just let it go they decided to make the sequel about the conflict. Or at least that's the impression I got. Then again, every series has a stinker given enough time. If you ask most of the Final Fantasy fans I know about XIII, they'll punch you in the face. Maybe DA just got its obligatory "meh, what was that?!" game out of the way early.

[Harid]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Actually, I would prefer if characters important to the series were not presented as expendable in games. I realize that this isn't "my" story, but if I kill somebody and they show up in a game or a book or whatever sometime down the road, I'm going to be wondering what happened...

Anyway, I am just making a point about decisions not mattering... call me cynical, but I think that Shale will return DA3 or some other game... the same way Leliana and Anders did.

I don't know why they didn't just let them walk off like companions do in BG if you ****** them off through their decisions.

I kinda feel like if you are anticipating making a sequel, then characters should not be killable that they plan on using in that sequel whatsoever.

[Morroian]

Icy Magebane wrote...

LOL... yeah ok Morroian... you keep thinking DA is a better franchise.

Edit:  Also, Shale appearing in a book implies that what we did in the game didn't happen... and I'm sure I'm not the only person who came to this conclusion.

I've got multiple play throughs of both DAO and DA2 so which is the real one?

[Icy Magebane]

@Morroian: The one that Bioware says is real when you play DA2. How do you not understand this? It's pretty simple... you killed Leliana or simply left her to die in Lothering? She's alive in DA2 regardless. You gave Anders to the Templars? He still became a Grey Warden. What don't you understand? Bioware has a story in mind and they are going to tell it. This series isn't about seeing the outcomes of wildly divergent realities, it's about experiencing the story of "Dragon Age" as told by the writers.

As I said, this isn't what I expected, but there it is... based on the track record of this series, I think it's a safe assumption that Shale will return in a future title. If I'm wrong, then that's a good thing, but I see no reason to believe otherwise, given the evidence.

[Plaintiff]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Actually, I would prefer if characters important to the series were not presented as expendable in games. I realize that this isn't "my" story, but if I kill somebody and they show up in a game or a book or whatever sometime down the road, I'm going to be wondering what happened...

Anyway, I am just making a point about decisions not mattering... call me cynical, but I think that Shale will return DA3 or some other game... the same way Leliana and Anders did.

Except we're not talking about the series, the books are not part of the series, they are a separate product in the franchise; an optional purchase meant to bring attention to the games while simultaneously profitting from those who already own them. There is nothing to suggest book influences the game in any way. Indeed, if it's anything like the other books, it will deal mostly with characters who will not be appearing in the games, dealing with events that are largely irrelevent. David Gaider is just offering an alternate reality, a what-if scenario that may or may not line up with decisions available in-game, it's not overwriting anything.

[Icy Magebane]

@Plaintiff: That's true, but I stand by my statements. Given the history of DA, I see no reason to believe that Shale won't be returning in future games given her popularity. I'm not the one who set the precedent... I'm just taking anything that happens in DA games with a grain of salt, since I know for a fact that whatever I do may or may not matter. There's too much evidence in favor of future retcons to simply ignore. If I'm wrong, then that's a good thing, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[sephiroth199127]

I doubt major decisions like that can be retconned however leliana is still about, I stand by that she's a witch. It will be ignored like alot of decisions and will be simple mentioned.

[LobselVith8]

Rifneno wrote...

I think one of the biggest problems DA has suffered is that the writers got kind of stuck on the fact players in DAO were a lot more sympathetic to the mages than they anticipated and rather than just let it go they decided to make the sequel about the conflict. Or at least that's the impression I got. Then again, every series has a stinker given enough time. If you ask most of the Final Fantasy fans I know about XIII, they'll punch you in the face. Maybe DA just got its obligatory "meh, what was that?!" game out of the way early.

The problem is the conflict was poorly done. We had insane Starkhaven Circle mages like Decimus and Quentin, and sadistic templars like Ser Alrik and Ser Kerras, and two antagonists from both sides who decided that acting like utter morons at the conclusion of the storyline in a poor attempt to make things seem morally complex when they were anything but. I don't even understand why they created a war between the templars and the mages when players will never be allowed to decide the outcome of the conflict, since they will never accomodate both versions for every future sequel.